Unofficial Patch V1.5 - Plans and suggestions

Topic Subject: Unofficial Patch V1.5 - Plans and suggestions

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Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 12-28-05 11:51 AM EDT (US)

Note: This thread is meant to provide news about the progress of the v1.5 project. Suggestions are welcome, although more threads will be made in the future to make the information flow more fluent.
If at all possible, keep the thread a summary of ideas with a short explanation. Try and keep discussion on a topic minimal and make a thread and link to it, if you think your topic is up for discussion. Remember that suggestions are meant as a patch and the aim is wide acceptance by the AoW-community. This means that changes must be in line and compatible with existing maps and campaigns. In addition, gameplay changes should take Online, Play by Email and Single Player into account. This is different from a mod that is able to change large gaming concepts or is made for whomever is interested.

PLAN FOR UNOFFICIAL PATCH: VERSION 1.5

WHY DEVELOP AN UNOFFICIAL PATCH V1.5?
- To keep interest in Age of Wonders alive!!
- To keep improving aspects of the game.
- To keep the game interesting and dynamic on a competitive level.
- To dramatically improve the possibilities for mapmakers and modders.
- To enhance community involvement.

HOW CAN I HELP?
The development forums are here and everyone who wants to can sign up and contribute! Core members will be admitted by invitation only.

WHEN WILL IT BE RELEASED?

Since the project isn't a financially sponsored or paid endeavour, we have no strict deadline. The patch will not be a rushed product and the necessary time will be taken to fix issues and thoroughly test balance changes. Delays are possible and may take as long as months.

EXPECTED RELEASE DATE:
Currrently undetermined

WHAT IS POSSIBLE?
The teammembers will consist of very able people in the modding/playing/mapmaking/writing world that are capable of working in teams. What is possible will largely depend on the qualities of the teammembers and rules we allow ourselves to break. Decisions regarding some of these issues, as you may understand, are not allowed to be discussed in public on these forums. Please email me at swolte at gmail dot com with questions regarding copyright, hacks, etc...

In terms of additions to the game, v1.5 will be much bolder than v1.4 was.

********************WHAT IS PLANNED SO FAR?********************
This list may be expanded.

CAMPAIGN + Campaign Editor (35% complete)
The campaign will consist out of many linked maps replacing the old campaign (yes, you will be able to switch back and forth). The basic campaign structure therefore is linear but the internal design will allow for as much (perhaps even more than expected...) freedom.
We'll also attempt a campaign editor that actually works so users can make campaigns themselves a lot easier

MORE BUGFIXES (80% complete)

Fixes

RACIAL BOATS/PIONEERS/MACHINES (55% complete)
v1.5 will be a bit bolder in the sense that we will add and replace some existing units. Perhaps only with a couple of races.
- Racial Boats
- Racial Machines
- Racial Pioneers
- Extra Builder unit at Mastery Guild for some Constructor races.

This picture shows Bilge rats (the new Goblin Transport 'boat') transporting nasty Goblins and Kobolds to the human wharf. The peasants and defending pikeman are fleeing for safety towards the old mining tunnel.

NEW HEROES FOR CLASS (80% complete)
This will be the biggest change planned as it will impact gameplay as well as game feel. The intention is to replace existing hero classes with unique graphics (keeping some, but replacing most...). We have decided to go for it, in full force.
Discussion here.

ADDITIONAL WIZARDS and ITEMS. (85% complete)
Some new items and Wizards will be added to the standard library. This means that these can now also show up in the Random Map Generator.

NEW MAPS. (30% complete)
These are maps that will come with the patch. They will show some of the new editor features that will otherwise not be available when playing the game.

This picture shows more water based tiles and units. The whirlpool can suck in even the giant seamonster. On land, there is a fortress holding many magical creatures. and a Seer sees trouble from afar, when a Spiked Maw is flinching its three large, and deadly spikes on his back

MORE NEW UNITS/STRUCTURES/TERRAIN. (80% complete)
Especially mapmakers and single-players will be treated the most with these additions. None of the existing possibilities will be altered or changed. These can be considered as bonuses and have no effect on playing existing maps. Mapmakers can add them at will, the advantage is that a lot of work by fans and hidden opportunities of mapmakers will now be directed supported and easily accessible by everyone.
- New units will also now be available in standard structures (as defenders or recruits), as spirit rewards/infidels.

