Let's ask for the source code! - Age of Wonders Heaven Forum

Topic Subject: Let's ask for the source code!

SmurfHero
Member

posted 06-03-04 06:47 AM EDT (US)

While I was browsing the Civilization Fanatics site in search for new unit graphics (and they do have a lot of great usable units!), I noticed that there is a petition going on to ask game publishers Atari to release the source code for Civilization II. I think we should do the same for Age of Wonders! After all, the game is over 5 years old now, and has been succeeded by 2 newer titles in the same series. I doubt that AoW 1 has any real commercial value left to the publishers. The technology inside is probably very much aged by now, so from a competitior's point of view there's not much left there either. So maybe, just maybe, we could persuade them.

But why should we?

Well, if nothing else, we could use the source code to finally get all the pieces together of the used file formats for graphics, campaigns, unit stats, rule sets, etc. We could fix some bugs that are still there, either in the game itself or in the editor. We could build in support for multiple rule sets and/or campaigns. Maybe add a new feature or two ...

How's that sound? If you like this, please send me an email containing your name and valid email address (which I will keep in a safe place of course). If we get enough names (let's say 100 for starters) I will do my best to get this petition to the right place. Speaking of which: would that be Triumph Studios or Take Two?

Anyway, let's get this list growing!

UPDATE 2006-04-01:

Take 2 Interactive is not responding to my messages, either by email or 'classic' mail. Therefore, I am afraid that we will have to let go of this idea.

I thank you all for your interest and support.

SmurfHero - Leader of the Smurf race

[This message has been edited by SmurfHero (edited 04-01-2006 @ 10:20 AM).]

Author

Replies:

Magog
Member

posted 10-19-04 01:45 PM EDT (US) 61 / 125

Quote:

I'm hurt by this unwarranted attack on OD..

Ok I'm sorry. lets just say the OD is a very special place.

[This message has been edited by Magog (edited 10-19-2004 @ 01:46 PM).]

Nechaef
Member
(id: Arsiel)

posted 10-19-04 02:58 PM EDT (US) 62 / 125

Quote:

a very special place

For very special people.

http://www.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=1,322505,0,60

You have a very appealing dark side to your nature.- Celt in Exile

Magog
Member

posted 10-19-04 04:49 PM EDT (US) 63 / 125

Indeed.

SmurfHero
Member

posted 10-28-04 02:44 AM EDT (US) 64 / 125

Slower and slower ...

SmurfHero - Leader of the Smurf race

Silver_Dragon
Member

posted 11-02-04 02:41 PM EDT (US) 65 / 125

Even if we were 100 players in this petition, i'm very sure that we would not get the source code...

I have gone to find myself.
If i get back before i return, keep me here.

SmurfHero
Member

posted 11-06-04 09:22 AM EDT (US) 66 / 125

Quoted from Silver_Dragon:

Even if we were 100 players in this petition, i'm very sure that we would not get the source code...

That's why I have a Plan B. But I stick with Plan A until it proves to be invalid.

SmurfHero - Leader of the Smurf race

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 11-06-04 11:07 AM EDT (US) 67 / 125

I've recently informed about the matter and it's not gonna happen. Publisher doesn't want!

It's not in the hands of the devs, nor this humble messenger!
Better go with plan B!

Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

A Qatigattuusara
Member
(id: Dvorak)

posted 11-07-04 11:10 AM EDT (US) 68 / 125

What's plan B?

ZombieEater
Member

posted 11-08-04 04:44 PM EDT (US) 69 / 125

(sigh)
Yeah, I figured it was a long shot, but hope blooms eternally.

Plan B? I'm intrigued.

Does it involve black ski-masks and a trip to the TS offices at night?

swolte --
thanks for checking into it for us.

Any news on AoW3? Or has the news over from Stardock about MoM2 put those plans on hiatus for a while? I hope not. AoW2SM and HoMM IV seemed to have come out around the same time, didn't they, and that didn't hurt SM.

It is roaming the depths in eternal hunger, devouring all and everything, far from the light, lost in the shadows, alone, wandering, searching, evermore...

SmurfHero
Member

posted 11-09-04 02:07 PM EDT (US) 70 / 125

Quoted from Swolte:

I've recently informed about the matter and it's not gonna happen. Publisher doesn't want!

Oh man ... We *really* need a very good story in our petition. I'm not going to back off now! I won't stop bugging them until they come to my place and put the petition up my .. erm ... Well maybe I'll stop just before that. But nothing sooner!

Quoted from Dvorak:

What's plan B?

It's a Secret Project sponsored by the government. Well actually it's not sponsored by the government. But it's a secret anyway.

Quoted from ZombieEater:

Does it involve black ski-masks and a trip to the TS offices at night?

No, that would be Plan C. Would you believe that it's only a 20 minutes' drive from my house to the TS Studios?

