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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » General Discussion & Suggestions » Stranger's Dwigg Mod
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Topic Subject:Stranger's Dwigg Mod
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The_Stranger
Member
posted 03-30-05 02:59 AM EDT (US)         
Dwiggs5.0 is available here:

http://aow2.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=612

Update 17-12-19 Joep and I are making an Age of Wonders 3 Dwiggs mod. If anyone is interested, just email me at bradjosse@gmail.com

Cheers!

In regards to Dwiggs mod, special thanks to:

El Joep-who did too much to list.

Timelord-again, too much to list.

Igoraki-converted many of the new graphics.

Merkraad-taught me the whole morphing thing

Kirky Picardo-maker of the excellent Brave New World mod. Like Timelord and Joep, he helped me too much to list just any one thing.

Kaskoid-Many of the excellent descriptions come from his desk.

Stillborn, Jean Luc, and many others also contributed some very creative descriptions. Look for the letter at the end of the description to see who wrote it.

If you wish to contact me, you can do so at bradjosse@gmail.com

[This message has been edited by The_Stranger (edited 12-16-2019 @ 08:19 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Kalindor
Member
posted 05-26-06 03:41 AM EDT (US)     1171 / 2994       
Stranger, if you don't mind me pointing out some imperfections as I play the mod, here are a couple:
-The Grave Robber's description has some spacing issues
-The Orcish shaman-class hero's avatar is one hex lower than it should be when standing on the field of battle.
The_Stranger
Member
posted 05-26-06 03:57 AM EDT (US)     1172 / 2994       
That's what this space is for, Kalindor Cheers
TruePurple
Member
posted 05-26-06 04:57 AM EDT (US)     1173 / 2994       
Stranger, you are eventually going to reply to what I said about about dwarven crossbowman and nightvision dwarven machines right?
The_Stranger
Member
posted 05-26-06 05:52 AM EDT (US)     1174 / 2994       
Yes, TP

Night Vision on the Dwarven Machines is a good idea, I think. Consider it done.

On the Cross bowman, I might add a bit more defense, but this is an issue I've thought about before, and I like the unit being a level 2 without any dramatic improvement. It's harder to kill with spells than other x bowmen, and is reasonably proficient in melee combat. It's always been a level 2 in Dwiggs, though there was a time when I considered changing it to a level one. I was convinced not to do so by BigBen (who only played Dwarves) on the strength of its stats, and am content with that decision. With its hit points, defense, and x bow attack, it's really not that inferior to a ballista, and 9 upkeep isn't such a bad deal in my opinion.

Cheers,

BJ

TruePurple
Member
posted 05-26-06 06:27 AM EDT (US)     1175 / 2994       
What about improvements for medals like I suggested considering they require twice as much exp to medal as a human crossbow unit, 50% more upkeep, give twice as much experience when killed to the enemy, and are less mighty meek friendly etc?

Mighty meek is something to consider too, since level 1 might meek units will have +1attk, +1dam on it. If you were to cast mighty meek on it, it would do minus -1 att & dam on anything level 2 and up.

You want to compare it to a ballista unit? Dwarven def and resist is only 1 point in each higher. Its health is 4 less. It has a retaliation, which means if attacked it can lose its crossbow attack that turn. Speaking of, its range attack without medal is 2 less, damage 6 less, and range one notch less. (only long instead of extra long, the difference between hitting units when they first appear and waiting for them to get closer, also the difference between reaching the enemy cannon etc)

What ever you compare it to, human crossbow unit, ballista, longbowman or wildblade. It comes up as a little less.(especially for something that needs a warhall too) Its only useful for rushing in a defense of a walled town when you can't afford to rush in anything better.(like ballista) And worth considering disbanding when you do get something better and gold income is less then great.

With something decent at medals, its a fair reward for having the units survive that long (they die easy, especially in autoresolve) and reason to keep around after rushing in for emergency defense.

