(I haven't slogged through the entire thread, so apologies if someone has already suggested this)

1) new art for shadow gates

2) a shadow gate that is for use on water

3) standard water mills, ship wrecks, and others that have the image flipped over so the orientation is reversed

4) a unit that can build an underground gateway (for use digging down or up)

5) higher level gyrocopter that can carry one passenger

[This message has been edited by Alex Mars (edited 01-13-2006 @ 04:54 PM).]

One of the games I love is HOMM3, and they have a user-mod (WoG) that adds a lot of options. One thing they do is let the game generate a random map as usual, then do some 'post-processing' on that map.

Would it be possible to do something like that here? That would allow for things like:

1) Adding new structures (without completely removing existing structures)

2) Adjusting Independent town sizes (starting and max)

3) Ban certain structures (primarily thinking of Champions Guild/Sanctuary/Wizards Tower) from some Independent towns (so not all towns can build everything)

4) Strength of defenders (mostly boosting it for those towns starting larger, or able to grow to cities, or build all structures)

5) And probably lots more ... but not much point coming up with tons of ideas if it's not possible

Quoted from Sunsoul:

Maybe, Racial Building with (Willpower, Bless) instead of (Willpower, Crusader) ? Both Protection and Res, but not from start.

Quoted from Knallwinkel:

Yes, both light and extra-heavy Cavalry with the same speed. Do you think it's good ? IMO, it was one of most obvious resource shortcomings...

Quoted from Uncut Dragon:

Is not possible - all in code.
At least, "Transport Wagon" unit to transfer infantry and machines at better speed is possible. Sadly, but again - it's too basic and available-for-all (Builders' Hall or basic unit for different races would be sensible) for UPatch conception. Though IMO larger and more free Expansion Pack is good idea too.

Quoted from Alex Mars:

And some other structures too, but IMO this requires Movement Type other than "Used" and maybe special TCMap will not be used then.

Quoted from Alex Mars:

It's not possible as is. Worse - my experiments with Caravan ability ("Erect CityName") and pre-placed cities and structures was not successful. Perhaps there's no workaround for unique StructureID.

Quoted from Alex Mars:

...and don't allows any other units to be placed on the same hex. The same with Transport 1 for Level 4: not only it's not for UPatch, but this solution (though interesting in itself) means any Kharagh will be accompanied by only 1 unit (whether it's small Darter or extra-large Pioneer).

Quoted from RosenMcStern:

Yes, i meant this. Compilier's "case with bands" code looks rather optimal - as i wrote, it was Random(100) for 4 equiprobable events which shocked me. I know that many people consider it ok (and even blasphemous calculation of probability in percents), but i don't see why this should be readable better than simple "case Random(3) of:".
That's worse, it's a spot where the troubles begun. First programmer does this, then one separate class per sphere for income structures instead of Sphere (like with Nodes) and Name fields, then new ability instead of old TAbility or TEnchantmentAbility have new class TCrusaderA and adds its +2 Res not in the same function where Block, Charge, etc are checked. And u-ups! It don't works. And there's no time to debug... Why ? Principle is simple - add more unnecessary entities, then add even more of them instead of the general case(s)... and be sure: it's a best method to make any further program modifications as hard as possible (even if first version was debugged perfectly). Isn't this obvious enough ?

If you normally raze or loor a city, your moram drops.
But if you create a caravan and disband it, you won't suffer from a moral drop.
Can this be changed?

Quoted from swolte:

Sounds good... if possible have the forces of good and forces of nuetral with a possible flying hero too. The neutral flying hero can be a genie or a hero riding a flying carpet or possibly a flying insect. The good flying hero can be an angel or a hero riding an eagle or hawk.

--if an angel hero I recommend a male angel hero since the current angel unit appears to be female.--

What would you think of the idea of having Healing II available to some national healers (currently on with cardinal IIUC) at gold -- and make healing II and III exactly like healing I but usable 2 and 3 times per day respectively?

I think it would be a huge help if we could get into the .exe and change the upkeep costs. I think it would be cool if we could adjust the costs based on map sizes. Give units (all units or just level 3 and 4 or just level 4, whichever would work best) a formula of upkeep times x, where x is the size of the map (0.5 for S, 1 for M, 2 for L, 4 for XL). So a level 4 unit, let's take, for example, the Kharagh, would be prohibitively expensive except for a well-established empire on XL maps, but would be easily mass-produceable on small maps (making the former a large empire building scenario, and the latter a smaller, mass level 4s scenario). Of course this would need a huge amount of balance tweaking and stuff.

