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AoW2 Technical Help
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Topic Subject: Lan gaming
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posted 03-30-03 09:20 AM EDT (US)   
For some reason this game just won't work over my lan. I don't have any problems with my other games. BGII, red alert, MW3, MW4 and so on.

This particular game just doesn't seem to recognize the other computer when you try to join a lan game. I've tried hosting from both machines. I've tried waiting a really long time to see if it would finally pick up. In desperation I've even tried different ports on my hub . I am going to try installing VPN on both machines and see if that works for god only knows what reason.

I don't know what else to do. It seems to work ok over the internet, but I can't connect via the internet to another machine on my lan and I really want to play with my GF.

I have all of the networking protocals installed, netbeui, tcp/ip and of course IPX/SPX. My machine has a 1.8 gig processor 256 megs of ram, 64 meg vid card, one of the SBlive sound cards, realtek network card.

More Lan stuff.
Client for Microsoft Networks as primary login
service is of course file and printer sharing.

So what gives?

Replies:
posted 03-31-03 10:01 PM EDT (US)     31 / 54  
OK, perhaps I misread your reference to both machines having a PPP adapter and returning an address of 0.0.0.0, If you cable provider has specified an IP addrees, that must remain on one machine. This, as you surmise, will be the Gateway machine for any iNet connection from within your LAN.

> Gateway has to be within a certain range of the IP address?

Essentially. The gateway address must be that of some other device addressible through the subnet defined by the IP address and mask. For =PC1 in your case, this will be an address also provided by the cable modem company, that of a device within their system. For PC2, you have specified that it will be a device with IP address 192.168.0.1. You must now provide this address within your network.

For Win2K, Win XP, this is fairly easy, as you can configure multipl IP addresses for an interface on the IP Settings > Advanced tab. For Win 9x, it's not nearly as nice; the easiest solution there is usually to simply add in another Network card I'm afraid. Either way, you will need to provide the 192.168.0.1 address for it. There is no need to provide a second gateway address, since this interface will not be used for routing elsewhere.

We're getting closer, I hope

posted 03-31-03 10:14 PM EDT (US)     32 / 54  
Wow... Ok, so I finally see atleast one reason to upgrade to winXP heh. What about installing a dummy protocal tcp/ip protocal . Baring that, what about using something from VPN?

There does seem to be another solution. It's not clean or beautiful. But it seems like all I would have to do is switch both machines to specify, put in my TCP/IP info, load up the game and have some fun. Then later on when I want both machines on the internet, I could go and change back to obtain, reboot, both machines on INET?

I'm going to try that one now, in theory atleast it should work. Thanks alot for your help in any case, if nothing else I've learned alot about networking tonight.

posted 03-31-03 10:44 PM EDT (US)     33 / 54  
I tried specifying the address for both machines. PC1 at address 192.168.0.92, and PC2 at address 192.168.0.91. Gateway for both machines is 192.168.0.1. Subnet is 255.255.255.0. When I booted both machines up with this configuration I still couldn't ping.

I could see the other machine in network neighborhood, and obviously neither machine could access the internet. Now I'm pretty confused. I have some VPN and NDISwan protocals installed and I'm going to remove them reboot and give this another try.

Still not sure what I missed..

posted 03-31-03 10:49 PM EDT (US)     34 / 54  
Oh yeah, I also tried this configuration with both machines having an IP address of 192.168.0.92. This caused both machines to report an error saying that a duplicate IP address was detected and that the interface would be shut down.
posted 03-31-03 10:57 PM EDT (US)     35 / 54  
One more thing. Both machines when you access winipcfg. They say PPP. You have to dropdown to the nic driver to get the IP, subnet and such. Otherwise it just says 0.0.0.0
posted 03-31-03 11:28 PM EDT (US)     36 / 54  
> Wow... Ok, so I finally see atleast one reason to upgrade to winXP heh.

Gack! I wouldn't go that far 8) Especially since a second NIC is both cheaper and easier to setup.

> What about installing a dummy protocal tcp/ip protocal

There's no such thing. A protocol can be bound to multiple adapters, each with it's own parameters, but there's only one copy of it. And, unfortunately, not even multiple Hardware Profiles will help, since the parameters of a given card are considered global. Take a look here for a discussion a a similar question.