You telling me that if crossbowman had UG concealment at silver they'd be too powerful? That EW at gold would make them terrors of the UG? I agree the unit doesn't need "dramatic" improvement. But it does need some from my experience, if its to be a level 2 unit that requires warhall. Please explain whats "dramatic" about my suggestions. As medal rewards, especially gold medal rewards it won't even come up that much.

Oh, and crash gates a bit too cheap. 14 is too little, I'd say 16 at least.(if not 20 or more)

[This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 05-26-2006 @ 07:12 AM).]

Air_warlord
Member
posted 05-26-06 06:55 AM EDT (US)     1176 / 2994       
Stranger city produce 24 gold from crops, 15 from merchant 10+15+25 from prod buildings, also cant remember how much from wiz tower and library and 20 from shipyard so getting additional +15 gold is minor improvement of gold income, if we not counting wiz tower related building and shipyard its 16% more, while total mana income is only +5+15+25 from temple buildings and so +20 mana would be +44,4% more. So its the reason why i think unlogical set maximum gold bonus to 15 and maximum power bonus to 30 like were for tigrans. i hope u understood the idea :P
TruePurple
Member
posted 05-26-06 07:28 AM EDT (US)     1177 / 2994       
Gyrocopter says in its description that it carries fire bombs, but thats not true. It only has pistol 3 shots. Which makes it a slower version of dwarven balloon with no transport. (yet only 10 gold cheaper) Well it has flying, marks 1 & sabatoge...(but with its defense and speed it very well may be shot down before it even reaches em)

Was gyroscope suppose to have firebombs?

[This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 05-26-2006 @ 07:51 AM).]

Air_warlord
Member
posted 05-30-06 04:50 PM EDT (US)     1178 / 2994       
Appeared that siege ram is melee unit 3 of this with enchanted weapon can kill reaper and seems any other lev4 too
Stillborn
Member
posted 05-30-06 08:25 PM EDT (US)     1179 / 2994       
Leadership 4 makes the ram deadly as well

Ohh yah before I forget, what do u think about adding a level of transport to the racial transports at silver? (transport V -> transport VI)

Obviously the only way to get this is to go shrine of war. It seems an obvious consideration, so if you've thought about it and dismissed it dont worry bout it

While where on the topic, what shrines do you guys use and with what race? I only take Order or War, but nature recently has become more attractive, anyone try it?

[This message has been edited by Stillborn (edited 05-30-2006 @ 08:29 PM).]

Air_warlord
Member
posted 05-31-06 00:22 AM EDT (US)     1180 / 2994       
For lev4 units shrine of order is the only choice, for some lower lev units with nice abilities at silver could be warshrine. Nature shrine isnt useful because monastery gives enough grow, magic shrines are good for cities which will be used for income only.
The_Stranger
Member
posted 05-31-06 01:04 AM EDT (US)     1181 / 2994       
I build almost exclusively Order and Nature Shrines: Nature Shrines for cities that I use as "farms" for income and producing pioneers, Order Shrines in cities that I want to make high level units in. I'm going to experiment more with War and Magic Shrines, though. For some, races, such as Humans and Dark Elves, the War Shrine is the best option because of strong silver bonuses.

And I'll follow up on your transport idea, Still

TruePurple
Member
posted 05-31-06 03:48 PM EDT (US)     1182 / 2994       
I've heard enough about units like battering rams becoming too useful with the right enchantments, leadership, medals etc.

What about instead of strike, they have sabotage (or sabotage 2 etc)?

EW, holy champion, leadership etc doesn't effect sabotage right?

Stillborn
Member
posted 05-31-06 07:59 PM EDT (US)     1183 / 2994       
I noticed in my single player games of Dwiggs (Beta) that the computer would make stupid numbers of purgers, which used to just walk around in stacks of 8 and get killed. Since the new version they have holybolts and can become a force to be reckoned with, just wanted to mention that it's an excellent change.

Glad to hear transports will get a boost at silver, I like the idea of extra functionality on the shrine of war.

So nature shrines on "farm" towns, that makes sense especially on those towns that are population capped.

