Ok, some more:

- The Gremlin's description implies (and not too subtly either) that it can use pixie dust which it can't (not even with medals).

- Self Destruct seams to get a priority over other types of attacks/abilities so the AI uses the Goblin Tank as an overpriced Bomber (although I have a feeling this has been mentioned before).

- Goblins die a lot more now...oh wait, that's normal.

-Oh yeah, once I got a Warlord and a Bruiser as a reward for an easy quest from the War Shrine, seamed a bit much for an easy quest but maybe that's just me...

[This message has been edited by Jean_Luc (edited 10-19-2007 @ 06:05 PM).]

I don't seem to have an image for purger in my spell book

Noticed today double gravity works on faery drag hatchings, so seems on adult ones too and they still have great stats of 8 def and 24 hp for a very very small price of 420 gold, so Stranger will u show us how great they are in battle? and whole fey folk seems even winning in contest of unbelievable might with lizards : no decent early units; only ranged lev3; and super mighty lev4, which can kill even a knight, if will mob 2-3 vs one

Quoted from Air:

and whole fey folk seems even winning in contest of unbelievable might with lizards : no decent early units; only ranged lev3; and super mighty lev4, which can kill even a knight, if will mob 2-3 vs one

I'm trying to convert this into comprehensible and non-sarcastic English in my mind - it's the lizards you're complaining about here, if I understand you correctly, and you're saying that they are an even harder race to play than Fey Folk?

I think he's complaining about both, more precisely that the Fey Folk are close to becoming as weak as the Lizardmen.

Oh, and I started a scenario with a life specialist wizard and the image of the purger in the spell book looked ok so your problem might be a localized one Roger...

[This message has been edited by Jean_Luc (edited 10-20-2007 @ 01:48 PM).]

fey folk seems even worse

I had the image with dwiggs 1.4 patch, so I'm not sure what happened...

I have yet to play a decent game with the Fey Folk but from what I've seen their late game units seam pretty strong while the early ones are quite iffy and Lizardmen always, to me, resembled beefed up Goblins (reliance on poison strikes/abilities/immunity) but not nearly as cost effective. I won't comment on the Fey Folk but some things I think Lizards might use are:

-An early unit with block (maybe give it to Frog Rider at silver, or right away and move venomous spit to gold or something; would be nice if the Lizard Spearman could get a shield in one of his hands so as to look like a 'Lizard Hoplite' (gains block of course) so it doesn't get completely overshadowed by the much more versatile Frog Rider.

-Turn Undead for the Shaman

-And maybe, let's say, a throw spear for the Stegadon Rider (you know how those "baskets"/little forts on those large animals' backs often house javeliniers or some such ranged troops) to give it just a little pinch of versatility.

There are other ways to buff them of course; this was just at the top of my head.

Roger, maybe you could check if the image still works correctly with the 1.4. Also you might try to just reinstall all the Dwiggs patches (you wouldn't have to uninstall anything this way so it wouldn't be too much of a hassle). Sometimes I accidentally use incorrect custom resources by choosing the "a" version of the beta instead of "b", although the image should (and does) still appear normally even with this kind of mistake. Hopefully Stranger will have a better solution...

[This message has been edited by Jean_Luc (edited 10-20-2007 @ 02:22 PM).]

Don't have an image for the Black Plague spell, either

Stranger and I will be travelling around this mighty
country for about a week, so we won't be able to respond
for that time. Clearly, we will charge upon the posts like
sharks upon their prey once we are back...

Take care everyone
(and behave!)

Correct me if I am wrong, but, doesn't Dwiggs overwrite the original Spellicons.ilb of the game?

At least for me I don't have many Dwiggs spellicons, because I reinstalled and got the original spellicons.ilb.

