You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

General Discussion & Suggestions
Moderated by ChowGuy, Swolte, Ziggurat Mason

Hop to:    
loginhomeregisterhelprules
Bottom
Topic Subject: Triumph Update
« Previous Page  1 ··· 4 5 6  Next Page »
posted 04-13-05 01:27 PM EDT (US)   
Apologies for being so silent lately. No worries, Triumph hasn't gone off to to some sunny island and live off AoW royalties. We are hard at work on our new game, which is not TBS and is not AoW related. This game is really something new. I think it will appeal to AoW gamers who are not TBS fundamentalists and also take a liking to other, more action oriented games. (--Nope, its not an RTS!). You'll find it has plenty of AoW-like atmosphere, some AoW references even conceptually there is some overlap. So far the game has been great fun to make, and itís a *riot* to play.

Will there ever be an AoW3? Totally depends on the economics, as games are expensive things to make. Right now, the market isn't looking good. Even the top selling game of the genre, HoMM, is now being developed in Eastern Europe where wages are lower and alcohol is cheap. The same has happened to other old-school PC genres; including single player RPGs, flight simulators and city builders. However AoW and its fans are very dear to us. When there is a possibility we'd sure consider to continue with the series. We have the ideas. We have the tech. We own the IP. We have the fans.

For now, we hope you'll have an open mind to our new game.
We should be able to disclose something in the not too distant future!

Take care, and keep whacking those halflings.

Best Regards,
Lennart Sas,
Triumph Studios

Replies:
posted 06-30-05 01:36 PM EDT (US)     151 / 183  
Well, some strategy...
Anyway, nobody commented on my previous post
I just think it's interesting that in the original, the AI was enchanting pretty well, but they didn't carry this over to the other games. It's too bad the it would have to be a change of code, because an AI that does not use enchants is, I believe, one of the major gripes of people who play SP.

"This post, board, and anyone that came in contact with it will spontaneously combust in thirty seconds. run, run now!!" - Llockedragon-Llockedragon at yahoo dot com
posted 06-30-05 02:15 PM EDT (US)     152 / 183  
well,Lockedragon, its no use to get upset by it now cause no one will improve the AI and allow it to use enchants more. there is only one solution, play this game not sp.

only one thing is certain: the AI sucks in all those games. so why play it then? whats so hard to play this game either pbem or online? online is harder but its possible to have a nice game with someone who is equally weak or strong as you and has some hours to play. 1-2 are enough to play a quick 1vs1. even that is much better than to play against the AI once you have mastered this game.

so, i think you guys have not mastered this game even though i see some of you (ravinhood!) posting for years. that makes me really wonder, since it makes no sense to complain about the AI if there is a substantial MP. And we all know that no AI can ever be a challenge since game AI's are no real AI's that really can react to something. fighting for a good AI is a hopless cause.


Honored Core Balance Team Member of UPatch 1.4
Also known as TirAsleen
Dwiggsvillain

[This message has been edited by DarkMystery (edited 06-30-2005 @ 02:18 PM).]

posted 06-30-05 02:26 PM EDT (US)     153 / 183  
I do want to point out that the AI in Shadow Magic does cast enchantments, although I have to agree with DM that they will not do such a good (and frequent) job at it as human opponents would. It also appears to be situational.

AI is often very busy with summons and thats why it doesn't enchant very often, I suspect. I've been playing some testgames in single player and pbem (with AI), and I dunno if an unintended patchchange caused the AI to enchant more! , but I've seen stoneskin, bless and enchant weapons cast on heroes and units!



Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

[This message has been edited by swolte (edited 06-30-2005 @ 02:27 PM).]

posted 06-30-05 02:32 PM EDT (US)     154 / 183  
it would be fun if the AI would give its lvl3 and especially lvl4 units more enchant priority.

seeing hordes of sphinxes, karaghs and other units created by the AI but no enchant on them, but weak heroes with 1-3 enchants is annoying. high lvl units are much more important, especially for the AI. the AI summons a lot of crap it should summon lvl3 and lvl4 units not lvl1-2 units and cast weak global spells. in that regard i would like to see the AI cheating it should never pay any mana upkeep. since casting magic is limited enough, but building units in cities not.


Honored Core Balance Team Member of UPatch 1.4
Also known as TirAsleen
Dwiggsvillain

[This message has been edited by DarkMystery (edited 06-30-2005 @ 02:32 PM).]

posted 06-30-05 06:38 PM EDT (US)     155 / 183  

Quoted from [c=red:

swolte AI is often very busy with summons and thats why it doesn't enchant very often, I suspect. I've been playing some testgames in single player and pbem (with AI), and I dunno if an unintended patchchange caused the AI to enchant more! , but I've seen stoneskin, bless and enchant weapons cast on heroes and units!

