It's true, I don't really know why or how Stranger puts up with us, but we are glad that he does!

That's why he takes vacations Just kidding. I've been very busy lately with school and work, but thankfully Timelord has been here to save the day

I'll probably stay quite busy, alas, but please continue to put forth and ideas, suggestions, or fixes that you have, and we (Timelord is really the one doing all the work) will try to implement them in a patch that...that may not be so far away.

>>There are other things coming that I'm sure will be nice (visible icon for elven horsebacks, etc)<<

I've posted this in the download for the mod, but if you didn't notice it:
Quick fixes until the patch comes out:


--No Elven Horse (unit/Elf_Cavalry.ILB)
1. use AoWSMSetup.exe select another mod
2. open AoWSMEd.exe> resource >edit
settings > unitbodies tab> loo for the elven horseman >select the elven horseman icon > copy (ctrl+c)
3.close editor
4. use AoWSMSetup.exe select Dwiggs5.0 (or its copy)
5. open AoWSMEd.exe> resource >edit
settings > unitbodies tab> then select the missing blue blank square between the tree and the guy and paste (ctrl+c).
6. It should appear in there >save
6.close editor
7.test mod

--No Fairy icon in spellbook
open up editor AoWSMEd.exe
go to settings > wizards > spells > fairy
then to ISL and change the frametable number from 9 to 8.

Would it be fair to assume that the Centaur Maurader should be the Centaur Marauder?

Would it be fair to assume that the Centaur Maurader should be the Centaur Marauder?

Certainly

I am working on the patch but don't have as much time as I thought I would have had. The readme is taking quite a bit of time as I got side-tracked into developing the readme generator (mod-generic) into a hero/wizard editor too. I'll try to get the patch out by the end of this month - as a Memorial Day Late Special

I've been playing a bit more and noticed a few other oddities:

The demon imps don't seem to be targetable by ground ranged units. They always have 100% cover for some reason.
I was thinking I saw that on something else also, but the imps are the one have seen lately.

The are some odd abilites that you will occasionally see on a hero or item. Thing that would kill the hero if used like infect, self destruct, and martyr.


For a different 4th level elven unit perhaps something like a Lillend (From the D&D 3.5 MM) with fair attack and bard type abilities. Fly, grasp, charm animal, seduce, heal, bard, Attack/damage/defense/hp similar to the eagle rider but with better resistance. Some other posibilities might be a Elven Archwizard, Great Druid or a Silver Dragon.

Imps are flying, so they won´t be targetable to ground units. It is same on every flying unit, unless you got Double Gravity spell. Tho, there might be some flyers who are immune to DG too.

Infect, self destruct, and martyr will kill the hero, so will build outpost. Some items gives such abilities in dwiggs, so use them carefully.

Dwiggers afk whole summer? ^^

Flying units should be targetable by ranged units (i.e. archers) though.

you can hit imps with ranged attack even if info say are 100% covered...but sometimes it does happen that i can see the attacking animation but am not getting any infos that my shoots missed,nothing at all,so they are a bit buggy...

Any updates on the new version?

which version of dwiggs do i use? I installed 5.0 and his 1.4 update. In the custom resource theres dwigg 1.4 and dwigg 5.0. So exactly which should i be loading?

"dwiggs 1.4 patch" is a earlier version of dwiggs and afaik is not needed for 5.0 which should have all the image files needed.

Which is different then upatch 1.4 which is needed for most mods now adays and should be installed before dwiggs or anything else.

If you installed dwiggs 5 then dwiggs 1.4 upatch then you probably should reinstall dwiggs 5 again as you may have over written some of the graphics files with older versions. Then feel free to delete the dwiggs 1.4 resource file to make your setup list shorter.