I actually wanted to suggest that dwiggs has a Dwiggsspellicons.ilb, there is no need to overwrite original files of the game

Lizards: Some suggestions (I also endorse Jean_Luc ones):
All Lizards: Lightning Protection at Silver Medal.
- Wyvern Hatchling: + Cave Crawling
- Dragon Hatchling: + Night Vision
- Frog Rider + Block no medal needed, +1 HP
- Shaman: +Turn Undead, +1 HP
- Pteradon Rider: + Night Vision. +Enchanted Weapon at Silver or Gold for a deadlier Spear.
- Stegadon Rider: Willpower at Silver instead of Gold. +2 HP, after comparing to frostling Mammoth Rider. Don't Like throw Spear as Jean_Luc said because Pteradon Rider has it.
- Basilisk: better RES, maybe +2?

Fey Folk: they are indeed hard to play, least against humans. Very frail Units.

Undeads: As I suggested before, Holy Protection on Silver for all And Swordsman start with Death Strike. Though early Undead armies will still be destroyed by Archon units and shooting stars...

[This message has been edited by Merkraad (edited 10-20-2007 @ 06:07 PM).]

Hi!

I am indeed going to transverse this sacred land and show Joep its might and splendour. In the meantime, I hope you will all be good enough to comment on a "C" file, which has a link available at the thread topic.

Thanks,

bj

That download gives you a 1731kb file ending in .c

Is that what we are supposed to end up with?

My PC loads it as a text document which is full of computer code

You beat me to it Roger. Yeah, it's a 1.7mb notepad file full of code. Maybe we're supposed to copy/paste the code to some other file.

Guys, try to rename the file from .c to .exe and double click on it, and something magical will happen. I think Stranger has been testing you....

The problem is that my pc simply shows it as a notepad file called "Dwigmod5" and I can't access the extension directly. It is instead listed as a ".c" type of file under properties and beneath the file name. How cruel of Stranger to jest with us so...

[This message has been edited by Jean_Luc (edited 10-20-2007 @ 07:47 PM).]

Quoted from Stranger:

-Undead Necromancer is get beefed up

Is that Dutch for "Necromancer was beefed up"?

Jeanluc, you have to set windows to show the file extensions.
Open explorer (the file explorer, not internet), then select "Functions" (maybe it's called 'properties' in English, it's the 2nd last menu from the right, next to the help menu). The lowest 'item' in this menu is called "directory properties" or something like it, select this one. This menu has three sub-menus, 'general', 'show' and 'file types'. Select the middle one, 'show' (or whatever it's called in English, I am using a Danish Windows. In this menu there are a number of advanced properties you can adjust. You have to UNclick the item "hide file type names for known file types". After you've done this you'll be able to see all file extensions, and then you can rename them in Windows.

(Btw, the true Picard would have known this )

Alternatively I can upload the .exe to Rapidshare (done, see link)
http://rapidshare.com/files/64086160/Dwigmod5c.exe.html

[This message has been edited by Gandalf_DK (edited 10-21-2007 @ 05:53 AM).]

Thanks Gandalf, it's a bit different on my ver. of XP but I remembered the menu you were talking about (the one were I go to "show hidden files and folder" ). I probably should've thought of it but I so rarely delve there. *sigh*

Still, I don't think they have file extensions like that in the 24th century and Picard is used to giving voice commands anyway.

Ok, time to check out that beefy Necromancer...

[This message has been edited by Jean_Luc (edited 10-21-2007 @ 06:24 AM).]

Game is crashing to desktop for all of us when someone tries to cast Chain Lightning in TC?

Roger pointed out to me in GS that Chain Lightning was set to a radius of 20. Changed it to 2 and uploaded a modified 5.0c version here - http://rapidshare.com/files/64194969/Dwigmod5.zip

Note: Its a zip file with the resources folder so you'll have to unzip it under User/Resources.

Edit: Changed the uploaded file to include the original 5c exe uploaded by Stranger as there might have been some ILB changes too. So, download the file, run the exe first and then replace the Dwigmod5.0c folder in the User/Resources with the one in the zip file

[This message has been edited by Timelord (edited 10-21-2007 @ 02:57 PM).]