Very cool!

Darkmystery, I wasn't saying that I don't know the game well. It's just that for me, while I have had tons of online experience previously, now I am unable to play on the computer in my home that has internet, due to time constraints (and I don't 'really' want to do PBEM). So, most often when I play, it is on my my computer, which unfortunately, does not have internet, therefore, I play SP alot. I agree that the computer is not much of a challenge (unless the RMG gives you a REALLY bad startup, and surrounding area)
I was merely making on observation on the normal mode of the computer using enchantments in SM vs. the original. Swolte's comment though, is certainly intruiging.


"This post, board, and anyone that came in contact with it will spontaneously combust in thirty seconds. run, run now!!" - Llockedragon-Llockedragon at yahoo dot com
posted 06-30-05 07:02 PM EDT (US)     156 / 183  

Quoted from Dark Mystery:

seeing hordes of sphinxes, karaghs and other units created by the AI but no enchant on them, but weak heroes with 1-3 enchants is annoying. high lvl units are much more important, especially for the AI. the AI summons a lot of crap it should summon lvl3 and lvl4 units not lvl1-2 units and cast weak global spells.

Well, this is not a fault of the AI as much as it is a flaw in the underlying architecture of the game. AoW:SM, as it is structured right now (assuming you don't do something sqrewy with the build options), produces more level 3 units than level 1 or 2 units. This does not make logical sense - the fodder would be more common: it's why they're fodder. What the game needs is for there to be some insentive or imperative to have more low-level units (more flanking bonuses, for example), and to reserve the high-levels for elites.

Also, heroes in AoWII were powerful enough that they obviated a significant portion of the game, and people complained, so they got excessively nerfed. IMO heroes should be more useful in AoW:SM than they are, although the uber-heroes of AoW1 are excessive. Generally, any feature that obviates a significant portion of the game is too powerful, or if it obviates itself, it is too weak. This isn't an AI problem; it's a game mechanics problem.


-Heir to Beleriand, Heir to the Silmaril, Chosen of Illuvatar-

GM of the Glory of the Past Middle Earth Roleplay Thread

Creator of the New Keepers Campaign
posted 06-30-05 11:43 PM EDT (US)     157 / 183  
i hardly see enchanted lvl4 units, while there can be a lot of them on xl maps. most of the time they are only enchanted if they are in a wizard tower + hall of enchantment.

to what the AI usally produce on a rmg map is either lots of machines or lots of lvl3 units of the same type. especially on maps that are not XL.

rmg against the AI should be played differntly. make a rmg map in the editor and edit it. put war shrines into tigran cities for example, high lvl spells and additional units to help the AI out. put towers on strategic positions with lots of cannons and other powerful ranged units. put lvl4 flyer area guards over the mountains.

as usual play with houserules, meaning no AI exploits. and diplomacy war only no trade.

a good and fair AI rmg map has to be edited


Honored Core Balance Team Member of UPatch 1.4
Also known as TirAsleen
Dwiggsvillain
posted 07-01-05 04:39 PM EDT (US)     158 / 183  
Well what me and a friend did to make up for the AI is this.

designate certain races for AI only. Then I would edit the units and give them enchantments since the AI didint do it much.

I would really stack the AI also since they did a terrible job upgrading, and often you get hordes of level 2 units, and dumb things like 7 karaghs with 1 slow unit like a cannon. So all the towns in thier areas were instantly able to make level 4 units.

Also took flying off alot of units because they ai has no clue what to do about flying units.


Had to edit movement of alot of units also as speed was very powerful in the game and the AI had no idea how to leverage TI so most units were either 36-40 movement.


In the end just couldnt do enough things to make the AI play smart enough. They would just get immense amounts of units to through at us which in turn levels are units faster/heros faster.

Either they overwhelmed us with numbers or we mowed them down. Could never get them to play remotely smart, and it was just to hard to balance where we made the AI units strong enough ( by putting on strike types and boosting stats to make up for the fact they dont buff units ).

I mean we had some sick things come at us like battalions of 80-150 level 4 units, but in the end we could whittle them away most times, because the AI is stupid. Like they will take over a city with 80 units leave 2 units behind and split up the entire army to smaller parts while you got an army of 40 units a few steps away that you then use to pick apart those 80 untis the AI just for no reason split up into small armies.


