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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW2/SM Competitions, Tournaments & Wizard's Ladder » Preparation: upcoming 2010 PBEM Tournament
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Topic Subject:Preparation: upcoming 2010 PBEM Tournament
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Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 07-31-10 08:27 PM EDT (US)         
The yearly 2010 1v1 PBEM tournament will start soon and we need your help in its preparation!

For now, we need to recruit map-testers for maps that we may use for the tournament.

Game 1: Hope's End (Charx vs PawelS) - *Done*
Game 2: Hope's End (Roger vs Charx) -
Game 3: Sea of Sand (Morgul666 vs Bluebaby) - *Done*
Game 4: UpNUnder (iBobs vs H6) - *Done*
Game 5: UpNUnder (Oleg vs iBobs) - *Done*
Game 6: Oceania (Bluebaby vs Unnapu) - *Done*
Game 7: Oceania (PawelS vs Roger) - *Done*
Game 8: Sea of Sand (Roger vs PawelS) - *Done*
Game 9: Oceania (Bajadulce vs Castanieda) - *Done*
Game 10: UpNUnder (Roger vs Bluebaby) -
Game 11: Hope's End (Oleg vs H6) - *Done*
Game 12: Elementmo (SMUki vs Timelord -



Maptester requirements
- Able to play turns with a very high frequency (> twice/day, on average).
- Able to make detailed notes on issues that arise with the map.
- Send Swolte turns (and brief notes - optional) every 5 ingame days.
- Send Swolte a general commentary on the map when the game is over or the tournament starts.

=========================================================
Interested? Please post your email+timezone in this thread and tell me how many games you want to be involved in (maximum). I will then send you the tournament version of the map when it is ready and set up the games with an opponent.
=========================================================

FAQ:
Q- Do I need to log my turns for tournament maptesting on the forums?
A- No need to, but go ahead if you like to. It would help if you make some sort of private strategy log that you can send me.

Q- If the tournament starts so soon, will I have time to finish the testgame?!
A- It is possible you may not finish the testgame before the tournament starts. Especially if it is a 'bad' tournament map that takes 20+ days to finish. In that case we will use your impression of the map up to that point for feedback.

Q- Must I password protect my turns?
A- Not strictly necessary for this. If you do password protect, please send me the password (swolte@gmail dot com) so I can open your turns, or use 'testgame' as password.

Q- I like to play this map *blind* (e.g., not look in the editor).
A- You are recommended to play it like you would a tournament game. In my opinion, it would be silly not to study the map beforehand in the editor at least somewhat (if you are serious about winning!). Also, there are valuable comments to be gained from studying the map in the editor we need to know!


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 08-29-2010 @ 01:23 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 08-12-10 10:03 PM EDT (US)     26 / 71       
Another game has been started! Thanks Bajadulce for your kind words. I hope your buddies will join and stick around.

Game 9: Oceania (Bajadulce vs Castanieda)

I am keeping a log of the games in the top thread. It seems most games are progressing well. I won't be starting anymore testgames for first round maps after this Sunday because there may not be enough time to play them before the tourney actually starts.
A week before the tourney starts, all tournament maps should be in their final form and open for public feedback.


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
Henrysix
Member
posted 08-12-10 11:03 PM EDT (US)     27 / 71       
Sign me up for another, please!
Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 08-13-10 10:07 PM EDT (US)     28 / 71       
I have started another testgame:
Game 10: UpNUnder (Roger vs PawelS)

So yeah, I coupled Roger and PawelS again, since they both hadn't played this map, and were done another.

H6, I wasn't sure if you meant to play 'another' map as well, so I will set you up on Charx's Hope's End (probably with Oleg?) as soon as I get his latest edits on the map. You'll have 'another' game on 'another' map.

Let me know if people can handle more testgames!


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
Bluebaby
Member
posted 08-14-10 02:50 AM EDT (US)     29 / 71       
You could sign me up on UpNUnder against Henry! - I like to teach him lessons!
Oleg123
Member
posted 08-14-10 02:52 AM EDT (US)     30 / 71       
@Swolte : sure!

Spell check failed - not enough mana
Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 08-14-10 12:51 PM EDT (US)     31 / 71       
Sorry, BB, Henry was already reserved for Oleg on Hope's End*

Ok, let me know who wants more testgames. I'd slowly like to think, next week, about the maps for rounds 3 and 4. We may need another on Oceania as well.