There are third party software solutions, but I'm not sure if they're applicable. The firewall software I use for example includes both NAT (Network Address Translation) and Proxy servers which provide DHCP functionality for connection sharing, but a quick check of the Tiny Personal Firewall you mentioned elsewhere does not seem to include this. You might want to take a look at the docs however, and/or those that came with your cable modem to see if they offer any suggestions on using their router together with a home network. MS own ICS software isn't going to help you though, as it requires two connections - one to the internet and a second to your LAN - in order to work.

> I tried specifying the address for both machines. PC1 at address 192.168.0.92, and PC2 at address 192.168.0.91. Gateway for both machines is 192.168.0.1. Subnet is 255.255.255.0. When I booted both machines up with this configuration I still couldn't ping.

That's curious. The gateway address is wrong but should have no bearing - your systems will just act as if the (non-existant) gateway is currently offline. I think. Never tried setting up a network like that to see what happens

> One more thing. Both machines when you access winipcfg. They say PPP. You have to dropdown to the nic driver to get the IP, subnet and such. Otherwise it just says 0.0.0.0

So does mine on my Win98 workstation. Ignore it. It's probably wired in to use the DUN connection you don't have. I never use winipcfg anyway so as with most MS GUI stuff I have no idea what the heck it thinks it's doing.

One thing I'm curious about though. You said you were able to access the iNet from both machines before, just that they couldn't access each other directly. Did you Cable company give you two different addresses to use? If so, and they were on the same subnet, then the two ought ought to have seen each other. Why they didn't then, and still don't on a local net, I'm at a loss to explain. Like you, there's something I'm overlooking I'm sure, I just don't know what to ask you to figure it out. Of course I'm also not sure what your VPN software was or what it was set up to do, and it may very well be include some sort of port blocking itself.

posted 03-31-03 11:45 PM EDT (US)     37 / 54  
Both of the PC's can access the inet through the hub. I just set them to obtain IP and off we go. I removed all the VPN stuff. I want to keep this as simple as possible. I'm begining to wonder what would happen if I just full on remove netbeui.

In the previous configuration I mentioned the gateway was 192.168.0.1 for PC's with address 192.168.0.91 and .92. I'm confused about why that's wrong? Is the gateway a necessity?

posted 03-31-03 11:53 PM EDT (US)     38 / 54  
They didn't tell me they gave me two IP's but it looks like they did. I'm only paying for one but both PC's have a different address.

Removing netbeui causes both machines to not see each other in network neighborhood. However, when I hit find, and enter the workstation name it's there. I can also access the files from the shared folder. Pinging is still a no go.

posted 04-01-03 01:24 AM EDT (US)     39 / 54  
OK, now we're all equally confused. You said

Quote:

For PC 1 the IP Address is the one specified by the cable modem provider.

By "specified" did you mean this address was given to you as a fixed number when you installed the hardware and entered in manually, or an address supplied dynamically when you asked to assign an address automatically. I'm guessing from your latest reply you mean the latter. There are several ways taht can be done, but in general no guarenteeing you'll get the same address each time. What is importatant though is that any addresseses obtained by the two machines that are connected be within the same subnet - that is, when express as 4 8-bit binary octets, they may differ only in bit position where there is a "0" in the subnet mask.Any position in which there is a "1" in the mask mutch. Is this what you are getting?

> In the previous configuration I mentioned the gateway was 192.168.0.1 for PC's with address 192.168.0.91 and .92. I'm confused about why that's wrong?

The purpose of a gateway is to provide a bridge from one LAN or subnet to another. This can be a logical bridge within a single physical system but is more often between physically separate segments. Whenever a machine needs to access an address that is not within it's current subnet, it's sends the request to the gateway device which is expected to forward it elsewhere. That gateway must itself have an address which is reachable within the subnet of the requesting machine. Thus given the system you describing, either machine needing to access an IP address outside of the range of 192.168.0.1 through 192.168.0.254, say IP address 140.235.119.85, must ask the device at IP address 192.168.0.1 to forward the request, presumably through some other interface. That device address however does not exist in you network, as you have only 192.168.0.91 and 192.168.0.92 defined so the request will fail.