Turn based needs a bit of work also because in the end we always waited for the AI to commit and make all its moves then we picked them apart, spread out as much as we wanted to, and because the AI takes soo long to make its first moves we could regroup and stack big armies back up that we split at the end of the last turn.


Essentially you get 2 turns to the AI's 1. Unfortunately setting a turn timer doesnt help much as the AI seems to be able to ingore timer length on turns.

The last straw for us how came as we would develope these monstrous games and reacht he 80+ turn mark and the game became unplayable.

AI turns would take over 40 minutes to complete and it just got boring watching them take forever to move units back and forth serving no purpose.

Then the few times we perservered those extruciating long AI turns, we finally would get to the point our gamefile got corrupted. Meaning 80 hours wasted away.


Anyone else every have this problem? Would love to know a fix. This happened everytime, was big maps, long games and alot of units out, always multiplayer with us vs the rest of the AI.

posted 07-01-05 07:45 PM EDT (US)     159 / 183  
After the above post, that's what makes the MOM AI so great, it certainly doesn't play the back n forth pathing and when it starts coming for you it never stops and it builds all kinds of units and uses enchantments "A LOT" and on the impossible difficulty it uses magic like it was free candy. MOM is still the better game. Unbalanced races, can have huge maps and lots of units, hardly any slow down whatsoever for the AI to think and you can forget exploiting it in diplomacy, ALL the AI hate you rather quickly and all will come knocking on your doors from every side. Best AI next to HOMM II.
posted 07-01-05 11:36 PM EDT (US)     160 / 183  
this time the AI was much harder.

i created a medium rmg map for 2 players me and 1 AI in the editor. usually this is piece of cake. but i made the AI tigrans with war shrine. gave the AI additional troops and an additional city with wizard tower and powerful guards. additionally i gave the AI manticores. fast lvl3 flyer with some melee power allows for extra fast expansion.

the AI furthermore got all wizard skills(peacekeeper instead conqueror) and some important spells, such as phoenix, haste domain, stone skin and air mastery.(AI was set to air specialist)

made also mountain and sea barriers to make it not so easy to reach someones starting city.

set the AI to emperor and gave it 5000 gold and 5000 mana.

it was a hell of a game.*lol* the AI came at turn20-30 while i pumped out new cities to get the ungodly gold income as usual. then i saw at turn30-40 phoenix summons in stacks. lvl4 units of all kind, air galley, doomwolf, roc, silver medalled sphinx and lvl3 mammoth rider, knights, manticores and pit guards. the amazing and unbelievable part is, those units came in stacks and all at once out from multiple directions - out from solid rock, heh. air galleys dropped lvl4 and lvl3 units in my backlands. at the front there was one wave after the other and after killing them even more came just the next 2 turns again from all sides. indeed they came faster than i could kill them and finally i had to just find the captials and kill the wizard several times to end it.

when the AI gets enough resources and cheats it does play amazingly fast on the global map. faster than many MP guys i played with. most of the time i had to defend my realm against hordes of phoenixes and air galleys. AI did cast air mastery and haste domain on a regular basis. but no real enchants. no stone skin on any unit or enchant weapon.

summary:

the AI was very good in the offensive. turn sequence hardly stopped it since it does effectively use to rush units out fast. the weak spot was the TC and captiol defense. the strong points was very fast expansion and massing of lvl4 units. summoning phoenixes in hordes early on. i had to battle phonixes in the first until to the last battle. there was hardly a battle there were not at least 3 phoenixes participating there. and those are horrible to banish or control since they stay at the AI side once they resurgence

if i would play this only FC the AI even might have won this.


i never played such a game vs the AI in a common rmg map except when i was playing a xl map. but this was 1vs1 and medium with no underground or schadowrealms and average settings. however it felt more epic than many large games i played.

if you find the AI non challenging or boring i highly recommend to give the AI a lot more resources and units to start with......and lvl4 summon spells! without heavy cheating the AI is unable to utilize its true potential!


Honored Core Balance Team Member of UPatch 1.4
Also known as TirAsleen
Dwiggsvillain

[This message has been edited by DarkMystery (edited 07-02-2005 @ 00:05 AM).]

posted 07-16-05 07:36 AM EDT (US)     161 / 183  
any news on the new title yet? its been over 3 motnhs since the "not too distant future" and any kind of update would be nice!
posted 07-17-05 08:34 AM EDT (US)     162 / 183  
not quite yet... we're fully in "soon" mode now...
posted 07-17-05 10:11 AM EDT (US)     163 / 183  
Well, i think (and i believe that i also read this somewhere, probably on Gamespot) that since the arrival of Advance Wars, Fire Emblem and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance the number of TBS gamers are constantly increasing, though i don't know if they manage to turn their GBA off and play PC games :P, so i don't believe the genre is dying.