*- Sigh - If his playing skills were only half the size of his bragging skills, he would be unbeatable.


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
Timelord
HG Cherub
posted 08-14-10 08:46 PM EDT (US)     32 / 71       
I wouldn't mind a test-game or two. Need to get the rust off of my skills.

2009 1v1-Mapmaking Champion, Former PBEM Singles Champion, Proud contributor to the UPatch 1.4 and 1.5 effort
War of the Twins- 1 vs 1 PBEM map, Too Much Water - 1 vs 1 PBEM map, winner of 2009 1vs1 Mapmaking Challenge
My Dragon Age development blog
Bluebaby
Member
posted 08-15-10 03:53 AM EDT (US)     33 / 71       
As I said, I'm interested to have a game on UpNUnder.
Bluebaby
Member
posted 08-15-10 04:25 AM EDT (US)     34 / 71       
Swolte, not sure where this fits but I want to give you some general feedback on the PBEM Tournaments.

A brilliant idea and also very nicely done, but what hurts are the chronic time restraints that I feel bring down (or have the potential of bringing down) the quality of the process, in each of the steps. What all must be done within one year! - Map-making competition - map-verification and modification - organising staff and sign-up process - tourney itself not to forget. Each of the steps is under heavy time pressure, as experience goes, and this isn't due to bad organisation but lies within the nature of things itself.

It's a natural alternative to hold the PBEM Tournament only every 2 years. This would ease time pressure and allow more quality to emerge in each of the steps, giving map creators, map tests and "audience" feedback more space to develop. Beside reducing the risk of heart-attack for the chief-in-office it would allow to have a higher orientation limit of turns for the single tourney game; not 20 turns - which is illusory in my view, seeing the results of the competition - but the double, 40. (As I have expertised in separate post, this would improve selectiveness of maps and hence results of the tourney.)

Something else could take place in the years between, like perhaps a clan meeting with the Russians or anything you can fancy, utilising the same maps which were created the year before (getting most out of it - so to say). - Giving a longer phase of championship would additionally highlight and boost importance of the event.

So I guess it's worth considering!
Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 08-15-10 10:05 AM EDT (US)     35 / 71       
Definitely!! Yes, its a good suggestion to have these tournaments be biannual. I was also thinking we could organize another type of tournament in (some of) the years between that can have, for example, a 2v2, online, specific mod, or (indeed a) clan format. That would be another staff, though, as after this I really want to get more serious with the patch project.

Chief is just fine and enjoying the process, but thanks for your concern! There are also reasons not to have preparation be too long, trust me.
it would allow to have a higher orientation limit of turns for the single tourney game; not 20 turns - which is illusory in my view, seeing the results of the competition
I am not sure what you mean but its practically impossible, imo, to organize a 1v1 tournament at this scale where games are done in 40 days average. Unless you do want to give organization a heart attack. Please be aware that finishing this type of a tournament with PBEM takes a 2 (minimal)-6 (maximum) month commitment for staff and all players with maps designed for 20 days average.

In last years competition, games did take an AVERAGE of 20 turns (edit: 21, to be precise), which worked perfectly. I believe that the maps this year are not that much different although we'll probably notice this in later rounds as better players typically also better utilize the feasible fast-playing elements of a map.

Will set up new games soon.


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 08-15-2010 @ 11:41 AM).]

PawelS
Member
posted 08-15-10 10:22 AM EDT (US)     36 / 71       
Hmm, maybe you should put the information that the signup has started at the frontpage news?

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 08-15-10 11:24 AM EDT (US)     37 / 71       
Done. Will also send out reminder email to last years participants as well as a post in general discussion.

Have to go to work first, though.


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
naecO
Member
posted 08-15-10 05:25 PM EDT (US)     38 / 71       
Oh my... it looks like I'll miss this year's fun >.<


Tired of manually receiving/sending your PBEM turns everyday ? Try out Dave's PBEM Wrapper!
Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 08-15-10 10:30 PM EDT (US)     39 / 71       
Oh no, would be great if you can join!

Bluebaby can replace PawelS against Roger on UpNUnder. PawelS opted out as he was getting too busy.