Basically, this and my Transport I on level 4 idea (which is too big a change for a patch, IMHO) are just different means to the same end: That I think AoW SM would be a much better game if the emphasis was on an army composed mainly of level 1 and 2 units, with lesser amounts of level 3s used as powerful shock troopers or support, and finally level 4s as a kind of rare, costly ultimate weapon.

I'd rather focus on lvl 2 units. They bring variety do the game. Lvl 1 units can only fight, lvl 2 ones seduce, repair, taunt, change their shape, create whirlwinds, float, fly, entangle and drain will. It is a pity that they are often too weak to fight high level armies.

Yep, that's exactly the idea. The level 2s should be one of the biggest parts of your army. The level 1 swordsmen and archers should be the backbone of your army (with level 0 units supporting). Level 2 should be not the most numerous but the most important part of your force. Level 3 should be powerful, hard-hitting support units. They should be an important part of your army but definately shouldn't be your main force.

I think the game should encourage a ratio maybe like this:
4:2:1 (That's, for example, 4 axemen for every 2 heavy calvalry, 2 heavy calvalry for every Warlord). I mean, that ratio's just an example, and the numbers would probably be different for every race (Goblins might have more focus on level 1, Dark Elves on level 2, and Elves on level 3, for example), but that's the general idea.

That's my biggest gripe with the series as a whole; too much focus on large armies of high level units as opposed to larger armies of low level units with higher levels supporting.

Would changing upkeep values to
4,9,16,25 help that out any? Just a suggestion.

Iīve helpt making the patch 1.4 but I donīt like some things, we have changed.
I think some things we made are not good. I donīt know about this things. I see them first as I play the patch now, that is out for some two month.
I recomment that we change some things back if we made a 1.5.
First the bad things:
1."Bann creature?" Spell have now only 20 Mana costs. That is bad. I think it was 50 or 60 and that was much better.
Why we hav changed this? This spell kills a powerfull creature and I think 20 Mana is much to lees for that.

2. Crash Gates only 10 Mana costs. Bad change!!!
The only thing this brings us is that humans are now even more strong against A.I. This is a powerfull spell.
the only chance to kill attacking Groups is to fight against them in a City or Tower. Now every Little Hero can crash the gates. The is realy bad. And then the 8er Groups can march inte the defendles town like ther where no gates and walls around. This is a realy bad change.

Wishes for 1.5

3. Harder punishment, if you are not able to complete a mission of a god. This little punishments, if I am not able to comlpete a mission, are not more than a stab from a needle. I donīt knoe if it is possible to change this but it where fine.

4. Unicorn unit had healing in AoW 1. It was a strong unit.
I have hoped that this would be changed into 1.4 but it was not. Let us make this unit as stron as it was in AoW 1.
Iīm not hte one who crys for upgrades for units but htis Elfen unit is much underpowered.

5. The "Dragon Grows" ability for the little red dragon ist very nice. He grow up if he gets silver medal and become a golden dragon. This is very good but he must collect more that the 40 points to grow, I thing.
And there should be more little dragons in the units stock.
Little Red, little black, little white and so on and they should grow up to different big dragons, for example big Red, Big Black, big Ice Dragons.
This must be a simple thing if someone can recolor the little Dragons.

So far. I have maybe 20 more things for a 1.5 that have to do with structres for the dark races. For Example:
We donīt have much structures for shadowdemons. The thigs we have donīt look good in the Shadow Land.

And a praise at the end:
Some of the existing units like the frostling healer with his blinking stab are very beautifull.
Or the Hobbit healer women (Hobbit Cleric) with the new birs sound are fantastic too.

For Swolte:
I know you will collect tis tips from this forum for a 1.5 upatch.
If you are ready, maybe at the ned of this year, I have many more tips and ideas for your team.
I hope Iīll be onboard again then. (Working under pressure is fantastic)

Quote:

The AI actually casted the spell during a siege.
I had never experienced it before.

The AI should also learn to use goblin bommers effectivly.
The won't blow themself up if the walls aren't breached.
They'll attack with 4/5 stacks filled wtig bommers,but only 1 unit/stack that can attack a gate. All you have to shoot the 5units and then you can easily defeat them.

Quote:

Yes, I would like this too, but it is a very drastic change from what it was. The Unicorn in v1.4 was given healing, but only at gold.

[This message has been edited by swolte (edited 01-25-2006 @ 04:50 PM).]

Maybe moving that to silver would be more reasonable? In my (granted, fairly limited) experience Unicorns rarely survive to gold, and they aren't affected by War Shrines so there wouldn't be any way to exploit this.

If you want a fancy gold medal upgrade, maybe something like blur or magic bolts (I could imagine a very experienced unicorn using magic to blur himself or shoot bolts of energy out of his horn lol!)

