Unknown250
Member
posted 12-05-08 00:18 AM EDT (US)
So I have no idea how practical or achievable this is, but I felt like just talking about it since I think it's a cool idea.
I was thinking about how cool it would be if we were to do some sort of PBEM campaign where we went through all the dev-made scenarios that came with the game, in chronological order (so beginning with Blood Isles), with each player assigned to a different race. Each player represents this race throughout the campaign, and joins in on every map that there race is represented on. This means that whoever plays Humans, Elves, Halflings, Goblins, etc, will get a whole bunch of games, while those who play Highmen, Lizards, etc, will play fairly rarely. After each game, races will be given points depending on its outcome - the race with the most points at the end (or whenever everyone calls it quits) would be declared the dominant faction of the Valley of Wonders. Larger maps might be glossed over to save time (i.e. After the Fall, Oracle's Eye) - unless there is a large demand to do those maps. I'll admit that After the Fall would be a lot of fun in this kind of context, but it might just bog things down too much.
Players could even conduct diplomacy outside of games - for example, perhaps the Elves would want to form a consistent alliance with the Halflings, so that they always go into maps with the expectation that they will ally with one another. This could even see factions arise - the Elves, Halflings and Dwarves band together, only to be matched by an alliance of Dark Elves, Orcs and Goblins. However, the treacherous Goblins abandon their masters to join the more promising Human-Azrac coalition. Perhaps rivalries between factions could erupt - the Undead form an alliance with the Dark Elves in game, but refuse to join their faction outside of the game, so the Dark Elves issue a "join or die" ultimatum. Or let it slide. Who knows?
I'm aware that having twelve commited players to do this is unlikely, so we would probably cut out races starting with the least present. Also the scoring system introduced would have to make sure that races are balanced depending on how present they are (perhaps + x points for victory and - x points for defeat? That way races who are in almost every map would have a higher chance at getting more points, but also a higher chance of losing some). Anyway, what do you think? Is it plausible? Or just a pipe dream?
TuoDrable
Member
posted 03-14-09 04:04 PM
EDT (US)
97 / 299
Hmm, I'm reading the story somehow and see what scenarios are linked. In every scenario it's possible to play every race of course... except in Igors Folly, where the undead is just left independent. So weird...
TuoDrable
Member
posted 03-15-09 07:03 AM
EDT (US)
100 / 299
That would be good indeed, But don't make 'em too powerful, the story says Igor gets defeated...
Enginerd
HG Angel
posted 03-15-09 12:52 PM
EDT (US)
103 / 299
I've never played a pbem game with 12 players before.... is that what we'd have with After the Fall? What fun, I'd recommend starting it sooner rather than later, with 11-12 players you'll be lucky to get a two turns a month, I'd also recommend changing the turn order (which is a real pain) so we don't bounce back and forth overseas, anything to make it go faster.
-------------------
Cult of Storms is open
Goblins will have to look into that....
Humans under the protection of the Keepers but not part of their alliance... Silly Humans, they should have thought twice before they did that, it will only bring them trouble... we don't trust the Keepers!
TuoDrable
Member
posted 03-15-09 02:52 PM
EDT (US)
104 / 299
Death Whisper:
Blow the horn... it will solve all your problems...
Enginerd
HG Angel
posted 03-17-09 04:36 PM
EDT (US)
106 / 299
You can... but it's painful.... you have to change the players one at a time in the editor... If you want Orcs first then set Player 1 to Orcs. then you have to make sure you get all the units changed over to the appropriate race as the editor isn't smart enough to do that automatically so you have to click on on the starting structures/units and make sure they are still the correct ones. Then you have to make sure the sphere picks are set up... and so on... it's a major pain.
Slipkyes
Member
posted 03-26-09 11:31 AM
EDT (US)
112 / 299
After so long of destroying elvenkind we have seen the truth and realized it was the dark elves who provoked this bloodshed, therefore we join the elves and their keepers in their battle against these hatred-filled, serpent tongued race of "Immortals". We'll put their name to the test. (300 sample :-).