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
bajadulce
Member
posted 08-18-10 09:30 PM EDT (US)     40 / 71       
I've started a 2nd game on Oceana with Castanieda now playing O'Brien (Island Start) as well as sent a game on SeaofSands.

I'd very much like to try other games as well if anyone has the time. I'm very new to this and any experience would be huge at this stage.

Also is it customary to retain the same file name for each turn thus overwriting the previous one? This seems a bit confusing at times. One time I forgot to overwrite my file and found myself playing my opponents turn! And if you do rename a file, does the game signal this as a "restart"?

For instance:
Gametest9_Oceania_(Bajadulce_vs_Castanieda)T1.asg
Gametest9_Oceania_(Bajadulce_vs_Castanieda)T2.asg
Gametest9_Oceania_(Bajadulce_vs_Castanieda)T3.asg
etc..
Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 08-18-10 11:17 PM EDT (US)     41 / 71       
Hey Bajadulce, you get a restart if you rename. Basically, just overwrite the file! Let me know how the other game goes as well!

I have the latest version of the Sea of Sand, so please email me when starting a game on it. The one that is uploaded on the website is outdated. The tournament version should be playing somewhat faster.


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 08-18-2010 @ 11:20 PM).]

Timelord
HG Cherub
posted 08-19-10 11:31 AM EDT (US)     42 / 71       
I'm still up for a test-game if anyone else is interested

2009 1v1-Mapmaking Champion, Former PBEM Singles Champion, Proud contributor to the UPatch 1.4 and 1.5 effort
War of the Twins- 1 vs 1 PBEM map, Too Much Water - 1 vs 1 PBEM map, winner of 2009 1vs1 Mapmaking Challenge
My Dragon Age development blog
SMUki
Member
posted 08-22-10 03:13 AM EDT (US)     43 / 71       
I can also playtest in some games if needed.
Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 08-29-10 01:35 PM EDT (US)     44 / 71       
I have worked on Unsellord's map, Elementmo, which seems like a good one to use for the quarter and semi-finals. Smuki and Timelord are a go on that one!

- Game 12: Elementmo (SMUki vs Timelord)


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
Charx
Member
posted 09-01-10 09:44 AM EDT (US)     45 / 71       
What about the tourney mode? Are we allowed to make suggestions?
PawelS
Member
posted 09-02-10 02:52 PM EDT (US)     46 / 71       
I think last year's system worked well, but maybe we can try something different for a change, here are my proposals:

1. Fully Swiss system (so everyone will be in play till the end)
2. Double Elimination

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
Charx
Member
posted 09-02-10 04:32 PM EDT (US)     47 / 71       
I think the problem with a 3-games first round and then reducing to 16 players is that probably there will be players that will not proceed with 2-1 scores, just because of opponent points caused by bad luck. Last year we had the optimal result, getting each player with a 2-1 to the next round, but this time there are more players.

I would suggest
1) First round with 3 games swiss system --> reducing to 24 or 20 players
2) Second round with 2 games swiss system, players keep their scores of round 1 --> reducing to 16 or 8 players
3) Final rounds as best of 1 games
Oleg123
Member
posted 09-02-10 06:00 PM EDT (US)     48 / 71       
Reducing to 8 players with Swiss system may be even more troublesome for the same reasons. Reducing to 16 looks better but enforcing an additional round = longer tourney

Spell check failed - not enough mana
Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 09-02-10 06:11 PM EDT (US)     49 / 71       
I was discussing this with Enginerd the past few days I think we'll stick to how we'd done it before (so swiss until 16, and then traditional robin). It worked really well last year and I like the idea of setting a tradition so its easier to compare achievements between different tournaments (speaking of quarter/semi finals, etc...).

This time the Opp points will probably be more decisive, indeed! So one really have to hope your battles (won or lost) were against good opponents to up your Opp score. Of course, if opponents were all bad, you should have won three games on base points only.

We'll see how that goes...


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
Enginerd
HG Angel
posted 09-02-10 06:48 PM EDT (US)     50 / 71       
Yeah, it's been fun updating my spreadsheet and running through different scenarios. Getting to a top 16 after 3 games is possible, much also depends on how many more sign up in the next few days. No system is perfect and we're really hoping this modified swiss, pool, elimination style system will work out again this year for us. So far that's what we're planning on.

Appreciate the comments.
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