To keep fans happier during our long wait to a hypothetical new AoW game/expansion, i think that a great idea would be to make an update of the editor, so more aspects from the game such as spell library, tech tree and other stuff could be customized, then let the modmakers do the hard work .
Doing that shouldn't be that much work as making a whole game patch (at least it doesn't seem so). Maybe Triumph could even release some new resources ,maybe units GFX that didn't make it to the final version, i'm sure you hard drives are full of stuff that wasn't released

posted 07-17-05 11:55 AM EDT (US)     164 / 183  

Quote:

To keep fans happier during our long wait to a hypothetical new AoW game/expansion, i think that a great idea would be to make an update of the editor, so more aspects from the game such as spell library, tech tree and other stuff could be customized, then let the modmakers do the hard work .
Doing that shouldn't be that much work as making a whole game patch (at least it doesn't seem so). Maybe Triumph could even release some new resources ,maybe units GFX that didn't make it to the final version, i'm sure you hard drives are full of stuff that wasn't released

that would be great

posted 07-19-05 04:05 PM EDT (US)     165 / 183  
Faded, if you are looking for a challenge against the AI, I would suggest trying the scenario "Athendore II", which can be downloaded from heavengames. It is a beautifully made map, and a very tough challenge. Basically, it puts five players (either PC's or AI's) up against a team of three *very* strong AI's. It is a brilliantly designed map; you have to worry about threats from every direction, which is compounded by some cleverly linked portals. The first time my friend and I played it, we got overwhelmed and decided to start over with a bit better knowledge of the map. The second time, we were able to do it, but it was a back-and-forth challenge a lot longer than we expected.

We played, from what I gathered from comments on the map, the two harder wizards, undead (who starts out with a heavy locational disadvantage underground), and frostling (who has a wide, hard to defend 'empire area' and is also a technophobe), so you may want to try playing as those races if you want the hardest challenge possible. We played on Emporer, of course. Take heed that the turns can get very long, so expect that and maybe have something else to amuse you while you wait.

Hope that helps, sorry to keep moving this discussion farther from the original topic.

-iallik

posted 07-22-05 03:38 PM EDT (US)     166 / 183  
Well, if you Triumph guys need ever some inspiration, just check the AoW3 Wish List topic (^_-)

Oh no! I'm even taking for granted that there'll be an AoW3 >_<

posted 07-27-05 03:45 PM EDT (US)     167 / 183  
hmm, one can guess, what the new game must look like if you just check out the next gen console game job offers at the Triumph website.
posted 07-27-05 04:05 PM EDT (US)     168 / 183  
I looked at it but couldn't guess. What do you read out of that? (Beyond that the next game will also come out on XBox).
posted 07-28-05 08:43 AM EDT (US)     169 / 183  
some great news from revoltage about soul quest in reply to my email:

> Is there any new news on Soul Quest or has this title been
> cancelled?
>
> Thank you.

Hey,

Nah, its not cancelled :-) We are preparing demo for Leipizg Game Convention. It takes lot of time 'cause our team is pretty small at the moment, but the project is still alive and kickin'

Take Care,
Marcin @ revoltage

posted 07-28-05 11:44 AM EDT (US)     170 / 183  
Thanks for the update Markgil.

Soul Quest does look very promising. I did not find much detailed information about it, but maybe after the Leipzig show, we will get more info.

I hope the advanced city economy they promise is really advanced and that the tactical battles are as good and maybe better as in AoW:SM. The graphic looks very nice and it is still very easy to see everything.

I think there is a quite big market for turn based fantasy strategy games with real 3D graphics and advanced city economy, tactical combat and also some role play elements in it. I will follow the development closely.

The screenshots look great. This is what I would expect for AoW3.

posted 07-28-05 12:58 PM EDT (US)     171 / 183  
no problem. i am glad it's still being made. the screenshots & features are very interesting so i hope they can put it all together to make a great game. there are very few good TBS's being made anymore and who knows what will happen with warlords 5 and aow 3. when is the convention you mentioned btw? Marty gave me this response when i asked about more info & a release date:

We are going to send (give during Game Convention) evaluation demo w/ features doc, movies and design doc (after nda) directly to publishers.

Launch date depends on publisher's wishlist regarding game features etc - it's hard to estimate.

