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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » General Discussion & Suggestions » Patch MP Evolution 2.0
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Topic Subject:Patch MP Evolution 2.0
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HellBrick
Member
posted 05-02-11 07:52 AM EDT (US)         


http://aow2net.azurewebsites.net/mpe


3.5 years of development.
37 fixed bugs.
2 new wizard skills.
Over 100 game engine improvements, including spell dependencies, production transfer and new terrain/movement features.
Additional mod editor with more than 20 new mod settings to tweak.
Numerous balance improvements, thoroughly weighted and properly tested.
NO crazy new units, stolen and poorly converted graphics or any other ridiculous changes - this is still good old AoW, carefully improved in so many ways.

This is our new masterpiece: MP Evolution 2.


We'd like to say a big loud "thank you" to everyone who's been with us for all these years. Through all supportive posts and all the criticism, through countless bold suggestions and even bigger amount of the games played to test them you've helped us to make this patch better.

Thank you!

~ HellBrick & Jobe

Author of the post is not responsible for any side effects of reading it, including mental trauma, blown up brains, hurt feelings, law violation, sudden death or understanding what the hell author meant.
---------------
Twitter
MP Evolution 2.0 | Lab break 1.0

[This message has been edited by HellBrick (edited 09-12-2014 @ 02:49 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
feargus
Member
posted 01-26-14 09:37 AM EDT (US)     901 / 946       
Hi guys.

I was wondering if you have already decided on whether to continue with the mpe. Frankly i myself am rather disappointed with the lack of feedback from the community.

I thought of some more features I would like for the next version but hardly think it is worth the effort to go and add them on the uservoiceforum.

cheers,
leon

edit:
While i'm at it, i have just acquired a new laptop (nothing fancy) which allowed me to finally run the latest mpe (and mod editor).
Now all of the Beach tiles are purple, ingame and in the editor. The only one that has its original colour is the Beach tile in the selection menu. Is anyone familiar with this problem? What can i do?

edit:
ah yeah, so
actually a lot of colours have turned sour...
I installed wizards throne and it displays just fine.

[This message has been edited by feargus (edited 01-26-2014 @ 02:36 PM).]

HellBrick
Member
posted 02-01-14 02:02 AM EDT (US)     902 / 946       
I don't think there will be another big MPE release. Uservoice was an awesome tool to objectively measure the people's interest in the project, and it has clearly showed how low it is these days. So it's time to move on

About the graphics glitch: I've no idea what's causing it. I've personally seen it happening once in MPE (was fixed by restarting the game), but my editor and SM are constantly like that. This is really bizarre >_<

Author of the post is not responsible for any side effects of reading it, including mental trauma, blown up brains, hurt feelings, law violation, sudden death or understanding what the hell author meant.
---------------
Twitter
MP Evolution 2.0 | Lab break 1.0
The Groll
Member
posted 02-01-14 03:39 PM EDT (US)     903 / 946       
Uservoice was an awesome tool to objectively measure the people's interest in the project, and it has clearly showed how low it is these days. So it's time to move on
Does this mean you will not pick up the work again on MPE?
Yes itīs true. there are not many players left now but I will never abandon AoWSM. I am not interested in AoW 3.
If it would be possible I would rate ten time for MPE.

AoWSM Maps: 1. Marlenes Welt 2. Marlenes Schatten 3. Marlenes Gnade
Up.1.4 Maps: 4. Secrets of Marlenia (UPatch 1.4 Map - update) 5. Gates of Elocin - Part I (Mapmaking Competition - Winning Map) 6. Davidīs Winter Wonderland 7. Fairy Wedding
8. Marleneīs_Laughter 9. The Gods Arena Of Magic And Power 10. The_Wilderness 11. Kayland (AoW I Mod) 12. Mia-Mina_&_The_Seadrake
11. AoW I Sound Set for AoWSM 12. Gentleman Rules Set
Need Help? The Conqueror's Fieldguide to The Groll's Universe
Proud member of the Upatch 1.4 & 1.5 Team
Kornstalx
Member
posted 02-02-14 12:20 PM EDT (US)     904 / 946       
Uservoice was an awesome tool to objectively measure the people's interest
I've been silently following this thread for about 3 months. I admit I only peeked at the uservoice link once, and now I regret not speaking up over there. For the past decade I've always returned to stints of Age of Wonders every year or so. It's a classic to me, and I don't see ever completely putting it down since it's so modable. The last time I played I had never heard of the MP Evo branch off of u1.4, and I was extremely excited to see how much hard-coded work had been done when I found it. I haven't been able to put it down. I have spent at least a hundred hours alone trying to backtrack MPE changes, disassembling the new exes, tinkering under the hood and generally trying to see how you guys were able to accomplish most of this. Hellbrick, your work is in all earnestness the greatest contribution to the AoW2:SM scene since its release. I'd even say it eclipses what the u1.4 team did.