For somereason I always just stick to one type of shrine, as if cheating on your gods is punished. Is there any disadvantage? (besides contradicting quests ie:Raze anything and a shrine of order)

Is there an advantage in the number of quests u can get by going different shrines? 4 cities with 4 diff shrines, will each give u a quest with a reward? or will completing each quest just make it so that u avoid punishement?


[This message has been edited by Stillborn (edited 05-31-2006 @ 08:00 PM).]

The_Stranger
Member
posted 06-01-06 00:03 AM EDT (US)     1184 / 2994       
Still,

The only drawback of building multiple shrines is that some are opposed to each other. You can build Shrine of Order with Shrine of Magic or Nature without conflict, but build a Shrine of War, and the Order god gets angry. So, War is opposed to Order, Magic is opposed to Nature. They will try and get you to do things that make their opposite god angry (War likes to raze towns, Nature likes to raze nodes, for example). Whether or not a god will give you units or avoid punishment depends on how they feel about you. If you have a ton of War Shrines and build one Order Shrine, the god of Order will be pissed. But if you have one War Shrine and build an Order Shrine, both gods might be willing to reward you, assuming you haven't done anything else to tick them off.

In summary, a god's feelings toward you dictate whether you get stuff from them, and these feelings are based on your cumulative actions, not just Shrine conflicts.

TruePurple
Member
posted 06-01-06 01:29 AM EDT (US)     1185 / 2994       

Quoted from stranger:

But if you have one War Shrine and build an Order Shrine, both gods might be willing to reward you

The presense of the shrines themselves, apart from any quests they give piss off opposing gods. AFAIR, you say build a order shrine and already own a war shrine, you will not get a quest from order. I think taking over shrines works a bit differently.

Quest stones will of course give you a quest of that god no matter your standing. But completing a quest of that god will still anger the oppossing god, no matter what that quest is. Like if you complete a order quest that has you explore a dungeon, the war god will not like you as much. But if the quest is to do something the opposing god hates as well, then that doubles in there as well.

Casting certain spells, being in certain stats of war/peace/allience, razing etc effects your relationship with this or that god..

If you never plan to do quests, then Id not worry too much about any of this. Though I do believe if a god gets pissed enough at you it will do negative things to you, but its rare, I think.

But quests are good. So never build order& war shrines or nature & magic shrines.

Oh also, evil towns take a hit to moral with order shrines(obviously the order shrine itself cancels out this effect) and good towns take a hit to moral with war shrines

P.S. Stranger, what did you think of the idea of sabotage instead of strike for battering rams?

[This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 06-01-2006 @ 01:35 AM).]

Air_warlord
Member
posted 06-01-06 01:41 AM EDT (US)     1186 / 2994       
tp even the strongest single strike can do 1 dam while 6 wallcrushing strikes with 15 dam will destroy stone wall in 1 turn i m sure so high lev sabotage isnt equal replacement
The_Stranger
Member
posted 06-01-06 03:24 AM EDT (US)     1187 / 2994       
I've toned down the ram a little bit, though it will still resist archers and batter walls adequately, I think.

Sabatoge wouldn't work for the reason Air lists as well as the fact that it would look silly to see a Ram sabatoging an Air Galley

I've spent some time this evening making racial ships for all the races as well as a new catapult unit for the Fey Folk.

Regards,

BJ

TruePurple
Member
posted 06-01-06 03:52 AM EDT (US)     1188 / 2994       
I don't think a ground unit can sabotage a air unit. I bet with the right boost sabotage could take down a wall in a hit, if thats truly needed is a unit that destroys a full stone wall in one hit.

Sabotage is also interesting in that it can attack at full even in red zone, which makes you feel like the unit was rushed at the wall.

Timelord
HG Cherub
posted 06-01-06 07:01 AM EDT (US)     1189 / 2994       
Stranger, plz add Lady of Pain to the Dark Elves' building tree again. This was an oversight in the initial release, I think.

The Enchanted Sword and Armor have different names in their descriptions which, IMO, lend flavor to them than just being enchanted weapons.

Order shrine lowering morale of evil races and War shrine doing the same for good races is not true, btw.