SmurfHero - Leader of the Smurf race

ZombieEater
Member

posted 11-09-04 02:49 PM EDT (US) 71 / 125

So, you are really Sikbok?

It is roaming the depths in eternal hunger, devouring all and everything, far from the light, lost in the shadows, alone, wandering, searching, evermore...

Gandalf theWhite
Member

posted 11-10-04 01:58 AM EDT (US) 72 / 125

From Swolte:
,,I've recently informed about the matter and it's not gonna happen. Publisher doesn't want!"
Damn it! If they won't give us the code, I'll borrow two-handed sword from one of Orc Warlords and kill them! :-) O.Kend of jokes and now serious: havewestillhasany chancesto get the code?!

Gandalf theWhite
Member

posted 11-10-04 02:01 AM EDT (US) 73 / 125

My God,obviously I wanted to write:
From Swolte:
,,I've recently informed about the matter and it's not gonna happen. Publisher doesn't want!"
Damn it! If they won't give us the code, I'll borrow two-handed sword from one of Orc Warlords and kill them (folks from Triumph)! :-) O.K. end of jokes and now serious: have we still has any chances to get the code?!

SmurfHero
Member

posted 11-10-04 03:16 AM EDT (US) 74 / 125

Quoted from Gandalf theWhite:

O.K. end of jokes and now serious: have we still has any chances to get the code?!

Until we have an absolute "No" from Take Two, I assume that we have a chance. But instead of waiting for 100 people to have signed on, I would like to suggest that we start working on the petition itself. Otherwise our motivation will drop & drop until all of us say "Oh, let's just forget about it, this is not going to happen". After all, 60 people is almost as impressive as 100 if we use the right font.

OK, so what should be in the petition? First of all a very big PLEASE of course, followed by what we plan to do with the code:
* Fix bugs
* Support for multiple campaigns
* Support for multiple rulesets
* Linux port
* New features? If so, which ones? Or should we leave that out?

One very important aspect of our request is the license under which the code would be released. I would prefer something like the GPL, but I can imagine TT not being too enthousiastic about that. Should we settle for a license that allows the use of the code only for those who own the original game? In fact that is the type of license under which the Civilization: Call to Power II source code has been released. With such a constraint, releasing the source code can never have a negative effect on AoW sales. And, if we do good, it might even increase them.

Any more reasons why TT would not want us to have the code? If we can think of the reasons, we might come up with solutuons for them. Having those solutions in our petition would increase our chances, I would say.

SmurfHero - Leader of the Smurf race

ZombieEater
Member

posted 11-11-04 06:47 PM EDT (US) 75 / 125

Quote:

Fix bugs

Yep.

Quote:

Support for multiple campaigns

Depending on how it's coded, this could be easy or hard. Worth a shot, though.

Quote:

Support for multiple rulesets

Hmm, that might be a tall order. The multiple rulesets are already working, right? Making the switching a little more user-friendly shouldn't necessarily affect the code.

Quote:

Linux port

Uh! You got anyone lined up for that? Or were you hoping to just run gcc on the source tree and bang, done!?

Quote:

New features? If so, which ones? Or should we leave that out?

Definitely in! There are a number of improvements in AoW2 and AoWSM that should be ported to AoW. Limited retaliations and all that's encompassed in that would be my personal #1.

As for licensing, keeping a tight lid on it (=only giving the source to a small group of fan-devs who have to sign NDAs) might be best and easiest to swallow for TT.

Of course, the line about Publisher doesn't want it sounds like a pretty clear no, but that's just me.

It is roaming the depths in eternal hunger, devouring all and everything, far from the light, lost in the shadows, alone, wandering, searching, evermore...

SmurfHero
Member

posted 11-16-04 10:25 AM EDT (US) 76 / 125

Has anybody seen my keyboard? Oh wait, never mind. Here it is.

SmurfHero - Leader of the Smurf race

Alphax
Member

posted 11-16-04 10:55 AM EDT (US) 77 / 125

Well, I'd like to see a better implementation of the module player, possibly add MP3 or Ogg Vorbis support, full access to the resource editors (abilities, race names, spell names, damage etc.), make the "enter" button appear on nodes and implement production from them properly, edit images and campaigns properly, fix a bunch of other bugs...

If I lost the keyboard on this computer I'd have a problem - it's a laptop...

The licensing thing could possibly be resolved by only releasing the source code, not associated materials like artwork and music. Still... not sure on this one.

~~=====================================~~ Alphax ~~==================================================~~ LASFS Operative #4 ~~=============~~The VoW Inn"I'll bribe you to change the inn link in your sig." -- TDK~~================================================================================~~

jaapjan
Member

posted 11-24-04 02:44 AM EDT (US) 78 / 125

I am very curious. There are quite a few people here interested in seeing an age of wonders with source code. But why doesn't someone (capable) start an open source recreation of age of wonders? Something like open transport tycoon?