That said, the only niggling issue I have is the MP-centric focus tends to break some Campaign and RMG AI things (like the production rollover -- the AI can't take advantage of this -- some Rebuilder spamming issues, Pioneer changes, etc). I've actually been working on my own mini-mod to roll back some of these things closer to vanilla while maintaining your amazing additions and balance, with a focus on single-player and AI issues.

One of my oldest issues with AoW2/SM has always been the rate of expansion. I've always felt cities grew too fast and skills were researched too quickly, so that by turn 60 almost all the towns on the map were City size, and you could research all the skills in a mere 3-4 turns each. About 7 years ago actually submitted a Slower Growth mod to remedy this (HERE), but it was a hack method, using negative growth values applied to each race in the editor. I never really was content with the final product. However other issues were introduced by that method, such as certain spells becoming extremely powerful (Plague) and it threw the +growth balance of every building out of whack. The buildings could be scaled with the changes in the editor, but spells and skills (like Expander) were hard-coded. Well, while mucking around with WinHex in your exes I accidentally stumbled across the offsets responsible for the hard-coded tiers of town growth. Finally I was able to fix the rapid expansion issue and slow things down without throwing everything else out of balance.

The offset changes depending on the exe, but if you're curious just search for:


C8 00 00 00 58 02 00 00 78 05
\/ \/ \/
| | |
(200) (600) (1400)


Anyway, I just wanted pass some of this along since I sorely regret not speaking up before now. There's certainly quite a bit of interest still in MPE, and I hope by speaking up maybe some other lurkers might do the same. I've poured quite a few hours into tweaking MPE, and fixing some things, and will probably post the finished product once I'm satisfied. Hell, I'll just post the current changelog now -- maybe it'll help reaffirm/rekindle interest in MPE.
General:
*******************
Altered town growth thresholds in the exe to the following values:
Village --> 300+
Town --> 1000+
City --> 2400+

Underground entrances in RMG games now use cave graphic instead of the large "dwarven door"
Set rollover for construction projects back to 0.0 (was 0.8), since the AI cannot queue projects
Set rollover for research projects to 0.5 (was 0.3), similar value to Producing Merchandise
Wizard's Tower I now grants +5 Research to keep it in line with levels II and III (+5/+10/+15)
Clarified every spell description to include ATT/DAM values and damage type (Fire/Phys/etc)

Pioneers pop effect to 100 (was 110), allows max pop City (2500) to produce w/o downgrading
Pioneers require minimum Town size (1000+ population)
Pioneers starting price rolled back to 150g (was 100g), price increment unchanged (150g)
Pioneers movement rolled back to 28 (was 40)
Pioneers re-given Rebuild Structure ability to fix Campaign and AI issues
Rebuilder unit stats adjusted to be more in line with Pioneer to fix RMG AI issues (spamming)
(-3DEF, -3RES, -1HP, -Block II, +Fire Weakness)

Doubled the base research cost of ALL skills. Casting Specialist retains 200RP increments
(now 400->600->800->1000->1200)
Pacifist reduced to 25% experience (was 30%) to keep in line with Conquerer (75%)
Changed all specialist Wizard Skills to give a flat 2x bonus of spells appearing in spellbook
Casting Specialist I now 1 pick (was 2)
Revised all default Wizards to have 2 legal Skill Picks (below)