> Is the gateway a necessity?

Normally to access the internet, yes. However in the configuraation you're testing, which disables access through the cable modem in any case, it serves no real purpose.

Confused enough? It gets worse. The reserved blocks of addresses can never be sent through the internet, instead they are used to define local networks and the same address may occur on numerous systems. I could for example just as easily have a 192.168.0.91 on my own network and there would be no interference with your owm. That's exactly what they're they're reserved for, so that the limited number of real, unique addresses in the world is not exausted as easily by large private networks. When you connect to a DHCP server such as, apparently, your cable modem it may supply a temporary address within that reserved range, or it may supply a real, external address from within a limited pool of staticly assigned values.

If it supplies a real address you have no problem, but normally as with any limited resource, you will need to pay for that since thos addresses cannot be parceled out to anyone else. If on the other hand it assigns a reserved address, every time you access an external address and receive data back, a translation must occur to route it to the correct machine, since that reserved address does not get appear in the data stream. This is the function of a router, which can be software or hardware. A device that supports only a single connection is simpler to build since it only has to translate to a single address. It's a trivial cost difference in real terms these days, but as always you generally only get what you pay for. Howver if you say it's working I can't argue with that.

What I would be concerned with though is if the two dynamic addresses you get during any given session are indeed within the same subnet. If they are not, but each is within the same subnet as the gateway address also provided automatically by the modem to that interface, then that would explain why they could both access the iNet but not each other. That however does *not* explain why, when we set up a test configuration not involving DHCP you still can't make it work.

That's the part that has me baffled. It doesn't seem to be a problem with AoW2 per se though, but some sort of wierd TCP/IP gotcha I've not seen before. It's late though and my head hurts as much as yours must. Let me ponder on it. Maybe Nojd will come along and see something obvious I've missed. Meanwhile you might try HG's General Technical Help forum.

posted 04-01-03 02:03 AM EDT (US)     40 / 54  
My head is definately hurting. I'm going to have to come back to this tomorrow. One last thing though. I discovered a neat little utility in win98. Net Diag. I ran it on both machines and it detects an IPX/SPX and netbios protocal on both machines. I can run as a diag server one both machines, but neither machine is detected. I guess it's really just a fancy way of saying it doesn't ping but I'm wondering if my problem is netbios and not tcp/ip per se.
posted 04-01-03 02:05 AM EDT (US)     41 / 54  
Oh yeah, this is definately a problem with my network and not AoW2. I've learned enough about networking tonight to suss that. I would still like to hear any ideas you come up with.

Shame though, if this game lan'd with IPX/SPX my life would be so much easier heh.

posted 04-01-03 11:29 AM EDT (US)     42 / 54  
The IP's are supplied by the cable modem company. I haven't paid for an extra IP address I just seem to get it when obtain IP is checked. The ips for both machines are in the same range, 12.247.XXX.XXX. Im still having a bit of trouble understanding the concept of subnet. I realise it means subnetwork, in this case the two pc's and not the internet correct? I can however tell you that the subnet is the same for both machines, it's 255.255.255.XXX.

In the simpler configuration where I set machine 1 as 192.168.0.91 and machine 2 as 192.168.0.92 the subnet for both machines was 255.255.255.0 and there was no pinging.

Im really not sure what's going on here. For some reason I'm TCP/IP isn't getting through. I'm starting to eye my windows setup disk alot and asking myself how far behind I've fallen with my software backup... I just wish I knew which computer is causing this problem.

posted 04-01-03 01:14 PM EDT (US)     43 / 54  

Quote:

I ran it on both machines and it detects an IPX/SPX and netbios protocal on both machines.


