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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW2/SM Competitions, Tournaments & Wizard's Ladder » TNS: 2010 1v1 Mapmaking Tournament - Sign up here!
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Topic Subject:TNS: 2010 1v1 Mapmaking Tournament - Sign up here!
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Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 02-01-10 10:48 PM EDT (US)         
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to TNS (Tournament News Station), for all news regarding the 1v1 mapmaking tournament. Please check in here regularly, as we will have feature interviews on mapmaking with contestants and judges once in a while!

As is tradition, all submitted maps have a reasonable chance to be used for the 2010 1v1 PBEM-tournament, and the winning map is ensured participation.

So, what are you waiting for? Read the rules and conditions, and sign up!

*** THE CHALLENGE ***

The assignment is simple.
Make the best 1v1 tournament map in the world.

Conditions (read carefully!).

The map needs to be...
- the only map you submit to this tournament.
- of a SMALL SIZE only.
- playable as 1 vs 1.
- original, so do not use existing maps.
- made by you, and you alone, using the upatch-1.4.
- in English.
- open to criticism and (sometimes heavy...)
- open for the development of special tournament version. These are revisions meant to improve playability and balance, as the map may be used for an upcoming 1-v-1 pbem tournament.
- made as a tournament map. This means, for example, as balanced as you can! Both *human* playable Wizard should have an approximately equal chance of winning.
- available for the public (once submitted).

For the rest, everything is up to you! You can have underground or not, as many events (but be careful...) and story as you like, a million custom heroes/Wizards, AI Wizards or not, etc, etc...

For good examples of tournament maps, I would highly take a look at the mappack for the 2009 PBEM tournament.

*** THE WINNER ***
Now, why would you want to win this?

#1 - the winner will win a special Age of Wonders/HG drinking cup!
#2 - the winning map is guaranteed to be used in the prestigious 1v1 singles PBEM-tournament final, starting in the summer of 2010. In addition, the winning map may also be used in the first rounds of subsequent PBEM tournaments.
#3 - you can proudly wear the title '1v1 Mapmaking Champion 2010' in your signature! Forever...

NOTE: After the judging, the second and third ranked maps are also guaranteed to be used in the tournament. Remaining maps may also be used, but have no guarantees.

*** REGISTERING ***

Please sign up for this tournament by expressing your interest in this thread and posting your email (This way we can send reminders for the deadline). You can sign up anytime before the deadline to submit the map (see below).

List of contestants: 13
- Swolte
- Enginerd
- LordDuck
- PawelS
- nyarlathotep
- KillKenny
- Albaron
- The AM
- Bluebaby
- Puncturebox
- Charx
- Unsellord
- iBobs


*** SUBMISSION AND TIMELINE ***

DEADLINE TO SUBMIT COMPLETED MAP: MARCH 25th

Please submit the following to: chowguy@heavengames dot com

1) The Map
Please send the .ahm file (doesn't need to be zipped). I recommend NOT to put your name in the map so that judges have no idea who the mapmaker is and be (unconsciously) influenced.

2) -- OPTIONAL -- Statement of Testing and GI-Events -- OPTIONAL --
This is an honor-statement in a text file where you can explain how you have tested the map for balance purposes (no need to submit one if you aren't testing) as well as describe important game influencing events.

- Playtesting (balance): Playing for more than 12 ingame days counts as one testing session. You can indicate how many times you have tested and in what fashion
It's up to each judges' discretion how much value they attach to these statements for their score on 'Balance'.
- GI Events: Game influencing (GI) events are events that influence actual gameplay (Events other than for atmosphere and story). You are advised to indicate the most crucial ones, and in your mapmaking of a tournament map, to keep them to a minimum.

See example below in the FAQ!!

*** THE JUDGING ***

- Who will judge?

TO BE CONFIRMED:
- Arnout (Your Triumph Studios main scenario design/balance developer)
- Timelord (Your Cherub, winner of 2009 1v1 mapmaking tournament, former WL-champion)
- Costa (Your 2009 PBEM champion)
- The Groll (Your expert mapmaker)

- How will the maps be judged?
Chowguy will send the maps on to the judges who will only get the titles of the maps. They do NOT know who made those maps.
The maps will be judged on these three characteristics at face value.

Balance
This design basically and PURELY answers the question: "would you take a challenge playing either Wizard?"
- Are there any unfair advantages for one Wizard?
- Does one side have more opportunity to exploit game mechanics than the other? (e.g., seduce, control animal, etc...)
Note that a map doesn't need to be symmetrical in order to be balanced. You can be quite creative here.


Playability
This design determines whether a map is fun to play AND suits a tournament. Is there something unique/creative in the (strategic) design of the map that makes the gameplay stand out? Is it too predictable, or unpredictable? Is it easy to see what the game-influencing events are doing? Would it take too long to finish, or too fast? To what extent does winning depend on human x human play (as opposed to against AI)? Etc...

Atmosphere
This design determines how the map feels to play: the setting. Can you relate to the Wizard/Heroes? How creative is the landscape and special areas? Are there events or special signs that add to the atmosphere? A story?

*** FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ***

Feel free to ask any questions in this thread and I will put them up here with the answers.

What does a statement of testing look like?
A statement of testing should give a judge a quick impression.

This is an example:
---------------------------------
STATEMENT OF TESTING/ EVENTS
Map: The Depths.

BALANCE TESTING
Map playtested against myself (5 sessions)
Map playtested with friend (1 sessions)
Map playtested by testers (1 sessions)

(Provide links if there were actual threads)

Relevant comments: Big Archon main starting city does not allow building of Saints.

GI EVENTS
All events were play tested!

Important game influencing events:
- When Queen Ellessil captures the Wand of Earth item, and brings it to the temple of Gaia, the Goblin main underground area will collapse (change terrain: dirt/rock).
- A mighty hero will appear for King Gobbo upon killing the rogue elven hero called Skitzy.

----------------------------------

Isn't the statement of testing flawed and unfair?
The main purpose of this statement is to motivate people to actually test their maps. It is also a way to appreciate those mapmakers who do test!

However, the judges can now also take this into account at their discretion. It will simply be unrealistic time-wise to judge balance on the basis of playing the map once as a judge. There is a lot an experienced eye can see. Keep in mind that if, for example, the map has a lot of events, and is quite asymmetrical, a judge may put more value on the presence of such a statement than when the map is quite straightforward and doesn't need much testing.

However, it is an honor statement and people can indeed lie, and exaggerate. Not to mention that the amount of testing doesn't mean the map is actually balanced better. Please bear in mind that the judges will be (made) aware of this as well.

As for events, these are sometimes not obvious to people and pointing Game influencing events out may make for a better assessment of the balance.

No points are subtracted from NOT having such a statement.

Will the scores of my map be made public?
The idea is that we will only make public a top 5 ranking of maps without scores. Average scores (from all 4 judges per map) are available upon request after the judging. We will not make the names of the judges known.

Can I still change my map after the mapmaking tournament for the pbem tournament?
YES! If your map will be chosen for the upcoming pbem tournament you will receive feedback to make it even better. If you don't have time to fix things, the tournament organizers will make a tournament version of your map and use this.

Can my map get disqualified?
Yes, your risk disqualification if your map does not adhere to any of the conditions listed at the top. Ultimately, the judges decide what to do in such situations.

Why ONLY small maps? I have too many cool ideas and they don't fit!
Sorry, this particular mapmaking tournament is specifically designed for an upcoming 1v1 pbem tournament. FFA mapmaking tournaments allowing for larger sizes will certainly follow in the future.
Allowing medium maps would take too long to finish, even though these can be more interesting. Another reason is that its a very manageable size for our overambitious, and beginner mapmakers. A short but intense time to mapmake is usually best and keeps things fun!

Will my map be played blind?
('Blind' means that the players will not look at the map in the editor before the tournament starts).

No. In the case where knowledge can have influence on the outcome of the game, it is tricky, especially with the eye on the upcoming tournament. We cannot realize people playing the map blind for several reasons. First of all, there is no way we can really ensure that people don't know the map. Second, the judges will also want to play in the subsequent tournament. Third, maps may be played simultaneously in rounds so that earlier logs may betray crucial secrets to others. Fourth, the mapmakers themselves may be participating in the tournament.

Can I use SEM?
Yes. SEM stands for 'Standard Editor Mod' which is a tool designed by JamieJME. It is not a mod in the traditional sense, but it can aid in applying cool tricks to existing maps.
Check it out here


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 03-24-2010 @ 08:31 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
ibobs
Member
posted 04-29-10 02:55 AM EDT (US)     151 / 158       
Hold up here, I think you are getting the wrong end of my comments... I was trying to be light hearted withh my "flailings" nothing more.

And I am not being unfair to the judges as nothing is directed at them except a request for more feedback...

Quoted from Ibobs:-

So is there a way to question the judges about their comments? Not to change the scores, but a little clarification about what I missed is needed. For example - judge 4 said that my events where incomplete. Now, I have checked them many times now and need to know what I missed!

But also let me be very clear that I am not upset by the judging, I dont want to change any of the scores and I am not trying to cause hassle. I just think I can make a better map with some feedback...


So please note the last comment - I think I can make a better map with feedback...

As to reasons:-
1) Practical: the judge would be put in a situation where he must defend his comments to a potential 10+ maps. Which is a lot of work, especially if there are disagreements. Keep in mind that the judges are asked to give their impression. The judging DOES NOT REFLECT A 100% ACCURATE ASSESSMENT OF THE MAP because it is simply impossible to play-test these maps thoroughly. And not all judges have tournament experience or experience w competitive play. Personally, I wouldn't want to be a judge in that situation.

I realise this - it is all about personal opinions and that is the comp. I would like to hear those opinions.

2) Fairness: the judge is a human being and people can be more open and indiscriminate when they know their comments are anonymous. If there is hard criticism, you want to be able to give it, but you may not give this hard criticism if you know that the mapmaker (could be a friend) may be upset with you. These procedures are very common, for example in - real life - scientific peer reviewed journals where reviewers of papers are anonymous.