Wizard Changes:
********************
Marinus (Halfling) Technophobe, Explorer, Merchant, Survivalist
Fangir (Dwarf) Illiterate, Constructor
Tempest (Draconian)Decadence, Explorer, War Mage
Anon (Archons)Pacifist, Peace Keeper, Channeler
Karissa (Orcs)Enchanter
Nimue (Humans) Materialist, Expander, Conqurer
Mab (Goblins)Technophobe, Expander, Survivalist, Summoner
Serena (Elves)Bureaucrat, Expander, Scholar, Casting Specialist I
Arachna (Dark Elves)Bureaucrat, Summoner, Scholar, Casting Specialist I
Merlin (Human) Channeler, Casting Specialist I
Julia (Elves)Peace Keeper
Ke-Nan (Nomads)Decadence, Explorer, Conqureror
All-Devourer (Demons)Channeler, Casting Specialist I
Yaru (Syrons)Channeler, Casting Specialist I
Inioch (Elves)Decadence, Peace Keeper, Scholar, Channeler

Spell Changes:
********************
Recall Hero moved back to Air Sphere (was Common), giving Air 6x L3 spells
Mighty Meek moved back to Life Sphere (was Common), giving Life 6x L1 spells
Spider's Curse moved back to level 1 (was 2), giving Death 6x L1 spells
Domain of Darkness moved back to level 2 (was 3), giving Death 5x L2 spells

Fixed colored "MPE Spells.ILB" to correct all wrong spell colors, and revised for above changes

TODO:
********************
Fix descriptions of multirank skills to include ATT/DAM details (Turn Undead II, etc)
Consider deprecating Rebuilder due to Pioneer rollbacks unless Build Watchtower can be restored
HellBrick
Member
posted 02-03-14 12:33 PM EDT (US)     905 / 946       
@ The Groll: Some spontaneous minor updates still may happen (like the one that made the Lab break mod possible). But we're not planning to enter another full 1-year development cycle to create MPE 2.1/2.5/3.0/whatever.

@ Kornstalx: Cool, I thought everyone else with the reverse engineering skills have abandoned AoW a long time ago =) By the way, you can increase the city population limit to avoid screwing with Pioneer's population price. Take a look at the method at VA 005327A4

Author of the post is not responsible for any side effects of reading it, including mental trauma, blown up brains, hurt feelings, law violation, sudden death or understanding what the hell author meant.
---------------
Twitter
MP Evolution 2.0 | Lab break 1.0

[This message has been edited by HellBrick (edited 02-03-2014 @ 12:34 PM).]

Morphem
Member
posted 02-10-14 02:22 AM EDT (US)     906 / 946       
@ Kornstalx

As an all-time user of the Slowgrowth mod (can't play without it on large rmg maps),
me & a couple of friends are verrrrry interested in your updated tweaks,
- not only for slowing down cities growth (even more so than in Slowgrowth 1.10 would be great)
- But also for slowing down skills research rates.

Cheers
Arkmore
Member
posted 02-23-14 10:38 PM EDT (US)     907 / 946       
Regarding the Migration, Racial Expulsion penalty Would it be possible for you to message me on how I might possible set this penalty value to 0 since the mod editor addition seems unlikely I have some basic knowledge of hex editing. and thanks for all the work on MPE.
vyolin
Member
posted 02-28-14 10:42 AM EDT (US)     908 / 946       
@Kornstalx
Here is another one that would greatly appreciate getting hold of your patched exe-file. Those changes (especially the colored spell book) sound fantastic!
USer16
Member
posted 04-21-14 11:12 AM EDT (US)     909 / 946       
I'm still trying to finish out Marlene laughter map. Now using MPE. Hellbrick, may be you could help me somehow with the savegame or some advice how to overcome gamecrash.

During 162 turn it's just dropped out of AOW no matter what. It dropped out during 161 but somehow it's passed that turn.

And another bug - in midgame most of the gods quest couldn't be finished by fulfilling theirs requirements. After several saves-loads they could be finished, but after one finished quest the bug persisted.

I can give a savegame for some analisys if needed.