It doesn't detect TCP/IP? If I were you, I'd uninstall all protocols and then reinstall TCP/IP only (on both machines). But I'm afraid I can't guide you through the process, since it was a very long time ago I even touched a Win98 system.... (thank god! )
posted 04-01-03 05:36 PM EDT (US)     44 / 54  
Actually, I've already done that. It still won't talk. I'm done now to just trying to figure out which machine is the one that's hosed. I don't feel like doing an OS re-install on both of them.
posted 04-02-03 10:33 AM EDT (US)     45 / 54  

Quoted from PrivacyLost:

I tried the cable you mentioned. No hub, just my pc going into another pc. Still no lan game detected when either machine hosts....

I suspect you have not used twisted pair cables but simply the same cables you used to connect to the hub/router. Just a guess.

Quoted from Magog:

(A cross connect cable is a TP cable that allows you to connect two computers with their network cards without using routers, hubs etc.)

If that's the case, you need to buy twisted-pair/crossconnect cables and try again.

However, if you have a hub already, why not connect one of the PCs (host) to the uplink port 4 and the other to one of the remaining ones, say port 1? (Sorry if you have tried this already and mentioned in your post; I just skimmed through them.)

Outlier out ...

posted 04-02-03 01:03 PM EDT (US)     46 / 54  
I sense some confusion here. "Twisted pair" or "TP" cable is a normal network cable. The 8 smaller cables inside it are twisted in pairs to decrease interference from eachother and other electric devices.

What you need is a crossover cable. Looks exactly like the normal network cable, only the 8 smaller cables inside it are in a different order (You can see this by looking at both ends of the cable. If the 8 small ones are in the same order on both end = normal cable. If they're not = crossover cable).

posted 04-04-03 09:41 PM EDT (US)     47 / 54  

Quoted from Magog:

I sense some confusion here. "Twisted pair" or "TP" cable is a normal network cable. The 8 smaller cables inside it are twisted in pairs to decrease interference from eachother and other electric devices.

Thanks for the clarification! I am aware of the difference between TP and CO cables but I guess I was confused with the terminology ...

Anyhow, I hope PrivacyLost can set up aow2 lan gaming by now. Probably got help from some angels in another thread ...

Outlier out ...

posted 04-08-03 06:46 PM EDT (US)     48 / 54  
Actually, it's still not working. I'm back to playing the official campaign with Merlin.
posted 04-09-03 02:42 AM EDT (US)     49 / 54  
Wish I had any ideas left, but I don't...
posted 04-09-03 04:50 AM EDT (US)     50 / 54  

Quoted from Outlier:

However, if you have a hub already, why not connect one of the PCs (host) to the uplink port 4 and the other to one of the remaining ones, say port 1? (Sorry if you have tried this already and mentioned in your post; I just skimmed through them.)

Just curious, have you tried what I mentioned above previously? You'd need to setup similar IP addresses and setup the client machine's gateway to be the host machine's IP address.

If the above still doesn't work, one possibility may be to buy another lan card and try to use the configuration that Magog suggested (his setup). I believe you won't need a hub then though.

BTW, I guess you have the latest and updated version of an antivirus software and your computers are free from infections.

Outlier out ...

posted 06-03-03 05:57 PM EDT (US)     51 / 54  
have you tried pinging from both machines? oh and make sure you have set the ip up on both comps eg one comp can be 192.168.0.11 the other can be 192.168.0.12 and set the gateway to yout isp's dns ip.
posted 10-19-03 05:34 PM EDT (US)     52 / 54  
OK, I need help. I can't get to host or find any games online. People give me i.p numbers, I give them mine, nothing happens. I can't find them or them me, why? I don't have a clue if the lan thing will work, as I don't know any aow'ers on my lan (university lan) but the internet thing is a definite no go.

Help?


BLOODYBATTLEBRAIN, last of the Azrac warriors.
posted 03-15-15 08:05 PM EDT (US)     53 / 54  
Maybe a stupid Question...


Can i play age of wonders shadow magic with a friend in multiplayer / scenario (Hamachi) and save our progress, so that I can continue to play with him the next day?

We tried to load, but then the computer replace the human Player...
posted 03-18-15 08:41 AM EDT (US)     54 / 54  
@Psytrance

For reloading, you need to host a multiplayer game as usual. Then instead of selecting a scenario, select a savefile. And you should be good to go.

Maker of the CoMA and Strange Lands mods.
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