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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » General Discussion & Suggestions » Stranger's Dwigg Mod
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Topic Subject:Stranger's Dwigg Mod
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The_Stranger
Member
posted 03-30-05 02:59 AM EDT (US)         
Dwiggs5.0 is available here:

http://aow2.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=612

Having downloaded and installed Dwiggs 5.0 on an empty computer a year or so after its release, I realize that there are many errors and omissions requiring correction. But because the motive that inspired me to keep tinkering with Dwiggs in the first place was online play (which I don't have time for anymore), I have decided not to update it further.

However, I am currently in the infant stages of work on a Middle Earth mod, and hope that anyone who enjoyed aspects of Dwiggs mod, or simply anyone who loves Middle Earth, will spend some time sharing their ideas or creations at the following thread in the mod making area:

http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=33&tn=5417&st=recent&f=33,5417,0,100

In regards to Dwiggs mod, special thanks to:

El Joep-who did too much to list.

Timelord-again, too much to list.

Igoraki-converted many of the new graphics.

Merkraad-taught me the whole morphing thing

Kirky Picardo-maker of the excellent Brave New World mod. Like Timelord and Joep, he helped me too much to list just any one thing.

Kaskoid-Many of the excellent descriptions come from his desk.

Stillborn, Jean Luc, and many others also contributed some very creative descriptions. Look for the letter at the end of the description to see who wrote it.

If you wish to contact me, you can do so at bradjosse@gmail.com

[This message has been edited by The_Stranger (edited 10-26-2009 @ 02:38 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
RogerRabid
Member
(id: Roger the Rampant)
posted 12-01-05 01:42 PM EDT (US)     271 / 2989       
Northern Glow?

"Shooting down a plane of civilians isn't careless, it's politcal opportunism." - Stormraider
Stillborn
Member
posted 12-01-05 02:22 PM EDT (US)     272 / 2989       
Het stranger,

The update at the top of the page is a great Idea, keeps us on topic

I'm gonna start working on numbers 4,5,6,7,9,10,11,12,13,14 in no particular order and post what I have, I'm not feeling particualary inspired so I may just post ideas I have in hopes of someone else either going with it or just completley re-writing, and as always any ideas, inspirations or critisim is welcome.

again I'm not claiming these, anyone who wants to can work on them, this is just the ones I plan on looking at.

ohh yah I'm resending that email to you stranger are u still at bradjosse@hotmail.com?

BTW I love how the gnoll unit has taunt! given that gnolls are half man/half hyena like creatures, their taunting laugh can be worked well into their story, however there size is questionable, sometimes Gnolls are over 7 feet tall, other times some people seem to think them much smaller, whats your take? I'm of the 7foot tall hunched over camp.

[This message has been edited by Stillborn (edited 12-01-2005 @ 03:24 PM).]

The_Stranger
Member
posted 12-01-05 05:08 PM EDT (US)     273 / 2989       
The Gnoll issue is a tricky one. I think there is a lot of confounding them with Gnomes, who are small, and Trolls, who are big. I tend to the see the Gnoll as more man like, although hunched over and somewhat gnarled. Most of the "Gnoll" ilbs I have access to portray Gnolls as similar to men in stature with a variety of appearances. I could post a screen shot of various options...once I get to my real computer

Keep up the good work on the descriptions...I want to cross some more off the to do list.

You may want to send the email to the gmail address as well as the hotmail address, which tends to lose things (or I overlook them when they get filtered).

Regards,

bj

MitchK1989
Member
posted 12-01-05 08:23 PM EDT (US)     274 / 2989       
I sent two emails now to your hotmail, one with a screen and another with a script for UGPM... I don't know if you got it or not. Either way, I'll write for the stone minotaur now.