According to the log it's some FX-related crash:

Operating System: Windows 8.1 (6.39600)
DirectX Version: 9.0 (4.09.00.0904)
Desktop Resolution: 1920x1200x32
Physical Memory: 1613 / 4076 MB
Virtual Memory: 1336 / 2047 MB
Winsock 2 Detected: YES

AoWSM Version: 1.30
Resources ID: 0
Display Resolution: 1024x768x16
Display Mode: Full Screen
Pixel Format: 5-6-5
3D Renderer: Hardware
Display Driver: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 (nvd3dum.dll)
Driver Version: 0.0.0.0 (4318 / 4487)

Detail Level: High
Cursor Mode: Software
Sound: On
Music: On
DirectSound: On

Map: !Gnome7.asg
Day: 162
Play Mode: Simultaneous
Connection Type: Local
Players: 9
Human Players: 1
Seated Player: 3
Current Player: 2

Combat: None

Application opened at: 8:01:00 PM
Invalid FX - starLposf (IL)
Exception occured during TEventActionTE (8:01:53 PM)
System Time Error - Restart AoW2
Application closed at: 8:01:54 PM (3 errors)

[This message has been edited by USer16 (edited 04-21-2014 @ 11:17 AM).]

JoeTheBartender
Member
posted 05-06-14 09:33 AM EDT (US)     910 / 946       
I'm trying to make a mod using the latest version of MPE and the Mod Editor which comes with it, but I'm having a couple of awkward problems .

Firstly, the Martyr and Paralyzed abilities seem to break the Unit display window for me (there may also be some others like Vertigo, Cursed, Frozen etc but I haven't tested these yet). Paralyzed works until the mod is saved in the Map Editor, which I find a bit weird. If there is any unit with any of these abilities (or gain these abilities on Gold/Silver Medal), the Unit display window fails to display any of the units. Another of my issues is with the Morph ability. I'm having to copy over the Morph ability from the old AoW Editor, since it would appear the new Morph ability uses new Hex code (or can't be edited the old fashioned way)?

Another issue I'm having (albeit one I can work around easily enough by backing up my UnitGFX.pfs) is with the display of some unit bodies. If the Unit display window fails to display some units (their Unit Bodies just come up as blank spaces) and the mod is then saved, every Unit Body which failed to display have their Preview cells removed (which seems to have some really weird results in-game).

Lastly, I'm having some trouble with the fixed abilities of heroes. I can edit the default stats of heroes easily enough (as in the old AoWSM Editor), but their abilities seem to be fixed and can't be changed with MPE's Map Editor. This is causing some headaches for me because I wanted to change some races around and make certain heroes be on foot.

Is this something which is only happening to me and/or is there any way to fix this? Any help will be greatly appreciated . I can also take screen-shots if they'd be useful.

Edit: Nevermind I've figured out ways of getting around most of it except for Martyr and Paralyzation breaking the Unit Editor and the edit of ranged unit abilities (making them 3 uses instead of infinite. Also non-Pixie Dust ranged attacks which have random effects seem to be unusable in-game and breaks the AI).

[This message has been edited by JoeTheBartender (edited 05-09-2014 @ 07:40 AM).]

flyguy
Member
posted 05-12-14 10:45 AM EDT (US)     911 / 946       
I just finished playing 'Lords of Celederion' by Low_K while using MPE 2.0.4.209.

'Lords of Celederion' is a nice scripted scenario with absolutely zero magic nodes on the map... thus ending any problems with mastery spells; yet I still ended the game on day 114 with over 90,000 mana surplus!! Also, all wizards are specialists so there is no spamming of 'cosmic spray' during every battle!

It was a single player game and I chose to play dwarves.

Several times one of my dwarf heroes was offered 'repair machine II' as an upgrade; but I only get 'repair machine' for choosing it, which I already had to begin with. When I click on the messages for the upgrade, only repair machine is listed...even though I chose to take 'repair machine II'. This in effect cancels out my hero's level bonus.

I think that in the previous version of MPE my hero did correctly receive 'repair machine II'.

Thanks to the MPE team for all of your work on AOWSM!

[This message has been edited by flyguy (edited 05-12-2014 @ 10:55 AM).]

Raruto
Member
posted 05-29-14 07:37 AM EDT (US)     912 / 946       
I can't download the mod editor...
scorpio1
Member
posted 06-01-14 06:04 PM EDT (US)     913 / 946       
Played some AoW on LAN with this after a long time, used latest version, and first of all the mod remains awesome.