2009 1v1-Mapmaking Champion, Former PBEM Singles Champion, Proud contributor to the UPatch 1.4 and 1.5 effort
War of the Twins- 1 vs 1 PBEM map, Too Much Water - 1 vs 1 PBEM map, winner of 2009 1vs1 Mapmaking Challenge
My Dragon Age development blog
Munataros
Member
posted 06-01-06 09:17 AM EDT (US)     1190 / 2994       
Since battering rams are only way to kill darkelf archers, they need their high def and block.

My suggest is that dominate ability in sphinxes are 9 at start, 12 in silver and 14 in gold. Many troops have lower res and possess in att 9. Sphinxes are good fighters too.


AoW:SM and WoW gamer

Maker of MP Mod 1.8
Air_warlord
Member
posted 06-01-06 11:10 AM EDT (US)     1191 / 2994       
Stranger every time i play death spec important spell is missing, 1 time its bonedrag, another time its unholy darkness, in today's game it was dark gift. its incredible annoying so pls remove 6th and 7th spells that seems still are on 2 or 3 levels. pestilence is most good target for removing as its comic version of bonedrag
TruePurple
Member
posted 06-01-06 05:18 PM EDT (US)     1192 / 2994       
The only reason I hear air saying for not using sabotage on the ram instead of strike is supposedly not being able to knock down a full health stone wall in one very high (say level 4) sabotage attack, which I responded to. If any other reasons by all means lets hear it.

Concerning dwarven engineers.
They should come from siege workshop or master guild.
A. Because this makes so much more sense for them.

B. Dwarves already have a level 1 equivalent (even though it is a bargain recruitment cost wise) for war hall. The engineer in battle is at best a level 2 (I understand its battle prowess is less to compensate for its misc abilities and range attack which is rare for dwarves outside of machines, still a let down come champion guild). Which leaves only ruin master as a actually tough unit to recruit come champion guild.

Probably not a good idea to just have one unit for champion guild, either creative rearranging or another dwarven unit perhaps?

Dwarven engineers don't get rebuild structure till gold. But when they rebuild a structure, you lose the unit(!) No fools going to lose a gold medal engineer just for rebuilding. (well maybe in the right extremely rare circumstances) Since the rebuild unit costs the same as a dwarven engineer yet are faster.

Please either make it so you don't lose the engineer when rebuilding, or move rebuild structure to start out/nonmedal.(the first is preferred if possible) (P.S. you also lose em when making watch towers which requires a silver medal and the dwarven builder can also do)

Dwarven engineers should have sabotage. It makes sense for them. If they know how to create machinery, of course they would know how to sabotage it.

Watchtowers made by dwarven engineers should have night vision.

[This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 06-01-2006 @ 09:22 PM).]

Air_warlord
Member
posted 06-01-06 07:23 PM EDT (US)     1193 / 2994       
Btw why gold dragon cost 500 mana? for such price its the worst summoned lev4 flier
The_Stranger
Member
posted 06-01-06 09:12 PM EDT (US)     1194 / 2994       
Air, the Gold Dragon is expensive because it's not a researched spell. You don't need to spend 10-20 turns researching it or wait 40 turns for it to come up on your spell tree. You can get it for a quest, sometimes quite early in a game. If it was only 300 mana or so, like an Angel for example, and someone got it the first 30 turns, it could be very unbalancing. Also, it is far stronger than an Angel for combat purposes. Even at 500 mana, it's the cost of 7 Purgers or 6 Zephyr Birds...in many situations, I'd rather have the dragon.

TP, we've discussed the Dwarven Engineer, so I won't post here. The Transport is buildable from the Builder's Hall.

Time, the Lady is back, and the sword has been changed to fit its description.

I hope to see some of you this weekend for a game, and release the patch next week.

Cheers,

Bj

Air_warlord
Member
posted 06-02-06 01:50 AM EDT (US)     1195 / 2994       
500 is still insane price for creature with dragon ability and death weakness. ice dragon only little more weak and cost 350 and can appear early too as well as any other lev4 summons, it can be 2nd spell u research with some luck
Timelord
HG Cherub
posted 06-02-06 05:23 AM EDT (US)     1196 / 2994       
Stranger, another thing I forgot that we discussed some time back - True Seeing unit(s) for the Archons.