We may not be worthy of joining the keepers but we will fight by their side and offer protection as they offer us their own. As we see the tricky lizardkind has fallen in treaties with the dark elves, we hope the other neutral races will see the light and join the truly good men in battle
Unknown250
Member
posted 06-18-09 02:31 AM
EDT (US)
113 / 299
Hey everyone, sorry for disappearing, but real life happened. I've been working away to try and find a good formula to match the scoring. Basically the idea is that we want it to be fair and even between different sides. Since some races are present on nearly every map and others are barely around, we don't want it working in a way that it's impossible for the more present races to lose.
What I was considering for the points system was one base point and then adding one point in the order that they were eliminated in.
So let's say we had a five player map (like Rocky Hollow). Let's say that as a result of their vendetta, the Dark Elves and Orcs ganged up to beat the Humans first, to make sure the Humans get the least amount of points. While they're doing this, the Undead sweep in and attack both, eliminating the Dark Elves. While the Undead battle the Orcs, the Frostlings slip in and conquer the Undead territory. Pinned between two enemies, the Undead don't last long and the battle-weakened Orcs are no match for the Frostling hordes.
So in this situation, the scores would be:
Humans = 1
Dark Elves = 2
Undead = 3
Orcs = 4
Frostlings = 5
If two or more allied races come in first, the points are evenly distributed between them. So in the above example, if the Dark Elves and Orcs had been successful and defeated the Humans, then the Undead and finally the Frostlings, both DE and Orcs would receive 2.5 points (the 5 pot divided by 2), while the Undead would have come in fourth and received two points, and the Frostlings would have come in third and received 3 points, still coming out on top. Sharing the spoils is the price of alliances.
This results in two advantages that I can see:
1. Battle scales are accurately related into scores. A minor skirmish off in the mountains between Halflings and Goblins would only result in 2 points for the victor, a miniscule gain. However, defeating 7 other races to establish a new nation along a highly fertile river would result in a significant 8 points for the winner
2. Allows for more interesting diplomacy. If the Humans are at open war with the Dark Elves and Orcs outside of the game (using the above example, yet again), they're going to want to negotiate their butts off with the Frostlings and Undead to keep from getting the floor mopped with their armies. Additionally, it leaves the question: Can the Orcs and Dark Elves stay allied? Or would greed cause one of them to try and go for the whole pot? I especially like the division of points between allied players because it helps to prevent the formation of unrealistically large alliances.
I'm trying to think of a good way to balance out the races, though. I'm wondering if perhaps each race should have the number of games played subtracted from their total?
Unknown250
Member
posted 06-18-09 02:36 AM
EDT (US)
114 / 299
For those of you who are interested, I had another formula for scoring worked out. It was 1 base point, divided by the position the player came in, multiplied by the number of players on the map. So in the example used above:
Humans: 1/5*5 = 1
Dark Elves: 1/4*5 = 1.25
Undead: 1/3*5 = 1.66
Orcs: 1/2*5 = 2.5
Frostlings: 1/1*5 = 5
I thought I'd include that for interest's sake. I decided I preferred the system in my above post, because it was simpler and I feel that this one provides perhaps too great of an advantage to the first place player, not to mention almost no distinction between the lesser players. While that might be more realistic (history doesn't really remember second last any more than it remembers last) it might not be more fun. Besides, this one would probably end up with a whole load of decimals.
But if anyone wants to work around with it a bit and see what they can come up with, be my guest.
Unknown250
Member
posted 06-18-09 11:55 PM
EDT (US)
117 / 299
Deroman and Pawel, I want to thank you both for all the amazing work you've put into this so far. I'd like to play as the Highmen, but I'm not sure how reliable I'll be this summer. If a Highmen map comes up and I'm still around, I'll play, but if someone else comes in who could fill that role, give them precedence.
I actually rather like Pawel's solution. What do others think? I like the success rate but I think it would have to be modified a bit. For example, if we were to leave out After the Fall (Oracle's Eye doesn't even fit with the campaign so I don't see why we'd do that one), then the Highmen just have to win a Medium, 1v1 map (Cold Fusion) and they'd get 100%, coming in first, which doesn't seem fair. So a success rate almost seems to favour the less-played races more. But then again, maybe not.
I also like his solution because the larger the alliance, the greater the penalty (if the Undead had allied with the Orcs and Dark Elves, for example, each would have received 3 points rather than 3.5). I'm not totally sure if it's enough though. To me the idea is just to keep the element of greed in there, and I think the prospect of a solo victory should be tantalizing enough to cause allied players to at least consider going for it.