I had some funny behvaiour trying to dispel magic on resurgence on some titans though, used gargoyle dispel magic and beholder, and tested it many many times to make sure.

One of the 3 titans had resurgence cast on him in combat, and when the dispel was successful it dispelled just fine, but the other 2 had it cast on them prior to the combat, and the ability itself appeared in gold as opposed to blue, indicating baseline as opposed to enchantment as you know, and indeed even when the dispel magic was a "success" as reported by the combat log, it did not actually remove resurgence.

This cannot be intended behaviour surely?
Masakary
Member
posted 09-04-14 07:03 AM EDT (US)     914 / 946       
Seems like the official site is down ; does anybody have a link or can upload the latest version of the mod ?
Bullerbuller
Member
posted 09-05-14 07:14 PM EDT (US)     915 / 946       
Yeah it has been down for some time now. I do have the newest mod but the real problem is that the mod editor isn't working and can't install as it needs to download 'http://aow2.net/install/ModEditor.application'.
HellBrick
Member
posted 09-12-14 02:50 PM EDT (US)     916 / 946       
The website is up again at a new address: http://aow2net.azurewebsites.net

Hopefully this hosting will last longer

Author of the post is not responsible for any side effects of reading it, including mental trauma, blown up brains, hurt feelings, law violation, sudden death or understanding what the hell author meant.
---------------
Twitter
MP Evolution 2.0 | Lab break 1.0
Raruto
Member
posted 10-19-14 11:34 AM EDT (US)     917 / 946       
GOOD TO KNOW!
Finally i can download the mod editor
thank you
Rothrod
Member
posted 03-27-15 03:44 PM EDT (US)     918 / 946       
Hi everyone!
I want just to say that there are still people who play this game very actively, even after the release of Age of Wonder 3...and I'm not a weird nostalgic, I'm a 19 years old gamer who plays this game usually twice a week with his friends, enjoing new maps and mods, and trying to create our ones. Less than a week ago we found this patch...how we managed to miss this one? I really don't know...however, we are now all quite excited to see how many things we can really do with this new engine, and, after some researches on internet, I still have some questions without any answer:

1) Is it possible to add new spells/skills/units with the mod editor?
2) The "normal" editor now is used only for custom maps,right?

and the really important one:


There is any chance to see this project go any further?


See, even if I really like Age of Wonders 3, when I play it I don't feel that it can completely replace the old ones. I don't really know why, maybe there is no real reason(although I think there are some issue that have to change in the future)...
When I see this patch I think that AoW:SM can still compete with the new 4X games without any problem, so if you have the right knowledge and any spare time, please keep digging on the game codes and allow us to customize the game even more!
Thanks for the hours of fun
vexx
Member
posted 05-05-15 12:02 PM EDT (US)     919 / 946       
Found this Mod for the classic game. All seems to be working fine except I cannot finish the tutorial mission and clerics are not showing up for some reason.
JoeTheBartender
Member
posted 05-14-15 10:23 AM EDT (US)     920 / 946       
Hey Rothrod

Sadly the answer to your first question is mostly no . You can make new units and set up their bodies with the Map Editor, but their stats and abilities must be modified using the Mod Editor. The Map Editor must still be used to set up things like wizards, unit bodies, new units, items, production etc.

If you're making a new mod using the mod editor, I'd highly recommend taking a look at my previous post, there will likely be some useful information on how to get around critical bugs that the mod editor may have for you. Hope this helps .


Hi vexx

Stat changes for units will likely be the culprit. Since units can't move to a certain point in 1 turn for example, the tutorial just freezes.
ryukra
Member
posted 08-12-15 11:42 PM EDT (US)     921 / 946       
Good work. Is there any tip on how to port a mod from before patch 1.4 and mpe?

[This message has been edited by ryukra (edited 08-12-2015 @ 11:44 PM).]

The Groll
Member
posted 08-24-15 04:09 AM EDT (US)     922 / 946       
Hello Rothrod

I only want to say that your posting makes makers of "this modding stuff" happy.
This kind of words is the only thing they really want to earn from their work and it always feels good to get positive critics or just some nice words for the work they do - like yours.
Thanks for that.
Often modders or mapmakers only get negative critics or hints for what they need to do better.