NEW RACES + RACE SWITCHER (~ temporarily stopped ~)
Another ambitious project is the race switcher. This utility will let you play new races (also in rmg) at the cost of switching one.
Some new races planned:
- Demons
- Gnomes
- Beast
- Fairy
- Lizard

This will be the last priority. If the patch's release is delayed too much, we may opt to do this as a future add-on.

********************WHO WILL BE INVOLVED?********************
These teams will be elaborated as time goes on. This is the current status. Vacant positions will be posted in this thread.

Map Team
This team is the core design team for the campaign
- Morgul666
- Swolte
- A
- Enginerd
- Nyarlathotep
- Albaron

Graphics design Team
This team will create units and structures for the game!
- PawelS
- Swolte
- The_Groll
- Albaron
- Achilles Reborn
- Beastfeast
- TravisII
- MagicIceFlame

Technical Support
- PawelS

NOTES
- This patch will be larger in size than the previous one. For v1.4, size was a restriction for certain additions and for v1.5 we're gonna let that go completely. Especially now that we are adding movies to the Campaign, hitting 500 MB is possible.

Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 10-16-2011 @ 12:47 PM).]

Author

Replies:

DarkLynx
Member

posted 03-13-09 11:21 AM EDT (US) 1471 / 2787

Resurrect for every priest at gold isn't a good idea I think, cause the saints will lose their uniquenes.

But I agree, priests are most useless unit and it could be done something about it.

Merkraad
Member

posted 03-13-09 12:04 PM EDT (US) 1472 / 2787

The HP regaining through Morph is a one shot deal, but its a tremendous deal - don't underestimate it. Its hard to plan accordingly when you can't see the XP an enemy Unit has in TC!

It does adds strategic depth, but is that something to wish for? New to average players have a hard time learning the game as it is already. Also, it does adds possible confusion and randomness to battle results.

Sure it would be good that at least some Units are colorful. But what about balance? Or suspension or disbelief? Why does a certain Unit magically turns into a more powerful one and an equivalent/similar of other race does not? Now, if ALL units had a Morph upgrade... (someone did a Mod like this but won't release it to general public)

Quoted from DarkMystery:
The major problem just is, new players won't like to play mods the base version must be attractive enough to play it on all levels, no matter if it is sp, online, pbem.

That point is the most important one. Some players refuse to play Mods. If the Upatch is 'mod-like', that's not gonna be very good. Upatch has to at least try and please all crowds. Mods can be crazy, loonie, insane things with weird changes that appeal to only a few, because that's no problem, really.

Artist, Sorcerer, Monk and AoW Series fan
Proud citizen of BRASIL \o/ |o/ \o| \o/ |o| /o/ \o/
Blog with some art

www.the-battlefield.com ex-member with fond memories:Battlefield Player of the year 2003;Battlefield Winner of 4 Tourneys;Battlefield Winner of AoW league 2004
Proud owner of an AoW SM poster signed by Devs!
Please try the fantastic BNW Mod made by my friend Kirky Picardo! The best AoW:SM Mod!

bam65
Member

posted 03-13-09 02:33 PM EDT (US) 1473 / 2787

Merkraad said:

The HP regaining through Morph is a one shot deal, but its a tremendous deal - don't underestimate it. Its hard to plan accordingly when you can't see the XP an enemy Unit has in TC!

It does adds strategic depth, but is that something to wish for? New to average players have a hard time learning the game as it is already. Also, it does adds possible confusion and randomness to battle results.

Sure it would be good that at least some Units are colorful. But what about balance? Or suspension or disbelief? Why does a certain Unit magically turns into a more powerful one and an equivalent/similar of other race does not? Now, if ALL units had a Morph upgrade... (someone did a Mod like this but won't release it to general public)

I don't think it's a 'tremendous' deal. Don't overestimate it either.

How many new players are we getting, really? It's not a hard game to learn, and how would it add confusion?