Also don't confuse dwiggs 5.0 with dwiggs 5.0D or any other version that has a letter after it. For those naysayers out there who think it makes sense to name the final version the same as the beta except without the word beta or a letter.. I've seen a number of new comers get understandably confused by this. So, I told you so.

thanks. Sorry for another quick question, but what does saintly aura do? The text for it is so huge I can't see the whole thing. All i can see its +3 res water walk and -1 attack, but it goes on to say something about protect damage or something. Also is rejuvanate actually working correctly? A fenrir ran through my territory and turned everything to ice, but when i cast rejuvnate nothing turns to grassland even after several turns.

[This message has been edited by chewy2 (edited 06-24-2008 @ 09:04 PM).]

The text in full says "Bestows an aura of holiness on the target unit, allowing it to walk on water. The target is fortified against the temptations of the spirit (+3 res), and the desire for violence is lessened (-1 attack). Protects the unit from damnation and curses."

But I'm not sure about that last one. That text is missing from the actual ability. Its also issue where curse effect can't be masked like that. When its been tried before, the curse status doesn't show on the unit, but still effects the unit just the same anyways. Maybe stranger meant to do that but found the bug. But forgot to correct the text. I don't know.

Well most terrain changing spells take a long while to convert. Changing a few tiles at a time anywhere within your domain. Maybe it did change a few tiles, just not enough for you to notice?

Also such spells seems to need a few turns to pick up steam to their slow change. Try taking the game save and letting say 20 turns pass and see if you can notice any difference.(not saying it needs that long, but just to make sure)

But I don't have much experience with rejuvnate. If there is a issue with it, I doubt it exists only in dwiggs. I might have heard once something about rejuvnate not changing certain tile types. But I could be mistaken, its not at all a solid memory.

If your playing full life, level 3 nature elemental with its path of life is a easier way to get grassland tiles.(and you get a good unit too )

[This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 06-27-2008 @ 03:30 PM).]

Goblin shamaness despite having a female name and female graphics(you have to look close) seems to be a male type seducable unit.

Poison domain is too much on water sphere with static shield and a beefed up chain lightning.

I get alot of complaints about how slow dwiggs is and alot of resistance to playing it on this bases, I think some people exaggerate its slowness a bit. But I think we could make it faster. Like reducing range, making it so fey dont have stunning for their poison dart level 2 for only 70. Reducing or modifying early seduce and dominate units (since they are best with first strike they are best defensive, or off collecting units, not as much attacking)

Saytr should maybe have a quality stabotage and some boosted stats rather then dominate, for the same reasons mentioned before. To make them more offensive units.

Goblin bomber might be level 1, this way you have to earn its haste too. (this ones the one I feel least strong on, but its something to consider)

Has the Dwiggs Mod died?

Stranger has no time for aow any more, he has even uninstalled it off his PC.

Dwiggs is still used so not dead.

I plan to make a "unofficial" faster dwiggs patch. When I have worked out some things I plan to make a thread about this.

My understanding was that Timelord was looking after Dwiggs mod for the time being.

Quoted from RogerRabid:

My understanding was that Timelord was looking after Dwiggs mod for the time being.

Mine, too, and I can think of no better Dwigger to entrust with it.

Double Gravity Spell question:
What rating does the spell attack? One time you throw it vs. 3 Bone Dragons and a Ghost Dragon, and they all plummet to the ground. The next time you throw it vs. a solitary Black Dragon and nothing. I can't seem to find the pattern or probability.

I did promise a patch more than a month ago but I haven't had time to work on it at all. The documentation is around 70-80% complete, I'd say and the actual patch changes are about 25% done.
No promises this time on the timeline but there will be a patch for Dwiggs - maybe in a month or maybe a month and a half.

@Kaskoid, the Att of DG is 15 and targets resistance. Black Dragon having higher resistance explains the variation (though , as in all rolls in AOW, it is random)
Thanks for the kind words

This patch is mostly graphics fixes and such right? Nothing that will make the mod play any faster. If you think the mod is fast enough, talk to many of the remaining players that still play who often refuse to play it because of its speed.