AoWSM Maps: 1. Marlenes Welt 2. Marlenes Schatten 3. Marlenes Gnade
Up.1.4 Maps: 4. Secrets of Marlenia (UPatch 1.4 Map - update) 5. Gates of Elocin - Part I (Mapmaking Competition - Winning Map) 6. Davidīs Winter Wonderland 7. Fairy Wedding
8. Marleneīs_Laughter 9. The Gods Arena Of Magic And Power 10. The_Wilderness 11. Kayland (AoW I Mod) 12. Mia-Mina_&_The_Seadrake
11. AoW I Sound Set for AoWSM 12. Gentleman Rules Set
Need Help? The Conqueror's Fieldguide to The Groll's Universe
Proud member of the Upatch 1.4 & 1.5 Team
JoeTheBartender
Member
posted 06-10-16 09:33 AM EDT (US)     923 / 946       
Found a couple more bugs, these ones seem to be more serious.

I don't know if this has already been reported, but the first one is that the AI can move any unit over a wall when attempting to attack a Wall Climbing unit on a wall. Does anyone know what could be causing this?

And the second is in the mod editor. When a race is changed to Pure Good alignment, it instead changes it to Good. I'm going to see if changing them to Good makes them Pure Good (I'm crossing my fingers!). Any help regarding this problem would be much appreciated.
Ziggurat Builder
Member
posted 06-28-16 01:30 PM EDT (US)     924 / 946       
I made an account here just to say, the download link 'http://aow2.net/install/ModEditor.application' seems to have died; actually, it gave me a '403 Error'.

I managed to find a mod editor I had from a previous install,combined with the successful install of the min MPE 2.0 game, everything is working for me but the link is dead nonetheless.

And I also wanted to say, what a superb mod and editor! Thank you!

[This message has been edited by Ziggurat Builder (edited 06-28-2016 @ 02:06 PM).]

Evalora
Member
posted 10-05-16 05:17 AM EDT (US)     925 / 946       
Is there a mirror/non-web install of any of the 2.0 series?
Ziggurat Mason
HG Cherub
posted 11-30-16 04:07 AM EDT (US)     926 / 946       
Actually, the link works fine still.
Belix
Member
posted 12-22-16 05:23 PM EDT (US)     927 / 946       
Just wanted to drop by and mention some things in case there's ever another version of MPE. I still play it once in awhile and still enjoy how much more useful it makes the lower level units, spells and summons feel.

There's a bug where if an opposing wizard has Power Leak active, the Mana<->Research distribution slider misbehaves. Every time you close the window, the value gets changed slightly. It seems the calculation that finalizes the ratio of Mana to Research that runs when the window is closed uses a different formula that prevents it from keeping the value you're trying to set it at. (This also seems to happen occasionally when Power Leak is not active, but not sure why yet...)

While Wetland doesn't destroy the caster's or allies crops when cast, Ice Age does. This seems like an oversight since MPE deliberately fixed something in regards to Wetland removing allied crops, and it makes Ice Age quite harmful unless your cities/units are mostly Frostlings.

I'm not sure the Conqueror skill works any more. XP gained appears to behave as if the ability isn't active at all.

In the original game, Orc Archer idle animation doesn't loop correctly, and still doesn't in MPE - only mentioning this because you fixed some other animation issues. Here's the correct values:

300,301,302,303,304,305,306,307,308,309,310,311,312,313,314,313,312,311,310,309,308,307,306,305,304,303,302,301
200,201,202,203,204,205,206,207,208,209,210,211,212,213,214,213,212,211,210,209,208,207,206,205,204,203,202,201
100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113,114,113,112,111,110,109,108,107,106,105,104,103,102,101
0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,13,12,11,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1
500,501,502,503,504,505,506,507,508,509,510,511,512,513,514,513,512,511,510,509,508,507,506,505,504,503,502,501
400,401,402,403,404,405,406,407,408,409,410,411,412,413,414,413,412,411,410,409,408,407,406,405,404,403,402,401


The Demon Healer unit (v1.4 Shadow Demon priest) has an attack frame speed of 7, making its wave of 3 bolts twice as slow as other racial priests.