I already said that balance would be an issue but suspension of disbelief? It's a fantasy game, and while I understand what you mean, how many other things in this game are illogical even from a fantasy perspective? I don't see how creatures turning into upgraded versions of themselves would be any less plausible than those same creatures gaining new abilities that they didn't have before from the medal leveling process.

Regarding the balance issue: it might be hard to balance, but if every race didn't have such morphing units or less morphers than other races I think it's still possible. You might have to beef up the equivalent units of the races without morphers but it still should be possible.

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 03-13-09 11:28 PM EDT (US) 1474 / 2787

Great points, regarding morph!

How many new players are we getting, really? It's not a hard game to learn, and how would it add confusion?

Well, I get stats for each site, and we are still getting about a new member signing up a day, and for a game this old, that is really quite special! The thing is, keeping those that visit!

sausud
Member

posted 03-13-09 11:40 PM EDT (US) 1475 / 2787

Hi Swolte,
You are correct. It is easy for new people to join but hard to maintain them till end.

-= Love heals all =-
The One and only NymphMaster!
Aow-SM Maps: The Titan Gate (4.9/5)
Aow-TWT Maps:Glass (4.6/5)
Got any questions/suggestions regarding my maps? Post them HERE

bam65
Member

posted 03-14-09 02:40 AM EDT (US) 1476 / 2787

Do you mean a person each day for the board? That doesn't necessarily mean they're actually playing the game.

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 03-14-09 12:17 PM EDT (US) 1477 / 2787

Well, I assume people taking the trouble of signing up for AoWH, specifically, have at least an interest in the game. For those that do not have the game, if we keep that interest, they will probably want to get it!

Sunicle
Member

posted 03-14-09 03:27 PM EDT (US) 1478 / 2787

In response to some earlier remarks about generating interest from new players I would say it's not so easy to get the game! Ebay: �70 for Wizards Throne, �47 for Shadow Magic (in Euro's: ~ 75 and 50). That's second hand. The kids are not gonna buy it for that.
Amazon looks a little better, but still: collector's item prices.
The availability of this game is a problem. Older strategy games can still attract new players, see Civilization III or Heroes of Might and Magic III; both have vibrant and young communities, but you can get a copy of those games for just a couple of pounds these days, and that's a factor for young players.

I'm speaking from experience, as I am a new player; I actually bought a German copy of the game last month, as there were some cheap German copies on offer on Ebay then, but I wouldn't have done that if the English version wasn't so ridiculously expensive, and I'm sure most non-Germans would have given it a miss altogether!
(off topic, all of this, but relevant to some earlier posts)

naecO
Member

posted 03-14-09 06:23 PM EDT (US) 1479 / 2787

There are a lot of threads around here to guide peole where to get a copy of AOW:SM at good price. Aow:SM is probably expensive in North America as many players brought up but it's very cheap in europe (around 5 to 10 euros). It does not matter where you buy it, the game is multilingual. RogerRabid (who lives in UK) witnesses very cheap copies of SM in UK, same thing in Germany.

Tired of manually receiving/sending your PBEM turns everyday ? Try out Dave's PBEM Wrapper!

Sunicle
Member

posted 03-14-09 07:18 PM EDT (US) 1480 / 2787

Quoted from naecO:
It does not matter where you buy it, the game is multilingual.

True of course, but I when those cheap German copies were up on Ebay, people were still bidding for that expensive English copy. English speakers are lazy: put product info and seller's details in another language and they're put off.

naecO
Member

posted 03-14-09 07:54 PM EDT (US) 1481 / 2787

Quoted from Sunicle:
English speakers are lazy: put product info and seller's details in another language and they're put off.

Not true

as i'm one of them. I don't know a single german word, but still tried to get one of them copies from german merchants.
Anyway, this is not much of a kid game per se. Most of aow players around here are married and have kids

Tired of manually receiving/sending your PBEM turns everyday ? Try out Dave's PBEM Wrapper!

Zeldafreak
Member

posted 03-15-09 03:39 AM EDT (US) 1482 / 2787

@Sunicle:
are you sure that aow is that expensive? i got aow2 for 20�, aow sm for 20� and aow 1 for 5-10� and this was some years ago. now when i look on amazon (german), i could get aow sm for 5�. so i dont think the price is the prob...