I would like to draw people's attention to siege weapons. When actually laying siege to a city, they aren't real good unless the gates are broken. How about a siege machine having ladder allowing the infantry to bypass the wall. This would look like an actual siege.
-------------------------------------------------------
Another thing I would like to suggest is that there are too many dragons in the v1.4 patch. This limits their uniqueness. Please reduce the number of dragons in v1.5 or include different looking dragons.

How about a dragon riding unit or Hero? It would look magnificient.
-- Undead swordsman on a BoneDragon.
-- Elven swordsman on a FairyDragon.
etc...
--------------------------------------------------------
How about including some neutral animals like cows, horses, camels etc for just beautification of map. They will not have any attack.
--------------------------------------------------------
How about having " trade " between the peaceful and allied kingdoms. One can design a 'trade wagon'(a bullockcart or horse-cart) which will help to carry trade between different kingdoms. One of the advantage of this will be that if a kingdom is on the verge of bankruptcy, it can earn its bread from this wagon.
----------------------------------------------------------
How about including a 'mage' who can summon creatures during battle. OR how about a mage Hero who can summon stronger creatures during battle as he levels up.
Imagine a human mage hero summoning a 'lurker' at level 1, 'waterdancer' at level 2, 'minotaur' at level 3, 'chaos spawn' at level 4, 'Magic servant' at level 5, 'Earth elemental' at level 6 etc.... only during battle.
As he levels up, he will have an option of summoning the previous level creature also.
-----------------------------------------------------------

[This message has been edited by sausud (edited 01-29-2006 @ 05:41 AM).]

Quote:

Yes, I imagine a map where you will have to herd sheep to safety!

Really? I'M envisioning a return of my Secret Agent Sheep from AoE II

Hi Sausud, Hi all!

For Sausud
I donīt think we should reduce the number of Dragon units.
Dragons are the croun of AoW Units and thats the reason why everone wants to make a dragon if she/he makes a new unit. I think every unit we have inside the patch are great. I wanted even more. You cant build this many Dragons so there is no reason why we need to remove some of them, but if Someone wants to make a outstanding map he can scoop one of this Dragons and place it on his map.
a Map only with dragons or too much difeerent Dragons on a map are not so fine, I think like you too.

For Sausud
The Cannons and Catapults are very weak now and I donīt use them anymore to attack a city. I think this is sad but not so bad. This weapons now only defenders.

For you all
But, why I write today, has another reason:

I have many new Ideas for buildings and other things but this two things I want to discuss today with you people, are not only for a little patch team to decide.

1. I think if a game goes many rounds, it becomes more simple every turn because the citys become bigger and wizzard towers grows up and so the range of magic influence grows up to much.
My wish for a 1.5 patch is to reduce the magic influence ranges from the towers by 2-3 hexes for every tower upgrade.
so the magic influence of our wizzards are not to wide and the game becomes more interseting. If I have 60-80 Spellpoints from my wizzard and attack a city or an army and have even two heros that have spell points I easyly crush every enemy.
If we reduce the ranges the game becomes more pure.
In some maps it is enoght to have only one level three tower to control the whole map and that is bad I think.

2. If we attack outside the range of our towers, but have a Hero that can cast spells we have influence from our wizzard too and again we have maybe more than 100 spellpoints together. Maybe we can delete or reduce this spellpoints from the wizzard by half, if we are outside the range of our wizzard towers. So the game becomes more pure too.

This are two massive changes and Iīm not sure if it is possible to changes this thigs but when we whant to change thigs again in a new patch 1.5, I hear some people that ask if we can hack the *.exe and then it is maybe possible to do those things. I donīt know.

I where very happy if this changes become true, but as I sayed, this is a massive change in gameplay.
I donīt like mods but this where a reason for me to make one if this where possible.

- What do you all think about those ideas of a more interesting, more pure, more "weapon fighting" and of course a little bit harder gamplay?
- And another Question. Does someone think, this changes possible to realise?
- Is it maybe possible to change it in this kind, that A.I. Towns have the old ranges (and so the weak A.I. player have a little advantage) and only human town gets the shorter ranges?

And another idea.
If we can add more city improvements, maybe we can add a tower guard upgrade, so that our tower guards can be upgraded to shot 1, 2, 3, 4 or even 5 times during a battle. Alll a question of upgrade money.

[This message has been edited by The Groll (edited 01-30-2006 @ 05:46 PM).]

I would like to see some bugs fixed, but as I understand it will require high level programming and it is illegal. I talk about the terrain change spells bugs (that destroy crops) otherwise a pbem game will suffer from those spells (since it is savegame based).