Take Care,
Marty


posted 07-28-05 01:24 PM EDT (US)     172 / 183  
The game convention in Leipzig is from 18-21 of July. Here is the webpage in German and English.

http://www.gc-germany.de/

And when we look at the participant list, we see:

Revoltec GmbH

so I guess we will see some more Soul Quest snapshots in some game magazines sometime after that.

PS: It seems Triumph will not participate. Hmm, no demo of the new game. (making sad face!)

[This message has been edited by Cherusker (edited 07-28-2005 @ 01:25 PM).]

posted 07-28-05 01:55 PM EDT (US)     173 / 183  
It's in August, not July - it would have been a week ago if it was like that
posted 07-28-05 02:01 PM EDT (US)     174 / 183  
Oops. Sorry. You are right. Time-travel would be too much for a game convention. But it would be a clever PR gag.
posted 07-28-05 02:43 PM EDT (US)     175 / 183  
speaking of german games, anyone ever play spellforce? i know its not a tbs but spellforce 2 looks pretty interesting to me and i might give it a shot depending on the reviews.
posted 07-28-05 02:55 PM EDT (US)     176 / 183  
yes, i play spellforce too. just finished the order of dawn campaign 3 weeks ago and play now the 2 exp breath of winter and shadow of the phoenix. its a good sp game i think similar to diciples.(both great games for sp)

i wouldn't play it mp though......aow:sm is far superior to that and for rts kohanII is far superior on that area too. and those games have a bigger focus on strategy.

spellforce and diciples are both too rpgish, cause its certainly all about how you develop your chars you won't find that as much in aow:sm and kohanII.


Honored Core Balance Team Member of UPatch 1.4
Also known as TirAsleen
Dwiggsvillain
posted 07-28-05 03:47 PM EDT (US)     177 / 183  
from what ive read sf2 is supposed to more strategy oriented than the 1st one. i loved the 1st kohan but cant seem to get into the much simplified kohan 2. disciples is another game i never liked. i have high hopes for heroes 5 and soul quest and might take a look at the dominions 3 demo to see if its worth buying. i am also waiting to find out about triumphs new game and enlight's warlords champions, both of which have yet to be announced.
posted 07-28-05 06:38 PM EDT (US)     178 / 183  
About 2 weeks ago Triumph said they were in "soon" mode. They may want to consider delaying their release until November otherwise they'll be going head to head with DungeonSiege_2 and DragonShard.

There can be only one.
Highlander
posted 07-28-05 08:00 PM EDT (US)     179 / 183  

Quote:

i loved the 1st kohan but cant seem to get into the much simplified kohan 2.

but is simplification a bad thing to have in a RTS? for the complex stuff we have the TBS system. i found a lot of fun in kohanII and the graphic engine is superior to that of kohanI, while it sucks compared to a grand game like aom. kohanII got almost no support by the developers, no expansive intro movie, no challenging campaign, no expansion in sight or kohanIII.

i don't like developers that treat their flagship games like this...and it think its sad that there is almost no real advertising for tbs games or games like kohan, so no one knows it and could buy it. and that is mainly cause they never heard about it, not cause people play only ego shooters and RTS. i know quite some people that would like to play such games if they just knew such games even exists or are to their liking.



Honored Core Balance Team Member of UPatch 1.4
Also known as TirAsleen
Dwiggsvillain

[This message has been edited by DarkMystery (edited 07-28-2005 @ 08:01 PM).]

posted 07-29-05 03:32 AM EDT (US)     180 / 183  

Quote:

About 2 weeks ago Triumph said they were in "soon" mode. They may want to consider delaying their release until November otherwise they'll be going head to head with DungeonSiege_2 and DragonShard.

Heh, no worries on that note.

posted 07-29-05 08:45 AM EDT (US)     181 / 183  

Quote:

About 2 weeks ago Triumph said they were in "soon" mode.


Triumph is always in soon mode...
posted 07-29-05 10:12 AM EDT (US)     182 / 183  
Guess the quote: "It's done when it's done."

It is roaming the depths in eternal hunger, devouring all and everything, far from the light, lost in the shadows, alone, wandering, searching, evermore...
posted 05-24-12 12:25 PM EDT (US)     183 / 183  
Genosse Lennart Sas, What is your next game?

Die Partei hat immer Recht.
« Previous Page  1 ··· 4 5 6  Next Page »
Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » General Discussion & Suggestions » Triumph Update
Top
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register
Hop to:    
Age of Wonders 2 Heaven | HeavenGames