[This message has been edited by Zeldafreak (edited 03-15-2009 @ 03:40 AM).]

Sunicle
Member

posted 03-15-09 12:03 PM EDT (US) 1483 / 2787

All what we're saying is anecdotal of course, but I found it harder to find a good deal for AoW than for comparable games. I'm trying to look at it from the perspective of a potential buyer who's just taking a quick look, and perhaps doesn't even know yet which game he wants to buy.

Anyway, I believe the original concern was whether adding extra abilities to a unit could make this game too difficult for new players. I would say: don't worry about it. New players will accept that they don't immediately see what each unit is capable of. I rarely see players complain about too many units or too many abilities. I think for new players that's just new areas to explore. It adds to the exitement, not to the bother.
What new players are much more sensitive about is the interface. The interface needs to be as helpful as possible, and when info is lacking or the interface is clumzy, players are not so forgiving. So putting something new in that can easily be supported by in-game info is different from something where this is difficult.

Now I'd like to put in a suggestion of my own, of a very different nature. Yeah, completely different subject; I've noticed from my recent escapades with the editor that there's just no way to recreate Scotland. You're fine if you want your map to look like the Netherlands, Italy or whatever, but how can I create something that looks like this:

This is how 99% of the north of Scotland looks like. It's all brown grass, and the editor doesn't give me that. Grass based landscapes in the editor always become very lush and park-like. There are so many additions to grass in the editor, but they're all green, none of them is brown.
To recreate Scotland you don't need whisky distilleries or Loch Ness monsters, but you can't do without brown grass! Perhaps it could be as simple as doing a re-colour of one of the existing green bits and adding that. Give it a thought, perhaps, and look at that picture.

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 03-15-09 01:03 PM EDT (US) 1484 / 2787

I completely agree. For relative newcomers, and perhaps even most casual players, these discussion on Saints and Necro's must seem quite overdone.

Great picture, we'll make!

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 03-15-2009 @ 01:06 PM).]

The Groll
Member

posted 03-15-09 04:48 PM EDT (US) 1485 / 2787

Hi Sunicle,

Do you really thing it�s impossible to recreate Scotland with the possibilitys you have in the editor so far?
I am allways a fan for 'more' for the editor.
But it should be a real unique thing. Maybe this grass you want is such a unique thing. I think we should for example add grass and maybe some 'swampy' waterplants (trees) to shadowwater. This is implementet now allready? Is it Swolte?
I try to make your Scotland with the upatch 1.4 and uses Steppe and in the smaller image some other terrain types.
I onle invested some minutes but I think the result isn�t bad. I have not added more than we can see on your image.
A fantastic barren land.

I like it a lot.
Have a look at this please.
Sure it�s not as light brown as in your image but in your image the sun is shining while my image has some clouds in the sky so we can maybe add such nice brown grass.
If you want I can send you this testmap too.

Swolte? Maybe we can make one or two new shaded overlays too? I mean the black ghost mask that makes the land darker (You can see it in this small image placed on the beach grass). When we make another shade mask but not black but green or brown maybe it makes a graet effekt and can change a lot of landscapes to a more brown or green color. It�s wort a try and easy to do. What do you think?

AoWSM Maps: 1. Marlenes Welt 2. Marlenes Schatten 3. Marlenes Gnade
Up.1.4 Maps: 4. Secrets of Marlenia (UPatch 1.4 Map - update) 5. Gates of Elocin - Part I (Mapmaking Competition - Winning Map) 6. David�s Winter Wonderland 7. Fairy Wedding
8. Marlene�s_Laughter 9. The Gods Arena Of Magic And Power 10. The_Wilderness 11. Kayland (AoW I Mod) 12. Mia-Mina_&_The_Seadrake
11. AoW I Sound Set for AoWSM 12. Gentleman Rules Set
Need Help? The Conqueror's Fieldguide to The Groll's Universe
Proud member of the Upatch 1.4, 1.5 & 1.6 Team

[This message has been edited by The Groll (edited 03-15-2009 @ 05:03 PM).]