Stone Minotaur:

An intimidating creature in flesh, it's only natural that it would be no less frightening in stone. Replacing flesh and sinew is cold earth, making this creation extremely resilient. Brought to animation in a very similar way to the dwarven gargoyles, these automatons do thier work diligently; fighting for thier masters with the determination of a stubborn dwarf and the strength of a vicious orc.
These terrible creatures were created by Sagestone during one of the many dwarven-goblin wars after he saw the horrible devastation the minotaur goraz brought to the battlefield, splintering shields and shattering swords. Some wonder what would possess a noble dwarf to imitate the tactics of filthy goblins, but in war one must do what one must do.


Edited for length, I assume Sagestone and Goraz will still be in the next version of the mod, as they are unique heros.

[This message has been edited by MitchK1989 (edited 12-02-2005 @ 08:24 AM).]

Kalindor
Member
posted 12-01-05 09:38 PM EDT (US)     275 / 2989       
To clarify, here is a description of a Gnoll from the video game Baldur's Gate:

"Gnolls are a large, evil, hyena-like humanoids that roam about in loosely organized bands. While the body of a gnoll is shaped like that of a large human, the details are those of a hyena. They stand erect on two legs and have hands that can manipulate as well as those of any human. They have greenish gray skin, darker near the muzzle, with a short reddish gray to dull yellow mane."

If I'm not mistaken, Gnolls originated in the Dungeons and Dragons system, so this is likely to be close to the original conception of the monster.

*Edit: This still does not address the relative size of Gnolls, though they are usually portrayed in-game as being 7+ feet tall.

[This message has been edited by Kalindor (edited 12-01-2005 @ 09:40 PM).]

Webusver
Member
posted 12-02-05 02:32 AM EDT (US)     276 / 2989       
Hi The_Stranger !
I think about making a map which may be 100% compatible with many mods. This may be an empire building scenario where there may be just settlers and wizards preplaced to start the game. So the question:
Does the mod have units of settlers' type to be as settlers in your mode? So, if I preplace (using pure 1.4 editor) just wizards and settlers to begin the game (no towns at all) will these units be able to build cities while the game will be started with your mode?

PS I'd appreciate very much if somebody tells me what other popular mods don't change settler units to something else.

The_Stranger
Member
posted 12-02-05 02:46 AM EDT (US)     277 / 2989       
Hi Mitch,

I got your email about the upgm script, but I didn't get the screeshot. However, I've added you to my contact list, so your emails should get to me directly now. Could you lengthen the Minotaur's description a bit, maybe to include how they originated or came into being?

If you guys don't mind, we can add your initials to the unit descriptions. I think it would be fun to know who wrote what and, of course, you guys deserve the credit for doing the work! Everyone will be included in the readme file, at any rate. What pleases me about most about this version of the mod is the interest it is already generating, and the variety of feedback I am getting from various members of the community. I think it's going to be a lot of fun to play; it's already fun to make

Kalindor, thanks for the description. I admit, I was a bit fuzzy on Gnolls myself before reading it. I had heard the term before, but hadn't read any literature about it--only Gnomes and Dwarves, which is why I mentioned them earlier. I have some nice Gnoll graphics, and if anyone can think of an interesting and unique unit, I am sure something could be created and included in the mod.

Webserver, I've tried to keep settlers or pioneers in their original unit slots, so that nothing should be changed in that respect. The only difference between pioneers in Dwiggs and regular rules is the cost. If you create the scenario you described, it should work fine with Dwiggs. I also read your post in the mod making section, and I have left wolves (and all original units) in their original slot, so that they should also show up without trouble on the map. If you want, you can send me a rough version of your map and I can test it with the version of the mod that I am currently working on. I'd like Dwiggs to be playable with prexisting maps, although removing/replacing the Syrons and Shadow Demons would obviously affect some of them.

Keep the good ideas and thoughts coming,

BJ

[This message has been edited by The_Stranger (edited 01-19-2006 @ 03:25 AM).]