I was just killed by an army of necromancers and spectres....so I'd like to ask if people think their holy weakness compensates sufficiently for their stats?
Necromancer costs 110 gold, spectre 80 gold.
They are immune to death and poison and seduction, and both have death strike, physical protection AND life stealing; the necromancer also has resurgence, black bolts, animate corpse and MM1, while the spectre has energy drain AND cause fear. Seems to me that in a game without life magic or holy based attacks, it's hard for an undead player to lose; all he needs is to mass these units really.
I mean, it's not that I don't want the undeads to be playable, but this seems overpowered; already the situation is so with most undead units that if you just win the battle, you can't lose any units (resurgence), but having life stealing and physical protection on their 2 level 2 staple attack units, does that make sense?

At any rate I'm playing undead the next couple of times, then we'll see.

Some tac combat results:
Spectre kills pitguard + dune watch (the pit guard succeeded twice, then missed twice with
strangle; in melee combat it didn't have a chance)
Spectre kills shikari + wolf rider (but another spectre lost to the same units)
Elfish mage kills spectres with 1 or 2 holy bolts (it has holy champ and MM4 or something)

Another thing that puzzles me: It's happened twice now, with a camp site with a pixie, and 2 pixie warriors in. Even when I am neutral - or undead, as in the latest case, the 2 pixie warriors will join me, while the pixie will remain hostile so I have to fight it. But it doesn't quite make sense to me that I am able to recruit two pixie warriors from a camp site when I am undead (with pacifist+constructor).

[This message has been edited by Gandalf_DK (edited 10-23-2007 @ 01:48 PM).]

The trouble with undead imo is that they're extremely strong against units/races that aren't equipped to deal with them but at the same time they're very weak against those who are. The Spectre is imo one of the best Warhall units that you can easily send against let's say a Knight (and many other lvl 3s) but on the other side it immediately goes down when facing holy bolts/strike. And resurgence + phys prot. provides the Undead with amazing resilience and "continuity" so to speak. Still, I like them a lot as they are now because they actually feel like the Undead and not just regular (living) units that have the label "undead" attached to them.

Gandalf is probably right: Spectres and Necromancers are all you really need + a bunch of skeleton swordsmen to provide a really tough kind of fodder.

[This message has been edited by Jean_Luc (edited 10-23-2007 @ 09:54 AM).]

Gandalf try to use magic and enchanted weapon, it must help

Changing undead units:
I suggest the spectre loses life stealing, as a minimum.
Maybe the undead weaknesses could be changed a bit, so they aren't so unsidedly weak against holy strike/bolts (and archons)?
Spectre could use holy weakness and get fire weakness instead; others could lose holy weakness and get reduced stats or magic weakness.

It seems to be that most races who don't have holy strike/bolts on their units are at a great disadvantage towards the undead; this includes goblins, dark elves, orcs (not shadow demons, they have a lot of fire based attacks that at least bypass the physical protection), humans (hopeless), tigrans (unless you count their fire cats, that's what I was using against the necromancers, but their relatively high res made the fire bolts miss), nomads,
frostlings, elves, dwarves and halflings (who have the wolf hound though, but it comes late in the building queue) = 10 races. Archons are super against the undead, and the fey folk have many units with magic strike and cheap holy bolters - 2 races.

@Air: Yes, enchanted weapon is so cheap in dwiggs that it's easy to cast on the units you need it for...Once you've done it, you've overcome the physical protection of the spectres and necromancers, but then they still have death strike, life stealing, energy drain, resurgence and the immunities...

[This message has been edited by Gandalf_DK (edited 10-23-2007 @ 01:48 PM).]