Sunicle
Member

posted 03-15-09 06:18 PM EDT (US) 1486 / 2787

The Groll, that's certainly a better effort than what I came to! Starting with steppe terrain as a base is probably better.

Although I'm not sure how 'unique' this brown grass is. I would expect it anywhere in the world with a poor soil condition or lack of rainfall. Just think of the scenery in westerns; plenty of brown.
A brown grass that could add a different touch to as well steppe, grass, desert and maybe even wasteland should be goal, I guess. It should be versatile.
About Scottish landscapes I could be a bit too sensitive, I'll admit that, but if Swolte is prepared to have a look into it, than that's great!

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 03-15-09 07:07 PM EDT (US) 1487 / 2787

You read my mind, Groll. I have already asked KD to see if he can look into the grass and some more overlays.

I hope to show some results soon.

Torso
Member

posted 03-16-09 05:50 PM EDT (US) 1488 / 2787

Is it possible to make different kinds of Leadership, like one granting only ATT, one granting only DEF, and one granting both of them (like the way it is now)?

PawelS
Member

posted 03-16-09 05:53 PM EDT (US) 1489 / 2787

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

Torso
Member

posted 03-16-09 06:12 PM EDT (US) 1490 / 2787

Darn

poldi
Member

posted 03-17-09 06:18 AM EDT (US) 1491 / 2787

even more interesting would have bee a "negative leadership" for units that are very strong but also so disgusting and so hated by their allies that allied troops fighting beside them all get a -%leadershiplevel%res, -%ledershiplevel�m for example. that would have been great to give those Uber-monstrosities like beholders etc. a minor malus.

but sadly this will be equally inpossible.

DarkLynx
Member

posted 03-18-09 09:33 AM EDT (US) 1492 / 2787

Ok now some questions from another barrel - the map editor. I kindly apologise if you guys have aswered this before but I just have no time to go through the 50 pages of the threadallow creating mountain edges or scarpes:P

1) Do you plan to make some easier setting of water level? Now to make the level up, I have do the trick with placing the cavern tile etc.

2) When I put a city on leveled up terrain, the level goes down automatically. Could it be fixed somehow? I would be happy to see cities on the peaks of mountains.

3) I have some idea but I don't know if it's good and possible to make:
The idea is to create sparps/mountain edges without using mountain tles, just terrain tiles, but when a one tile is few levels higher from the second tile. And both tiles allow to place/move units over it but prevent moments directly from one tile to another because of the level difference (unless the unit has flying or mountaineering). We could create beautiful canyions with that end other eye-candies that would also affect the gameplay

4) How about allowing units with wall climbing to pass walls on the worldmap.

5) Could it be possible to have control of the direction when placing a bridge? Now it is automatically placed cnnecting the two coasts. How about allowing to place bridges along the coast or evenon terrain without water? We could for example use the stone bridge as a biiig city walls that units could walk on them

6) Make more dark wicked shadowland structures

Especially shadow versions of walls and bridges

The Groll
Member

posted 03-18-09 09:55 AM EDT (US) 1493 / 2787

Hi DarkLynx,

6) Make more dark wicked shadowland structures Especially shadow versions of walls and bridges

This is my domain in this project and one of my wishes since the shadwoland first appear in AoW. there was never a true Shadowset of all the structures and all we had soe far looks wrong in this strange land.

This will be changed in upatch 1.5.
I made many new things for the shadowworld and it will never look boring or simple after upatch 1.5.

DarkLynx
Member

posted 03-18-09 10:29 AM EDT (US) 1494 / 2787

Hi Groll,

That's great

I've seen some pics, but I'm dying to see more

Now more questions that I forgot to ask before :P

7) More different shadowgates that would look more like underground entrance/exit than a portal?

8) Disable/enable shadow sickness in editor?

How about some saparate thread just with sample pictures of UP1.5?

The Groll
Member

posted 03-18-09 10:43 AM EDT (US) 1495 / 2787

7) More different shadowgates that would look more like underground entrance/exit than a portal?

Good idea. I have thought about this too. Is still on my to do list.

8) Disable/enable shadow sickness in editor?