I'm sure there are a few programmers interested? Still, it would take time and dedication.

SmurfHero
Member

posted 11-25-04 02:03 AM EDT (US) 79 / 125

Quoted from jaapjan:

I'm sure there are a few programmers interested? Still, it would take time and dedication.

Actually, that is Plan B. But since AoW is pretty close to perfection, it would be much easier and far less time-consuming to take that as a starting point. It would take us many months (if not years) to reach the level that AoW already is at.

SmurfHero - Leader of the Smurf race

jaapjan
Member

posted 11-25-04 02:40 AM EDT (US) 80 / 125

That's that a hard plan B to guess. At any rate, you're right.

However, doing this from scratch has several advantages too. Small ones admittedly.

I understand that AoW is developed in Delphi (Windows). Those wanting and anticipating playing AoW under Linux, OSX or who knows what will be left in the cold. Unless you still plan to complete port it to a C-Language.

jaapjan
Member

posted 11-25-04 02:56 AM EDT (US) 81 / 125

Does anyone know of a project already underway to achieve this?

At any rate, the knowledge about the original age of wonders files exists. Graphics and such things would not have to be recreated. The demo for AoW is also freely downloadable.

Given the succes of Plan A, you might even want to start Plan B. If you could find programmers to work on it...

SmurfHero
Member

posted 11-26-04 01:48 AM EDT (US) 82 / 125

Quoted from jaapjan:

In fact, for Linux there is a Delphi version called Kylix. So that would not be too much of a problem I hope. Unless all kinds of proprietary Windows libraries (four graphics, sound, etc) have been used.

Quoted from jaapjan:

Does anyone know of a project already underway to achieve this?

The Battle for Wesnoth looks interesting.

Quoted from jaapjan:

At any rate, the knowledge about the original age of wonders files exists. Graphics and such things would not have to be recreated. The demo for AoW is also freely downloadable.

I have no doubt that there will be enough talented artists to recreate the AoW graphics so that we wouldn't even need the original resources. Which is why I expect that TT will not release the sources under some license that allows anyone to play the game without having bought it.

Quoted from jaapjan:

Given the succes of Plan A, you might even want to start Plan B. If you could find programmers to work on it...

Who says Plan B is not yet being carried out?

SmurfHero - Leader of the Smurf race

jaapjan
Member

posted 11-26-04 05:09 AM EDT (US) 83 / 125

I can tell you within the space of a second that it uses directx and directsound, things unavailable on Linux.

Kylix is, am almost positive, no longer supported. (nor has been for some time).

Battle for Wesnoth is nice, but it isn't Age of Wonders. The site doesn't seem to work for me right now though.

Why would they be bothered if someone played age of wonders one? It shouldn't interfere with their own development. Off course I do not know how they feel about it.

As for saying Plan B is or is not already in progress. I cannot imagine someone working on it without wanting aid from other developers.

ZombieEater
Member

posted 11-29-04 04:11 PM EDT (US) 84 / 125

Try Wine on Linux. AFAIK it has DirectX support. Not the latest, but AoW shouldn't need DX9.0c.

It is roaming the depths in eternal hunger, devouring all and everything, far from the light, lost in the shadows, alone, wandering, searching, evermore...

jaapjan
Member

posted 12-02-04 07:09 AM EDT (US) 85 / 125

That sounds nice yes. Use Wine.

Unfortunately, there is no good (or any) wine for OSX. Besides that, I'd have liked the ability to expand Age of wonders. Not just play it.

White Wolf
Member

posted 12-03-04 05:30 PM EDT (US) 86 / 125

What exactly is Battle for Wesnoth? Is it a fully independent creation?

ZombieEater
Member

posted 12-03-04 10:33 PM EDT (US) 87 / 125

Maybe this?

http://games.linux.sk/index.php

Search the Strategy section for Wesnoth.

It is roaming the depths in eternal hunger, devouring all and everything, far from the light, lost in the shadows, alone, wandering, searching, evermore...

White Wolf
Member

posted 12-04-04 01:05 AM EDT (US) 88 / 125

Okay, so what is Linux?

I know I must sound like an ignorant noob. My apologies.

A Qatigattuusara
Member
(id: Dvorak)

posted 12-06-04 02:43 PM EDT (US) 89 / 125

You know m**s (Those Things made by a**le) have a different user interface to Windows? That's because tey have a different operating system, ie. m**OS. Linux is another operating system. It works on Intel-processor machines. It's free and its source code (ie. what this thread is trying to get for AoW) is free.

jaapjan
Member

posted 12-07-04 03:34 AM EDT (US) 90 / 125

To be entirely correct, it works on any architecture, not just intel. And in this case, I'd like to run age of wonders (or its duplicate) on osx.

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