As for suggestions - maybe boosting a little the halflings.

May be the problem of "illegal programming" will be fixed itself if developers stop naming 1.5 as a "Patch", but rather call it like "Unofficial Addon"? They may keep old file AoWSM.exe, but make an additional .exe file for the Addon.

BTW the product is a freeware! So, imho, it's illegalness aims at zero. Not?

Quoted from arcador:

It's not only illegal, it's practically impossible without the source code of the game.

Quoted from Webusver:

I have no idea how this could be done.

Quoted from PawelS:

Welcome back, PawelS!

Turbo Beholder has discovered some more hex locations (you did this for the one with the racial building abilities), so some hex edit sessions could yeld interesting changes. Limited, but substantial changes. Of course 95% of wishlists cannot be done by modifying the exe directly, without access to the source code.

Quoted from Webusver:

Alas, it is not! It is not a matter of whether you charge something for it or not, it is a matter of intellectual property. The original owner of the copyright has the final word about distribution or modification because he is the author, not because you are paying for it.

Most fan works are freely distributable "for non-commercial purposes" because the author wants to compel distributors to give him a share if they make money from his work , not because non-commercial usage is allowed without the author's permission.

If and only if TS decide they do not want to make an AoW3 will we be given the permission to modify Shadow Magic. And maybe not even in that case...

Has it been mentioned whether or not this patch is going to happen? I'm thinking about playing some of the mods first, then coming back to the main SM game once this patch is finished (I'm about done with AoW2).

Quoted from RosenMcStern:

Yes, we can change some numbers in the exe, I meant fixing bugs (like the transport bug or Summoner's Aura bug).

Quote:

So this "final word" should be got. If there are going to be some changes in .exe file then the addon should just add his own .exe file while leaving the original one as it is. This is not an invention. Remember HMM3,5 and even commercial JA2:Wildfire? So it's time to make something like this.

As for suggestions, I would like that Sanctuary be changed to War University and give all new troops Silver Rank. So that AI eventually may have more skilled troops. Shrine of War Spirit instead may give all troops just Enchanted Weapons but not Silver Rank.
To help AI live in the shadow land, all summons, heroes and wizards should have Shadow Walker from birth. It would be nice if all 3-4 level troops will have Shadow Walker also. Then 2 level troops may have it on Silver and 1 level troops on Gold Rank. Thus the Shadow World will become playable and there will be no need to abandon it. BTW then the game can truly be called AoW: Shadow Magic.
How about the name of addon "AoW: Shadow Wars"?

[This message has been edited by Webusver (edited 02-01-2006 @ 04:16 AM).]

Quoted from webusver:

Impossible. It's a shame, but there are very few things that can be done by hex-editing.

One thing that can be done is modifying the TC maps, and someone is currently working on this.

I would like to see an ability called, perhaps, "Command", in versions Command I, Command II and Command III. This ability is attainable by heros only, most likely by warriors. If a hero has Command I, there can be up to 9 units in a group in which she is in; 10 for Command II and 11 for Command III. But perhaps this isn't doable...?

Also, small balance thingies:

- I would like to see the Glutton lose 1, perhaps 2 defense. (He should be a sitting duck, and he now has 36 HP anyhow.)
- I would like to see the Drac. Elder lose Leadership1, but gain it at silver, Leader2 at gold. (I dislike the idea that he now currently resembles the Chaplain, Sherriff and Chieftan even more -- I think diversity should be a key element here, not homogeneity.)
- I would like to see the Undead DK cost 5 gold less and the Vampire cost 5, perhaps 10 gold more. (Currently, Undead Level2 choices are not real choices, they are no-brainers.) (Or do something to the DK to make it less sub-bar, like give it Smoky Haze or something interesting.)

EDIT: Another thing: I think the game could profit from greatly enhanced building descriptions too (much like you did for the units). What exactly are the prerequisites for a stone wall? It would be nice if the description of Siege Workshop included that, for instance. Just the icing on the cake, really.

Thanks for at least listening!

[This message has been edited by onomastikon (edited 02-01-2006 @ 10:01 AM).]

The descriptions of the buildings may not be too long, because the tooltips only have one line.

Minor gripe of mine:

The Centaur, one of my favourite Halfling units from AoW1, which I sorely missed in AoW2, doesn't have strike!

So could it at least get it at Silver? Gold?

It sure can't have strike.
It's strong point is that he's mp's during a battle can't be drained.
MMII+seeker + higher MMlevels at sliver/gold makes it an excelent unit, that not only fast, but also concealed, the sneeky basterd.