Webusver
Member
posted 12-02-05 04:06 AM EDT (US)     278 / 2989       
The_Stranger,
thanks, good information.
The map is not started, now i gather information on compatibility issues.
BTW did you try Climbers', Lighthawks' and Evilution mod? What are the other popular mods?
As far as I know, all of them have settlers where they are in the original. But I want to be sure, since I didn't watch for changes for about half a year.
It would be wonderful to know about the power of creatures, made in the slots of wolves in these mods.
Some mods are too heavy for me to download, so i would very much appreciate the information about powers and abilities of settlers-slot- and wolves-slot-creatures in all popular mods.
Thanks again!
MitchK1989
Member
posted 12-02-05 08:22 AM EDT (US)     279 / 2989       
I edited my stone minotaur description. I assume Sagestone and Goraz are still in the new version, being unique heros? Also, about the script I sent you... I was thinking the dark archon hero would be aligned with the undead, but thanks to custom resources, would not actually BE undead or gain any of the traditional undead abilities. He would be like a death knight type character with lots of strikes and immunities and such, possibly able to learn double strike, block, charge, whole bit. I just think it would be interesting to have an evil archon as one of the undead heros, and also to have one that wasn't actually dead. (Lost his soul, perhaps?)

Also, go ahead and put initials in the unit descriptions if you like, I don't mind either way, I'm just happy to help with Dwiggmod and can't wait until the next version. My only question is what're the halflings and dark elves going to be given as ultimate units now that the demons get the possession unit (you can only have one; I also suggest removing the ring in dwiggs with possession, if you use it you lose your hero permanently) and the fey get the leprechaun?

[This message has been edited by MitchK1989 (edited 12-02-2005 @ 08:28 AM).]

stemcginn
Member
posted 12-02-05 09:03 AM EDT (US)     280 / 2989       
Stranger , just regarding your info for a Gnoll unique unit, there actually was a Demon Lord of Gnolls called Yeenoghu.
Yeenoghu resembles a human in general form, but only at first glance. his head is that of a hyena, his chest is canine in form his hands are paw like, and his feet are pawed. Yeenoghu is thin to the point of being skeletal, (12ft tall), and his only body hair is a mangy crest of putrid yellow from his head down his spine. Yeenoghu's skin is a dead gray in colour. His eyes are lambent amber and large.

He typically carries his dreaded flail a weapon 6 ft in length, with three chains of adamite, each bearing a spiked steel ball. He also has the ability to telepathically project his speech to any single creature, but he cannot influence them other than by the persuasiveness of his speech.

Stephen

kaskoid
Member
posted 12-02-05 01:10 PM EDT (US)     281 / 2989       
Stranger:

You are answering or responding to things not mine; i.e., larva and gnoll.

I'm still waiting on Instructions for Dummies on recoloring.


Arch-Enemy of the Annoyingly Dense
Practitioner of Whimsy
Celt,Finn & Swede Elder Gamer

[This message has been edited by kaskoid (edited 12-02-2005 @ 01:10 PM).]

The_Stranger
Member
posted 12-02-05 01:42 PM EDT (US)     282 / 2989       
Sorry Kaskoid I put some recouring instructions in an earlier post . Maybe page 25 or so. Would you like to try your hand at some descriptions?

Roger, I don't really fancy the Northern Glow either...but I don't know that it's worth removing.

The Gnolls sound interesting; perhaps I could fit a few of them into the game, perhaps a hero. But for what race? Thanks for the info, Stem.

Mitch, the edited description is a good improvement; and yes, the two mentioned heroes are still in the game

Web, I should note that Dwiggs Settlers only build outposts. There is a builder unit for rebuilding stuff. I checked Brave New World, Climber, and Glorantha Mods: Glorantha and BNW have pioneers in the same spot with all the same functions. Climber's mod has Pioneers in the same spot but, like Dwiggs, they do not rebuild structures. I am pretty sure that Lighthawk's mod keeps settlers more or less the same, although it's been a while since I played it.

