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Topic Subject: Devs: Protections vs Effects ?
posted 07-05-02 07:23 AM EDT (US)   
In AoW1, I believe that for example HolyProtection didn't make it any harder for Vertigo to occur. I think it should.

Considering for example PoisonDarts which does physical and poison damage. What benefit would PoisonProtection give ? I believe as far as AoW1 is concerned it gave no benefit except if perhaps your Resistance was lower than your Defense you would only receive half damage on rare occasions.

Especially considering Immunities are rarer now, and they were the only way to be protected from effects.

If I have a lightning spell, and a unit has lightning protection, I currently don't care, as mostly it's the stun effect that kicks toosh.

But if AoW2 is different from AoW1, or if I have AoW1 wrong, then I withdraw my suggestion

It may be just that 50% isn't that noticable. Either way I would like to know how this works exactly.

- Warlock.

Replies:
posted 07-05-02 08:01 AM EDT (US)     1 / 12  
Protection does just affect damage, so RES is what is most important in avoiding negative side-effects...

Josh Farley
Programmer
Triumph Studios
posted 07-05-02 08:39 AM EDT (US)     2 / 12  
Cheers for the explanation Josh.

Cool, my facts are right

So my suggested implementation still stands:
A race with PoisonProtection should be 50% less likely to be Poisoned.
Or
A race with FireProtection should be 50% less likely to be Burning.
etc...

Anyone disagree? Anyone agree?

I'm curious as to why this isn't already the case? Why was it opted not to implement this? It seems fairly logical to me.

- Warlock.

posted 07-05-02 08:45 AM EDT (US)     3 / 12  
I agree!

Protection implies to me that they should have a good chance of not being affected at all, not just take less damage. Although that should be the case, too, I think.

posted 07-05-02 08:49 AM EDT (US)     4 / 12  
Oh it should definately reduce the damage.

But in the case of PoisonDarts that does both Physical and Poison damage types, PoisonProtection will very rarely have any benefit.

- Warlock.

posted 07-05-02 11:35 AM EDT (US)     5 / 12  
I agree. That's one game dynamic I never could understand; having an X protection should halve your chance to be affected by X as well as halve the damage from X.

Also, I think having magic protection should halve the damage from those troops which have magic strike (even if they have strike as well). That would add a little more strategy into choosing when to use enchant weapon, as opposed to just casting it whenever you can. Right now, I think magic bolts is the only "pure" magic attack; there might be more but I can't think of any. I believe to halve the damage from a troop with strike and magic strike you need physical and magic protection.

[This message has been edited by Jomungur (edited 07-05-2002 @ 11:37 AM).]

posted 07-05-02 01:11 PM EDT (US)     6 / 12  
That's an interesting proposal Jomungur.

Although there are a few units, especially summon units, that start with MagicStrike and will be affected by the proposal.

But considering there aint that many units that actually have MagicProtection, it should be okay.

So 1. If your Stike has MagicDamage then you lose PhysicalDamage, in which case if you come up against MagicImmunity, you're in a lot of trouble, but this aint likely to happen.

Seems interesting, cause as it presently stands, MagicProtection is rarely beneficial.

Or 2. You could make it so if your Strike has MagicDamage then your PhysicalDamage is halved. This is safer. This allows you to still test your physical strike vs defense.

#2 is better I think. This sounds good. I like it.

Although let's not lose track of the original thread's even more important issue.

Warlock Concept agree: 3
Warlock Concept disagree: 0
Jomungur Concept agree: 2
Jomungur Concept disagree: 0

- Warlock.

[This message has been edited by Warlock (edited 07-05-2002 @ 01:14 PM).]

posted 07-05-02 01:24 PM EDT (US)     7 / 12  
Q195. Would I be correct in saying, that if you had MagicStrike and came up against a Warlord you only have to defeat its resistance of 8 instead of its defense of 13 ?

Q196. Does the game correctly calculate: If I have Strike with MagicDamage and PhysicalDamage and my enemy has 10 Defense and 18 Resistance and PhysicalProtection, and I defeat the 10 Defense but not the 18 Resistance, does the game correctly only still apply Half Damage maximum ?

- Warlock.

posted 07-05-02 01:53 PM EDT (US)     8 / 12  
I think that idea of halving damages on protection has some problems. Why should my unit start doing less damage after i enchant it's weapons or fire halo it? Even though a weakness will 1.5 all your damage so it might be fair.

Some questions.

1. Do protection and weakness nullify eachother or does a unit take 75% damage?
2. I had a unit with twice the same weaknesses do they add onto eachother?
3. What does firestrike do, except give a chance to burn a unit?

posted 07-05-02 06:50 PM EDT (US)     9 / 12  
Warlock, in AoW 1 defense was used to calculate the chance to hit no matter what kind of damage a unit (or ability or even a spell) was doing, resistance was only used to calculate if any secondary effect (like burning, cursed, entangled, ect.) was applied. I think It works the same way in AoW 2, so your warlord’s defense of 13 will be used no matter what kind of damage it is attacked with.
Of course I could be wrong, they could have changed how this work in AoW 2....

Kris

posted 07-05-02 10:08 PM EDT (US)     10 / 12  
Kris, I believe they changed this from AoW1. If an attack comes purely from a non-physical source, (like holy bolts or magic bolts), it doesn't check defense for the "to hit" roll, just damage. If the attack has both special and physical damage (like venom spit), it checks defense for the hit. (At least that's what the strategy guide says.)

"Q195. Would I be correct in saying, that if you had MagicStrike and came up against a Warlord you only have to defeat its resistance of 8 instead of its defense of 13 ?"

Good question. I assume you're asking if something only had magic strike, and not both magic strike and strike. My hunch is that anything with the word "strike" checks defense for the "to hit" roll, but I have no basis for that conclusion.

posted 07-06-02 06:25 AM EDT (US)     11 / 12  
Warlock, it seems like we see alike on this issue. I was actually going to post something similar, but you beat me to it. Anyway, it came up when I was playing the dwarves. All dwarves have poison prot. However, most of the time it does absolutely nothing, cause they were still getting poisoned by poison darts and spit.

I would propose that a unit with X Prot. get +Y Res against the secondary effect of X. Y would be, hmm, maybe +4? I know +4 sounds like a lot, but it still only lessens the chance by 20%. Well, not 20%, but 20 percentile units, or something, don't know what they're called in english.

Here's another question. If I hit a unit with lightning immunity with Lightning and Physical damage (say a hero with an artifact), can the target be stunned? Josh said just damage, so I guess it could be stunned?


K.


Mental health is an extremely serious issue, which, if not detected and treated early on, will drive you mad.
posted 07-07-02 05:19 AM EDT (US)     12 / 12  
Kaljamaha:
Instead of adjusting resistance, you could do the usual test against resistance, and then from those that pass that test, only allow 50% of them to be successful.
And
If you have lightning immunity, you can't be stunned.


Molog:
1. Yeah depending on the calculations this could be 75% or 100%. I think the devs answered this but I forget. I was assuming 100%.
2. I don't think that is suppopsed to happen.
3. Yep just Burning and extra damage to those with FireWeakness. I would like to see Burning doing 3 damage per round.

Kris:
Magical attacks are checked against Resistance (eg. HolyBolts), but in Tactical-Combat the bottom left combat log still shows to-hit values based on Defense. The Devs said this would be fixed in a patch.

- Warlock.

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