I don�t know if this is possible. I think this is hardcoded.
Even when you put grass in the shadowworld and move on this grass you units are still sick so I think it�s the dungeon level itself that gives xou units the shadowsickness.

How about some saparate thread just with sample pictures of UP1.5?

This is Swoltes job and decision. He don�t want to show to much to public and I understand this point of view.
Otherwise there would be no nice surprises when the patch will be released.
And you would like to see a new image every day maybe but we can�t produce so many new things in this short time

DarkLynx
Member

posted 03-18-09 11:15 AM EDT (US) 1496 / 2787

9) The spell of flood (forgot the name - terrain change) does sometimes create a swarm of bridges. Could it be fixed somehow?

10) Is it possible to program a structure to behave like a water tile - prevent movement of landwalking units? If so, how about creating some razable bridges? Thatwould give some strategy planning possibilities.

11) Groll would you do some more versions of the void? Some "light" version that would look like plain sky or clouds?

12) Same as above, but the void-like terrain could be passed only by flying/floating?

13) Maybe some underground terrain/cavern wall type looking like a wood? SO it would make an impression like it is inside of some huge tree?

14) According to the point above - structures of mountain-size trees? or huge-branches-like terrain?

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 03-18-09 12:19 PM EDT (US) 1497 / 2787

9) The spell of flood (forgot the name - terrain change) does sometimes create a swarm of bridges. Could it be fixed somehow?

No, this happens when a tile with a road turns to water

10) Is it possible to program a structure to behave like a water tile - prevent movement of landwalking units? If so, how about creating some razable bridges? Thatwould give some strategy planning possibilities.

Structures like water tile created some bugs, I remember. We have tried to look into this for v14.

11) Groll would you do some more versions of the void? Some "light" version that would look like plain sky or clouds?
12) Same as above, but the void-like terrain could be passed only by flying/floating?

Heheh...

13) Maybe some underground terrain/cavern wall type looking like a wood? SO it would make an impression like it is inside of some huge tree?

Great idea!

14) According to the point above - structures of mountain-size trees? or huge-branches-like terrain?

Greenmonster is working on one (well, he is now busy fathering, but in time he may grow some trunks for us...)

NTJedi
Member

posted 03-21-09 00:22 AM EDT (US) 1498 / 2787

Not sure if any of these are possible, but here are some AI suggestions:

1) During games the Independents do not have a turn time limit. This can be a major problem causing a game to hang. The independents should have the same time limit as the players.

2) AI opponents build the same town units over and over with no variety... it would be great to see mixed batches of units.

3) On the battlefield when attacking a human player the AI opponents will chase a single unit which steps out of the town walls. This allows the defender to use the archer types to gradually pick_off attacking units with virtually no threat. The AI should focus more heavily on breaking the town gates.

4) AI opponents will attack a single enemy unit sitting on top of an empty magic vault allowing the defender to kill many many of its units with virtually no effort. Ideally the AI should either wait nearby or ignore this unit until it's off the magic vault.

I realize it's probably not possible to change the AI programming... but it sure would be appreciated if possible.

There can be only one.
Highlander

Ecthelion_21
Member

posted 03-21-09 06:38 AM EDT (US) 1499 / 2787

A suggestion:

1) Can you change the description of Underground Concealment to reflect that UC only works when the unit is on either dirt, swamp, shadow land or lava terrain AND in the underground.
The description currently reads: "hides the unit from site in the underground". You could change it to "hides the unit from site when in the underground and on either dirt, swamp, shadow land or lava terrain", or something like that.

MagIceFlame
Member

posted 03-22-09 10:10 AM EDT (US) 1500 / 2787

1.
There is some problem with that flood spell.
If you save a game during this spell is active, it will cause that the crops in the reloaded game are destroyd, even if they are of your own cities.
You loose a lot of income cause you loaded game.
Will that problem be fixed?

2.
Another problem is that the live domain spell does not change swamps back into grassland. I don't know if this is correct.

3.
In the german version some german texts have been replaced and mixed with english texts.(It is not a real problem but I like to mention it. Better knowing a problem that wasn't a real one than knowing it not)

I really can't wait using UPatch 1.5. You do a great job. Keep it up!

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