In regards to replacement units, I was thinking a Great Eagle for the Haflings. For the Dark Elves, we could use a Corrupt Ent, a Werewolf, or upgrade the Spider Queen or Executioner. My vote as of now would be to bump up the Executioner with lightning strike (I think Dark Elves and their Cult of Storms should inherit Lightning abilities from the Syrons) to level 4 status. Any thoughts?

bj

[This message has been edited by The_Stranger (edited 12-02-2005 @ 01:44 PM).]

MitchK1989
Member
posted 12-02-05 02:10 PM EDT (US)     283 / 2989       
I was thinking giving the dark elves an extremely large spider, and rework the devour ability for use with it as the harvester will no longer exist. I think using devour on a giant spider-beast to spawn black spiders would be pretty neat, and fit well with the dark elves. The great eagle is a good idea for the halflings, I think it could use a bit more HP or Def though. Also, I was under the impression that the werewolves and the werewolf hero would be more suited to demons than dark elves.

Anyway, here's another description

Imp:

More likely to be mischievous than threatening, imps are the least evil of all demons. The greatest grievances anyone has with imps are usually restricted to missing keys and socks or the occasional stubbed toe. Tricky little creatures, the dwarves in particular are convinced they are responsible for the failure of some of thier more ambitious mechanical designs.
Menace or munchkin, one thing is for sure, these little critters are usually not pleasant company, especially when there's items to be lost and things to be broken.
There are however, stories of great imps wreaking havok and destruction on the land, and some are even said to be winged beasts of flame, but most would prefer to label these stories as fable, if only for thier own security.

[This message has been edited by MitchK1989 (edited 12-02-2005 @ 02:15 PM).]

Kalindor
Member
posted 12-02-05 07:24 PM EDT (US)     284 / 2989       
I very much like Mitch's suggestions for this gargantuan spider unit. It sounds very Dark-Elfish and terrifying. If only you could give it a webstream ability of such that would have the effect of web but be in a breath-like area.
MitchK1989
Member
posted 12-02-05 07:31 PM EDT (US)     285 / 2989       
The web stream would be cool, but hey, if it spawns black spiders when it kills I think we'll have plenty of webs going around already! I was thinking we could give the gargantuan spider a paralyzing venom attack (You can edit a ranged ability to paralyze when it hits, one of the UPatch units does it for poison darts)... Maybe venomous spit and web with marksmanship 3? Those would be quite suited to taking out low level units, then make it somewhat of a good physical fighter so it doesn't get easily beaten by other level 4s which wouldn't get hit by either of those attacks very often.
drakflamer
Member
posted 12-02-05 08:46 PM EDT (US)     286 / 2989       
hello to all

i have played dwigs, the moods are great, but i think that could be better, obviously only my opinion

i think that the low level creatures "horde" concept and the slow game are the main problem, i guess that we went from extreme (in the AoW with high level) to extreme (in dwigs low level)

what if we can upgrade the low level unit stats with a wizard skill??, i mean like primary combat, expert combat and the last mastery combat, to upgrade the low 1-2 level creatures, and improve their stats grately, i mean a salamander in the eary game couldnt have some skills and combat points, but with "expert combat" it could reach the level of the actual salamander??but with a conventional growth AoW?? that couldnt be done with a wiz skill, but in other way, but the concept is explained

i think that some "weaker" races as halflings or goblins should be faster with more movement points, than stronger ones like archons or draconians or nomads -well i havent played still with these last guys -

again the mod is great and i love to play it, the above is only my opinion, i accept that im not a expert in dwigs -but i want to be -

[This message has been edited by drakflamer (edited 12-02-2005 @ 08:49 PM).]