I think they exaggerate, that it does in part depend on how you play it. But I have some good ideas for making it faster and hopefully more strategic/fun too in the process.

I might be willing to get into it here and leave much of it to TL if he indicates a willingness to make some larger changes.

BTW, black dragons (and presumably gold ones too) have magic immunity(at least guards do) which means double gravity and doom gaze immunity. Considering their stats. Maybe thats too much? It takes too much for some races to have even a chance of taking one down.

Why don't you post your ideas here and lets hear the other Dwiggs-players comments on them first, TP?
Personally, I don't have much time on my hands right now. So, my first priority is to get the patch out and fix the existing bugs in 5.0 and make some changes and get a decent readme out there for the new players. That will make Dwiggs 5.0 a finished product.

The changes to make it faster - it would involve a lot more discussion to finalize those changes. That can possibly be an add-on, rather than a patch.

...and DG targets all special resistances so gold and black dragons are not immune to it.

Oh, well then it was that AI was too stupid to use it. Even though I tried again and again and some of those tries it had more then enough rounds to use it. Maybe it didn't bother to use DG because the dragon had magic immunity (even if that would have worked)?

The basic principle is that we shorten all the ranges. It can be done. I got instructions from pawel, which I will implement and test out soon enough.

The idea is that one can not devastate a enemies rank before they can even move on the first turn of a town attack, without even leaving the walls. With attacking more of a option, the game can move faster. Plus since attackers can position their units before getting into fire range, their would be more stratagy and fun in attacking. (it is not fun having a bunch of weaker defence but otherwise good units killed before you can even do anything)

The range should start out with 7 for Xlong (which is 1 less then what medium is right now) which means you can't reach enemy attacking front ranks (except maybe corner attacks)from wall. 6 for long, 5 for medium (short would remain 4) 7 would be just enough range for cannons and hurl boulder machines to move up two spaces and attacks that need to be able to hit the walls on the first turn.

Range units would get a boost to compensate. Basic units like archers would be given stats comparable to their swordsman counterparts of the same level. Maybe a little less (testing required for exact values) More advanced units like storm mages would get more creative boosts. For example a storm mage would start out with dark gift, and get vision upgrade at silver and gold to complement their true sight (and to compensate for the devastation of some invisible units like leps)

Speaking of leps, I don't see them needing compensation for shorter range. But if someone disagrees by all means, It would be tested anyways.

An additional bonus to this would be ranged units that can better survive autocombat.

Machines could get even lower def & but lots of HP. (like 35 or so?, more or less depending on the machine) Sabotage boosted too.

Reduced radius, I'm thinking cosmic ray should have a radius of 1 but hit twice with good attack (cost adjusted accordingly) Fireball.. not sure what to do with, chain lighting, reduced damage? I also find it too powerful with poison domain & static shields. Those spells need to be moved onto separate spheres!(I mean at least so not all 3 are on the same one)

Why reduce radius spells? Same reason as shorter archer range. Plus with shorter archer range you will need to clump units together more to protect archers. Something I don't want to be too punishing.

Overhead spells I would give a larger radius so its easier to hit incoming enemies (less bother of fast clicking) but less attack/damage &/or more cost so that its not too punishing to come in and attack someone in their domain.

Domain of Darkness spell that forces someone to inch their forces foreward & memorize the map to be replaced by perhaps deathstorm. Not sure what other death spells were removed.

Haste domain made more expensive. Perhaps the cost of at least 12 haste spells worth(or half of 3 stacks) maybe even more, in both upkeep and initial cost. Research more expensive too?(which won't make the game faster, but its been brought to my attention that its too cheap & good in dwiggs)

Speed of some of the faster units reduced slightly. Like executionars that only travel 36 squares, but possibly morph to storm mages at silver. (dark gift at silver, lighting strike at gold) A number of other units slower too.

The idea is with archers reduced, we dont want people to be able to just go around their melee defenders/destroy them at their wall spots, before they even get in range of the archers.