Unless you're a life spec. I don't think you can rely on offensive spells to cause enough damage and it's not like magic is your special advantage since the Undead player will have her own spells (probably even more of them because of the research bonus). Magic Weapon (+ other similar much more costly enchantments) works of course but, as it seams to me, sometimes it tends to ends up "buried" under other spells on the research list and isn't available as early as I'd like it to be. Also on some smaller maps (with less mana available) even the relatively low cost of enchant weapon upkeep (especially if you need to enchant whole stacks) can be a significant strain on your mana income. But maybe it's not that bad and just a small edge against the Undead is enough to beat them. Did I say I like them as they are now?

edit: Dark Elves usually have magic/lightning strike so they should fare somewhat better and the Dwarves have the Cleric (holy strike/champion + turn undead), Runemaster has fire st. and the fire arrows of their balistae shouldn't be discounted either I'd say. Although when Death Knights take the stage...well, that's when the "harvest" truly begins. Unless Knights with ench. weapon. or Ivory Sirens show up.

[This message has been edited by Jean_Luc (edited 10-23-2007 @ 02:17 PM).]

I agree with most of Gandalf's points, except on the proposed changes.
- Spectre didn't have lifestealing in the earlier versions (I think). Definitely should lose it.
- Necro should lose resurgence and phys prot (I guess these are in the C version?)
- Edited out comment about Zombie. Thanks Jean_Luc. Must have been confused with Mummy, I think.

Thematically, I think the Undead should retain their holy weaknesses.
The biggest problem with Undead is their speed and the ability to move units to the front - where most other races are better, either with transports or faster units. This is a big disadvantage in recovering from battles or shoring up defenses or bolstering an attacking army. So, while they do have good (even slightly overpowered units), they do have their own weaknesses.

I think 10 races is also an exaggeration. Most of the DE units have special strikes (magic, lightning, cold), Frosties' frost bolts/cold strike works against most undead units except Spectre and Reaper, Dwarves have clerics and good machines and many races have access to the catapults too. Nomads and Elves have unmatched speed in the game which compensates for their slightly frailer and non-magic strikes.

About changes, there's a halfling hero (forgot the name) who has no strike, healing, pixie dust, taunt and spellcasting 1. Should he be able to lvl up only via a spell a day or a ranged item?

[This message has been edited by Timelord (edited 10-23-2007 @ 05:24 PM).]

Right now the Zombie has 6 att, 3 def, 5 dmg, 5 res, 12 hp and 22 mov, I'd say he's (it's?) fine. He does have cause fear, an interesting ability for a lvl 0 unit but kinda appropriate for a zombie.

Agreed that the logistical problems of the Undead are a valid weakness. I'm so used to Spectres having life stealing but if any of their abilities had to go I guess that would be it. Although it's major factor for them during combat. I think removing life st. from them would affect Spectres more profoundly than it seams at 1st sight.

Spectre have few hp, low res and no resurgence(lifesteal and energy drain were on them even in dwiggs 4.5),until they killed gandalf one time none ever notice they should lost any ability. if gandalf played tigrans there were serpent priests to kill spectre in 1 turn and later mystics. all races have priests that are highly effective against undead, if players cant remember it - its not balance problem and necromancer became lev3 isn't it? so if undead got it, most of 10 races that gandalf mentioned could get their lev3 which are with magic strike at least (mystic, chaplain,gargoyle or dwarf priest,djin or chieftain,executioner or storm mage, ivory siren,any fey folk,any demon,any archon) so here are goblins, orcs, frostlings,lizards and halflings who dont have units with natural magic strike, but halflings have priest with holy strike and holy bolts and i m sure players must manage how to cast enchant weapon on their lev3 if they want to win frostlings have priests with turn undead for spectre and cold strike on everything for other undead (also they often have fireball ), goblins have bombers or rams, orcs have rams and again if there are lev3 units already - orc player must find way how to enchant warlords So only lizards left and everyone already know they are weak (but big frog's swallow can work on any low hp undead very good)

after checking editor appeared necromancer is lev3, but it still in warhall. need to move it to champ guild or race structure and problem will be solved