But the maps were anonymous so the map maker has no right to get upset at a friend if the results are not to their liking as how did the judge know?

I really hope that my map is used so I get my feedback!

And yes, sign me up for next years judging panel!

So as you can see, I am just trying to get honest and open feedback about good and bad points in map making so that I can get a feel for making a better one for the future.

However, and this is the frustrating part, is that there is no feedback (in two weeks) except a couple of lines that need a little more clarification and the scores - and with the anonyimity of the judges, then they cannot be asked directly to provide it... Simple as that.

As to being upset or anything daft like that with the judges - barring comments like "This sucks" and "Go play Wii instead" - then I will not get upset and I am not upset in any way - far from it, I think 3rd place (ok so joint 3rd!) is quite a good result and the winning map at least is excellent and (maybe) even better than mine...

So anyway, please dont take me badly through all this - I am just a perfectionist at heart (aka the Groll!) and how to gain that extra few marks is my quest in all this, not to hassle judges or whatever other negative spins could be put on all this...

I go dark now as have said my piece - feedback much appreciated on my map from any sources, judges or otherwise. Ta!!

Ciao for now...

[This message has been edited by ibobs (edited 04-29-2010 @ 03:36 AM).]

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 05-08-10 01:33 PM EDT (US)     152 / 158       
But the maps were anonymous so the map maker has no right to get upset at a friend if the results are not to their liking as how did the judge know?
No right doesn't mean that they won't necessarily.

It is just one of the reasons. Another important one is getting into disagreements with a (potential lot of) mapmakers about 'unfair' ratings and scores.

I thought to leave that up to the judge themselves whether they want to do it or not.
However, and this is the frustrating part, is that there is no feedback (in two weeks) except a couple of lines that need a little more clarification and the scores - and with the anonyimity of the judges, then they cannot be asked directly to provide it... Simple as that.
Seems like there are some comments now, but I understand it can be frustrating, especially if there are unclarities regarding comments (that a word, Roger?). I was expecting at least one more judge to post their comments publicly... *cough* Groll *cough*

I will post some of my own comments to your map later. Still have to play it a bit more... and Enginerds maps is a tough one too.


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
ibobs
Member
posted 05-09-10 09:09 AM EDT (US)     153 / 158       
Thanks Swolte. I look forward to them. I hope you are not going to be deliberately harsh...

And yes - kcik yourself up the back side Groll and get some comments posted!! :-D
The Groll
Member
posted 05-09-10 03:39 PM EDT (US)     154 / 158       
I am busy in RL.
Itīs work (time) to cut and send the doc (need to be cutted) to the mapmakers that voted with a YES in the other forum and/or make a comment post in the download area for each map for this or that mapmaker.
I also have not every email address from all the mapmakers that voted with a YES in the other forum and want feedback.
I also lost joy discussing this whole thing because it does not seem to be a very free discussion (tread was closed in between and the sound was a litte to "restricted"?).

It was interesting to make this doc and get what I want and it fulfilled its primary and secondary needs:
Primary: Giving me a chance to compare the maps in a fair way and vote for them after that.
Secondary: Giving feedback to the mapmakers.
Primaty target was hit and that is what counts at all.
In the end this comments are in a kind that it often compares the maps and then show that this was good or bad or this was a interesting idea or this could be changed better.

Aow is not the most important thing in my life (anymore?) and as I said before and I am busy.

AoWSM Maps: 1. Marlenes Welt 2. Marlenes Schatten 3. Marlenes Gnade
Up.1.4 Maps: 4. Secrets of Marlenia (UPatch 1.4 Map - update) 5. Gates of Elocin - Part I (Mapmaking Competition - Winning Map) 6. Davidīs Winter Wonderland 7. Fairy Wedding
8. Marleneīs_Laughter 9. The Gods Arena Of Magic And Power 10. The_Wilderness 11. Kayland (AoW I Mod) 12. Mia-Mina_&_The_Seadrake
11. AoW I Sound Set for AoWSM 12. Gentleman Rules Set
Need Help? The Conqueror's Fieldguide to The Groll's Universe
Proud member of the Upatch 1.4 & 1.5 Team
PawelS
Member
posted 05-17-10 05:41 PM EDT (US)     155 / 158       
@Groll: My map isn't uploaded yet, please send me your feedback by email when it's ready, after that I'm going to make some changes to the map and upload it.

@Swolte: When does the 1vs1 tourney start? I'm impatient

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 05-17-10 06:04 PM EDT (US)     156 / 158       
Plan: end of July starting with the sign up and stuff.


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
Oleg123
Member
posted 06-16-10 03:19 PM EDT (US)     157 / 158       
Can't wait for that, full-force gaming action with a strict time frame... 'nough with this summer time hibernation

Spell check failed - not enough mana
PawelS
Member
posted 07-24-10 09:40 AM EDT (US)     158 / 158       
End of July is coming...

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
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