MitchK1989
Member
posted 12-02-05 08:52 PM EDT (US)     287 / 2989       
Your wizard skills idea can not be implemented, and I'm not sure if I'd want it to be. I like for the troops to be balanced regardless of wizard, the conquerer skill is pushing it as is. I like dwiggmods balance between high and low levels, and how each race is totally unique. The advantage to the goblins isn't speed (they have neither swift mounts nor long strides) but cost. Have you seen the price tag on some of their units? Unbelievable, you can replace an entire army for nothing!

I'm sure you'll learn to love dwiggmod as most people who give it a fair chance have, and I'm sure the stranger wouldn't mind if you submitted any ideas for new units/heroes, or changes to existing ones!

drakflamer
Member
posted 12-02-05 11:20 PM EDT (US)     288 / 2989       
hmm, thinking it well, tou are right mitch

cheers

[This message has been edited by drakflamer (edited 12-02-2005 @ 11:20 PM).]

Stillborn
Member
posted 12-03-05 04:14 AM EDT (US)     289 / 2989       
hey stranger any luck with that email that I sent to your hotmail? If not I"m gonna try your gmail, is it the same adress except @gmail.

And sorry I havn't posted much discriptions recently, I tend to work all weekend, I"ll get some time this tuesday wednesday to do some writing, glad to see mitch is picking up the slack, reading other peoples work I find is the best way to get inspired about your own ideas.

anyways, keep it I have a good feeling about this mod.

cheers

kaskoid
Member
posted 12-03-05 12:23 PM EDT (US)     290 / 2989       
Stranger--
Sure will. Point to a list of the ones that need it, please.

Page 25 of which thread? If you mean the Patch plans, I looked at every one of your posts from pg 22 to pg 29.


Arch-Enemy of the Annoyingly Dense
Practitioner of Whimsy
Celt,Finn & Swede Elder Gamer

[This message has been edited by kaskoid (edited 12-03-2005 @ 12:31 PM).]

MitchK1989
Member
posted 12-03-05 12:24 PM EDT (US)     291 / 2989       
The first post has a list of units needing descriptions.
kaskoid
Member
posted 12-03-05 12:43 PM EDT (US)     292 / 2989       
Herewith, I give you a possible description for the Steam Barge.

The Steam Barge represents the epitome of dwarven ingenuity and workmanship. Never noted for their seamanship (underground rivers are seldom navigable), the dwarves do understand hydraulic principles gleaned from their tradition of mining and dealing with underground streams and rivers. Couple this knowledge with their tradition of manufactory and skilled fabrication, and the Steam Barge is the awe inspiring result. In capable hands, Steam Barges can easily win and hold naval superiority. The fact that they can carry large loads makes them even more utilitarian. Any race looking to the sea as a means of travel or conquest must fear this frightening weapon.


Arch-Enemy of the Annoyingly Dense
Practitioner of Whimsy
Celt,Finn & Swede Elder Gamer
Titanofthegods
Member
posted 12-03-05 05:39 PM EDT (US)     293 / 2989       
Get the lizards back and make an underwater empire!!!!
Alrik Fassbauer
Member
posted 12-03-05 05:52 PM EDT (US)     294 / 2989       
Excuse me, but what means "Dwigg" anyway ?
Jomungur
Member
posted 12-03-05 06:29 PM EDT (US)     295 / 2989       
Dwiggs was the online name of the founder of Dwiggsmod, a fellow from Hawaii. I believe "Dwiggs" is a play on his real name, which is "Dwight W..." something or another.

He used to play online MP quite a bit in the first few months of Shadow Magic, but was disappointed: 1) the level 3/4 rush that characterizes most standard rules games online, (2) the ubiquitousness of unit enchants and (3) what he perceived as similarity of playing style across races.

You can see this in the way he designed his mod: it favors buildable low level units, and in most online games, the armies consist of mostly lower level units. The races feel pretty different as well. Unit enchants are very expensive. As more people played Dwiggsmod, it had some balance problems. Stranger took up the mantle to update it, re-balanced it, added more units...and now new races.

Nice unit description, btw, Kaskoid.