Also, I have no idea if you could fix this, but a bug in AoW itself for a long time is that you can't cancel an Enchantment that you've cast on another player's unit by selecting the unit and then clicking the Enchantment. You have to go to the active spells page and try to guess the right one.

EDIT: Noticed another bug - despite most abilities now being modified to disallow targeting units that would be immune to the attack, Doom Gaze can still be fired at units with Magic Immunity.

EDIT #2: Here are some more notes/bugs from a note file I found from previous MPE playthroughs. Apologies if there are any repeats here.

-Efreets mistakenly gain Fire Bolts II again on Gold, rather than advance to Fire Bolts III. Definitely a mistake.
-Transport does not receive Fire Protection at Veteran, unlike the Galley. Not certain if mistake or deliberate.
-Syron Pioneer does not have Shadow Walking, even though the Shadow Demon one does (I forgot to check if Draconians do, since they are also Shadow Walkers).
-All displayed upkeep values in Production and Spellbook menus do not reflect the adjustable upkeep costs, and show the (incorrect) default values, e.g. 6 upkeep for a Level 1 unit instead of 7 under the default rules.
-HellBrick unit may show up a little too often, during one game half of my Efreet army was HellBricks. While I don't mind the unit it may make more sense if only one can occur per game, or just reduce the odds a bit so you're rarer.
-Mana income is not displayed properly (bug with original game), as it does not account for Research to Mana conversion. Kind of annoying seeing -50 mana per turn on the display but you actually gain mana due to research, for instance. This isn't too difficult to write an ASM fix for, as I did so for my own personal use already.
-Recruiting units with 1 click is, I feel, one of few 'bad' changes this mod has made. It is no longer possible to select and preview the stats and abilities of a unit, and attempting to do this instead instantly buys it and makes the structure unusable for next turn, which leads to accidental purchases, potentially of units that may not even like you and attempt to rebel. I would suggest this could be undone. It's really not that hard to simply double-click the unit if you want to recruit it. This change creates much more hassle for me than it solves.
-It would also be nice for people who don't play MPE constantly to have a warning about the (permanent) diplomatic penalties of attempting to Migrate, Loot or Raze a city with the current race in it, since this is easy to forget and a great way to cripple yourself accidentally if you play other versions/mods.
-The upkeep cost of Level 1 Wolves renders the Call of the Forest spell painful to use, as it frequently summons L1 Wolves that you assigned L3 upkeep too, which combined with the +1 upkeep per level yields an army of Wolves that each drain 13 gold per turn. In general I like most of what MPE did making lower level units more viable, but this particular change I have never liked. Paying double gold for a future advantage that only pays off if L1 unit reaches Elite and morphs into an L4 unit - and then having to pay full price for the Doom Wolf as well - is just not worth it, imho.

Okay, now the big one: Pioneers and Rebuilders. I found a way to negate the need for Rebuilders entirely and restore the original Pioneer functionality while retaining your pricing model for new Pioneers. I suggest simply shifting the price calculations from PRODUCING Pioneers to the BUILD OUTPOST ability. The only drawback to this is that there is no longer an incremental time delay in producing Pioneers, but you can adjust their initial cost and/or the price model to compensate for that. There are a number of benefits though:

1) Objects no longer shift around in the production menu, which means when you try to build a bunch of one unit quickly, the Pioneer disappearing from the list doesn't bump everything out of place and cause you to add the wrong unit to the queue several times.
2) No more need for Rebuilders; Pioneers can (re)claim Rebuild Structure, Build Roads, and maybe even Repair Machine (I left Repair out, since I wasn't sure if that might cause the AI to build Pioneers unintentionally).
3) I know you have always been focused on human multiplayer games, but Rebuilders are a big problem for AI, sometimes half a group consists of Rebuilders which the AI builds for no reason, and really hurts their gameplay. With this change the AI plays much better not wasting time and resources on Rebuilders and thinking they help them siege cities etc.

Again, I made this change myself with some ASM edits and liked it much better than the current setup. It's just a suggestion though.

Keep on being awesome, HellBrick!

[This message has been edited by Belix (edited 02-06-2017 @ 12:42 PM).]