...and I agree with Muna, sphinx should be toned down a mite.


2009 1v1-Mapmaking Champion, Former PBEM Singles Champion, Proud contributor to the UPatch 1.4 and 1.5 effort
War of the Twins- 1 vs 1 PBEM map, Too Much Water - 1 vs 1 PBEM map, winner of 2009 1vs1 Mapmaking Challenge
My Dragon Age development blog

[This message has been edited by Timelord (edited 06-02-2006 @ 05:24 AM).]

TruePurple
Member
posted 06-02-06 05:51 AM EDT (US)     1197 / 2994       
I think sphinx should have a weakness, like that of ice or something, but stranger was very opposed to that. Said other tigrains don't have that weakness so why should Sphinx.

I responded the sphinx is a giant desert statue,(ice gets in the rock and splits it) unlike any other tigrain unit. And any number of units of same race have weaknesses or strengths that others don't. Take death knight with holy immunity when all other undead have holy weakness.

He didnt have anything to say to that.

Weakness is a a good way to go IMO, but otherwise less defense. I perceive that a better solution then necessarily reducing the attack of domination or direct physical attack if you guys feel spinx too much.

I don't think they get experience when dominating a unit, so the gold bonus probably won't come ..as much.

As far as special summons like red or golden dragon. Even with summon trait and your level 4 summon being researchable right after your first spell researched.. still takes many a turn to research.(at least at first, especially if you want to save up enough mana for casting it as well) But Its pretty easy to get and complete a quest within a few turns of playing, where you might just get a level 4 summons off the bat.

We could make these special summon spells as only explore item spells, with tough guards of course. Maybe dragon summoning could be something you can possible get from exploring dragon caves? Taken out of quest rewards, you could take down its casting cost. But as quest rewards, stranger makes good points.


P.S. Don't saints have true seeing? I could have sworn they do, if not those are good candidate for a true seeing archon.

[This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 06-02-2006 @ 06:05 AM).]

Timelord
HG Cherub
posted 06-02-06 06:30 AM EDT (US)     1198 / 2994       
Sphinxes do get experience by dominating other units. Compare their stats to other pure fighters like karaghs and Titans and they are still powerful. Dominate with Drain Will at start makes them much more so. Weakness doesn't make sense for sphinx, IMO - an increase in cost/lower hp would suffice.
On the topic of lvl4s, I don't recall the Frost Giant having cold strike - if not, he should definitely have it!

I also mentioned the incarnate before but haven't tried it out in this release yet to see if it was fixed (if Stranger thinks it needs fixing, of course )

Saint has true seeing but as Archons are a holy race, they should have more true seeing units - Avenger, Paladin, the likes...


2009 1v1-Mapmaking Champion, Former PBEM Singles Champion, Proud contributor to the UPatch 1.4 and 1.5 effort
War of the Twins- 1 vs 1 PBEM map, Too Much Water - 1 vs 1 PBEM map, winner of 2009 1vs1 Mapmaking Challenge
My Dragon Age development blog
Air_warlord
Member
posted 06-02-06 09:44 AM EDT (US)     1199 / 2994       
timelord when u are going to start playing again ?
TruePurple
Member
posted 06-02-06 02:51 PM EDT (US)     1200 / 2994       

Quoted from TL:

Saint has true seeing but as Archons are a holy race, they should have more true seeing units - Avenger, Paladin, the likes...


That isn't reason enough unto itself. They already all have holy strike and holy immunity which covers the holy race aspect. If you were to make true sight available to all sorts of archon units, you decrease the value of the saint unit. Why build it for the true sight when you can get true sight incidently by building the units you would normally build for other things.

Abilities like that where one benefits the whole group (true sight, vision, bard, leadership etc) should be kept to a select few units. (I know some races have a number of units with vision, but those races don't have a many a unit that have much vision)

[This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 06-02-2006 @ 03:00 PM).]

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