[This message has been edited by Jomungur (edited 12-03-2005 @ 06:30 PM).]

The_Stranger
Member
posted 12-03-05 06:42 PM EDT (US)     296 / 2989       
That is a nice description Kaskoid I'll cross it off the list.

And the Imp too, Mitch. And which is the paralyzing dart unit in the new patch? I've been looking for it but can't find it...


An underwater empire might be interesting, but I fear most races would drown! Alas, anyhow, the editor won't let me do it....

I like the spider idea. The trick would be ensuring that it wasn't too similar to the spider queen. I was also thinking of giving the dark elves a low level spider unit, which makes sense if the big fella can spawn them. I happen to have the graphics for these units too, so it's very doable I'd like some more feedback on this idea.

I'll be home in two days. Please keep the ideas and decriptions coming. I too am very excited about the prospects for this mod (created a cool Elf Druid Hero today )

I'll be posting some new heroes that need descriptions above also....

Still, I'm checking the homtail email address now and...no, I didn't get it

Again the addresses are: bradjosse@hotmail.com and bradjosse@gmail.com Try the second one

Regards,


bj


p.s. Kaskoid, the information from the post I referred to is here; it's not a huge amount of information but such as it is....

http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=29&tn=4575&f=29,0,0,60&st=250

[This message has been edited by The_Stranger (edited 12-03-2005 @ 06:57 PM).]

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 12-03-05 08:44 PM EDT (US)     297 / 2989       
Great, good to see the game evolving!

Stranger, when do you think it will be released? I'd really like to have a nice online RMG game with the new units (and more!).
By the sound of it, this might become a 2/3 month project (with the danger of even longer!).



Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
The_Stranger
Member
posted 12-03-05 09:10 PM EDT (US)     298 / 2989       
Ha, Swolte, the truth is...there is not going to be a mod. I'm just trying to catch your 1.4 thread for most posts!

But, in the event that the mod does come out, I don't think it will be so long. I am mainly hoping to get some neat ilbs from Kirky Picardo, as well as creating some ilbs from the Civ IV site where you got some for the new patch. I've transferred all units, unit bodies, productions, racial traits, and items from 4.5 to the New Dwiggs, but I anticipate a month more of labour before it is finished. A lot of people are helping, so perhaps we could get that time down. But, as you have said yourself, I would rather take more time and make a better mod than rush anything I'm looking forward to a rmg game myself, though!

There will be more than new units, also: hopefully, new items, structures, heroes, races, and event images....sigh, just listing them all is making me tired

By the by, I've forgotten whether the "mask abilities" area of "abilites" is actually useful for anything. I ran a couple tests, and putting things there doesn't seem to make a difference....

On a more general note, I was wondering about archery recently. Since Dwigg units have less defense than regular rules, is archery too strong in Dwiggs. It has the same attack/damage (8/4) as regular rules. Would making it 7/4 be too great a change? I have gotten complaints from certain players about archers defending towns in Dwiggs; but these players weren't Dwiggs fans either . Personally, I never thought it was much of an issue. What think ye?


Regards,

bj

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 12-03-05 11:11 PM EDT (US)     299 / 2989       

Quote:

But, as you have said yourself, I would rather take more time and make a better mod than rush anything

*cough* I never said that. I wanted a quick and dirty release first, remember!

(Darn, he's really good. Wish I was smart enough to keep release dates that vague... )



Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

[This message has been edited by swolte (edited 12-03-2005 @ 11:15 PM).]

MitchK1989
Member
posted 12-04-05 10:38 AM EDT (US)     300 / 2989       
Hmm. I find attacking towns considerably harder in dwiggs than the standard rules, but standard archery isn't to blame. I actually find archery kinda weak myself, I think adding strike to the archers balanced it out in the field, and I like the way archery is currently set up. It makes it a little harder to attack towns, but that's no biggie. Maybe increase the damage of hurl boulder? That would make it easier for most races to take down walls.
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