I know people who say its "simple" just reduce the cost of buildings, make units faster, etc. But thats 1.3/MP thinking, this is dwiggs. I strongly believe this could help the mod move faster and preserve the more intricate feel of the mod.

I have more ideas too, but this is enough for now.

[This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 07-12-2008 @ 02:13 AM).]

So we want to make dwiggs faster... and you suggest making haste domain more expensive... also I like domain of darkness and cosmic spray as they are, personally.

Making haste domain more expensive to more closely align with the haste unit enchantment won't get anywhere close to reversing the general hasting of the entire game. Its just a balancing issue, one that becomes especially important with the shorter ranger of archers and with dwiggs in general where you need to know when to switch from building production to unit production.

Now that I look at it, possibly upkeep equal to one stack of haste (48) and casting cost equal to 1 & half stacks(240 without enchanter skill, or maybe what ever it would be with that skill) It would still be a great bargain compared to haste unit enchantment with just a couple stacks of units. One that can't be dispeled either.

As far as the other two, you haven't disputed that these would help with game speed/balance of game speed change issues. Just a "personal preference", well I can't very well argue with that.

[This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 07-12-2008 @ 05:48 AM).]

Quoted from TruePurple:

I might be willing to get into it here and leave much of it to TL if he indicates a willingness to make some larger changes.

So; is that some sort of threat?
TP, why don't you just make your own mod, even if it is based on Dwiggs and tweaked the way you want it, rename it and let us players decide whether or not you have any idea about what you are constantly going on about? (Call it PurpleDwiggs or DwiggsPurple or something easily recognizable.)
Veiled threats to hijack a mod certainly won't get you very far with this crowd. Just who was your Persuasive Speaking teacher? Putin?
As for all of these "others" who say the game is too slow; OK, its not Nintendo or PS3. I have a gut feeling that you think it runs too slow, have found a couple of others that have made similar comments, and now feel that you are the one anointed to fix a "problem" that exists only in your mind. If it were such a widely held belief, I would have expected to see a lot more chatter about it on this thread from others besides yourself.
Whatever you eventually do to Dwiggs, however you decide to tweak it, the finished product (some might say corrupted or bastardized product) will sink or swim based on the acceptance of the players who choose to download it. That is the only way that you will ever gain true respect on this board, that is the single most important criterium by which your opinions can be filtered and perceived. For one that is so quick to downplay the achievements or backgrounds of other players, you have still given the rest of us scant evidence that you have any foundation to be a critic.
We are waiting...

I have been playing games since 1963; war games and simulation games are direct ancestors of AoW-SM. I have played many hundreds of different games over those 45 years; sometimes for fun, sometimes as a professional in that industry for various reasons, sometimes as a critic for various magazines bitd, sometimes as a developer for different companies, and I can state with utmust sincerity that I have never found or played a perfect game younger than chess or mahjong; one pure memorizing skill and the other blind chance.
Even games that I developed for various companies now have areas that could be tweaked, although I don't know that tweaking would would make them quantitatively better; it would just make them different.
In any game with any element of chance, let alone a game like ours with an infinite number of possible permutations of the concept of chance, you will never see a game, or action within the game, that always performs as expected. History itself is replete with examples of random, chance, acts having profound effects on mankind. Learn to live with it.

[This message has been edited by kaskoid (edited 07-12-2008 @ 01:13 PM).]

I haven't kept up with this board and have forgotten who some of the posters are but if I remember correctly TP has sort of a reputation for being a little 'aggressive' with his tone at times. Having said that, I didn't take the comment that you have an issue with to be a threat.

I took it as a threat to the integrity of Dwiggs. TP has been kvetching about so many things that he thinks are wrong in Dwiggs that one wonders why he bothers at all.
Read the recent thread again; no way anyone should be able to just step in and take over for Stranger. Stranger passed it on to Timelord, where it should remain.