Belix
Member
posted 02-03-17 04:02 AM EDT (US)     928 / 946       
HellBrick, since you decided not to pursue version 3.0 of MPE due to the declining number of players these days, might I very kindly suggest you consider releasing what must no doubt be an amazing and exhaustive amount of information regarding the game's internal functions and addresses? All the modding notes you can dig up from MPE would be invaluable to those of us still tinkering with it.

The work you have done is amazing... I understand for version 3.0 you were looking at major features that would be very complex, but if you ever feel a temptation to work on AoW again, you could just focus on v2.0 and fixing some of the few simpler remaining problems.

I also recall having seen screenshots you posted of a newer version of the MPE Mod Editor that was never released that I know of. My editor doesn't have a Wizards tab etc. as in some of your screenshots, among others. The Mod Editor and the MPE Map Editor could use some work too if you ever feel up to it. It would be nice to see more stuff exposed and adjustable that the game hides from us.

You might even consider taking a stab at an external random map generator for Shadow Magic... with your programming skills I have no doubt you could make something that would create far better random MP scenarios than the built-in generator, which while decent unfortunately seems to emphasize "random" more than "map."

Just some ideas I wanted to toss your way since you clearly love the game very much, and wanted to do more - there's more to do if you still wanted to, that might not cost nearly as much for the result as the complex things MPE 3.0 would have involved.
BF_Tanks
Member
posted 06-16-17 02:19 AM EDT (US)     929 / 946       
It would be really great to see HellBrick post a reply or something. It's a bit sad when someone decides to stop working on a project because "dwindling numbers".. I thought this project was out of a passion and love for the game and modding it, not because of your popularity.

@Belix;

I've started making my own modified version of MPE fixing some of the issues you've raised as well as adding my own flavour to it. You talk about "ASM Edits", what are these?

I'm fairly clueless when it comes to AoW modding. I have been using MPE's Editor and the Mod Editor tool to add new heroes/items and change units and some basics such as costs of structures, but I'd like to learn how I can make more drastic changes -- Such as the morale penalty. One thing I don't even understand is how the morale system in AoW2 even works, I would love to be able to see some raw numbers and change some more inner-workings of the game. You sound like you know more about in-depth modding.

I don't think HellBrick is likely to post any time soon given that his last reply to this thread was in 2014..

Proud Member of Black Forest Studios
Co-creator of Silent Evil - Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2009
and The Seas of Egressa - Voted Best Multiplayer Scenario of 2010
HellBrick
Member
posted 09-11-17 03:05 AM EDT (US)     930 / 946       
Hi everyone =) It's been quite a while since I visited HG and looked at this topic, and, to be honest, I was quite surprised to see any sings of life in it.

I'd like to address a couple of things that you guys have mentioned in the few last posts. The first is the possibility of any future updates to MPE. As you might have guessed, this is something that simply is not going to happen: both me and Jobe have long since moved on. Like everyone else, we have limited amounts of free time and have to choose what to spend it on between numerous fascinating things available to us. And while I still find the process of working on MPE fascinating, it's just too time-consuming (even for smaller changes) for me to justify diving in again, especially if you consider the facts that the online community is dead and I personally no longer play AoW 2. I understand how this may be disappointing to hear, but this is the way things are.

Regarding the information about the game internals. There are two things I can share with you:

1. OllyDbg's .udd files for MPE's game and editor executables that contain a crapload of labels and comments describing the game functions I've encountered and edited. I don't know if or how this information can be extracted for reuse by other disassemblers/debuggers, but there's a lot of useful stuff there, since it was my main instrument when working on MPE.

2. The source code of the mod editor and the libraries associated with it. The most important things contained there are the (de)serializer for the AoW map/resource format and a lot of the game classes with the correct property names + serialization IDs. It's an old code base I'm not proud of, but it still can be quite useful.

I'll try to release these things some time this week. .udd files are easy; the code, however, needs to have the dependencies figured out, checked for the sensitive data, etc.

Author of the post is not responsible for any side effects of reading it, including mental trauma, blown up brains, hurt feelings, law violation, sudden death or understanding what the hell author meant.
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[This message has been edited by HellBrick (edited 09-11-2017 @ 03:06 AM).]

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