You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

AoW1 Scenario & Campaign Design
Moderated by Enginerd, Ziggurat Mason

Hop to:    
Topic Subject: Historical Theme - War of 1812 by Froster
posted 03-07-09 12:44 PM EDT (US)   
This is the Thread to Vote for War in 1812, a map submitted under the Historical Theme for the Winter 2008 Mapmaking Competition. Read the discussion below by our judges and then post your score for the map and leave comments in the thread below. Score once for each map, 1-10 points. Voting Closes at the end of March.

Part of the judges discussion is below... the full text will be made available before the judging ends.


Enginerd: War of 1812 by Froster... this is a single player map depicting the war of 1812....
Enginerd: I gathered from reading the intro that Froster found this to be an interesting piece of history.
Pawel:For me it's interesting too (I didn't know anything about that war before seeing the map)
Enginerd: This map is meant to be played as Humans (Canadians) and you must fight off the Undead.
Enginerd: Oops... I stand corrected. Yeah, this is part of American history and our friends not from America might not have heard much about it. Much of this war took place on what is today the border of USA and Canada.
Disenchanted: yes...I am assessing a 6-point penalty for making the Americans a pure evil race
Enginerd: lol
Enginerd: OK... so fun little historical context. Any questions or thoughts about the history aspect of this map?
Disenchanted: with the last map I felt like the story needed to be developed. a lot. more.
Enginerd: There was a brief introduction, and I think you're highlighting the "brief" part of that intro... what else about the history did you find interesting?
Pawel:Actually I liked the intro, the primary and secondary objectives
Pawel:Feels like a wargame
Pawel:I don't like too long stories, usually I don't read them
Enginerd: OK... so too long is bad... but needs to have enough content and not be too brief.... both of you seeing small differences there.
Enginerd: (I always like seeing how people look at maps differently)
Disenchanted: This is the whole story:
Disenchanted: “The USA is trying to take over Upper Canada, in 1812, a battle between the USA and British troops. The USA has control of Lake Erie and Lake Ontario, and are trying to enter through the Detroit and Niagara Rivers, and also have control of the Town of York (current-day Toronto). The British soldiers have all the main colonized settlements on their side. Play as the British troops and defend Canada”
Pawel:yes, I'd add some more historical context: what caused the war etc.
Disenchanted: It's nice how it tells you about the battles that are about to take place (which I assume are historically accurate, I didn't check)
Disenchanted: but yes it doesn't go into the actual HISTORY of the events
Enginerd: Good comments, anything else on the history piece of this map?
Disenchanted: well, comparing it to Mene in Venezuela, the map design (assuming it's based on real battles) is more closely related to the theme, so that's a plus
Disenchanted: I think that's about all
Enginerd: OK.. so this map is meant to be played as Humans. Did you play leaders ON or OFF? (it wasn't clear in the description which way to play)
Disenchanted: off
Enginerd: I played with leaders off too (that's probably enough of reminder to the mapmaker to spell it out in the map description, leaders OFF).
Pawel:"This level must be played with Leaders OFF." - it's in the download description
Enginerd: So... what did you think?
Disenchanted: can I give a summary of how the game went, then explain what I did and didn't like
Enginerd: yes
Enginerd: (this is where we get 5 pre-typed posts that takes us a few minutes to read )
Disenchanted: yes it we go
Disenchanted: it's kind of important because the trajectory of it was so weird...notably that the game was practically over by turn 3
Disenchanted: By day 2, the Undead had already been decisively defeated.
Disenchanted: By day 3 they had usually lost literally all their cities and armies in Canada and Michigan (at most they had left the odd one-hex and one stack of reinforcements I coudln't reach.)
Disenchanted: So after that there's not much left to do but build a navy to take over ohio or whatever that is...the Undead have already unloaded most of their ships, so this part is both long and uneventful. (The undead reinforcements don't accomplish much anyway, as they are unloaded 6 at a time in different places...)

Disenchanted: That's the the analysis
Disenchanted: white space
Disenchanted: ----------
Disenchanted: Basically we're starting in medias res.* I like the idea of an instant action SP map - start both sides substantial armies and empires. However, I think the mapmaker took this idea too far:
Disenchanted: 1. There are no independent towns and no exploration
Disenchanted: 2. There is no need to produce ANY units besides ships
Disenchanted: This completely eliminates some of the more interesting aspects of the game.
Disenchanted: Finally, for all its complexity, there isn't much depth or challenge...the action goes the same way every time, and is all but over by day 2.
Enginerd: Pawel.. your thoughts?
Pawel:I agree with the preceding speaker
Pawel:I generally felt like the map is too easy
Enginerd: (I was playing all my battles in FC so it took a few more than 3 days to mop up most of the Canadian lands)
Pawel:both sides have similar forces, the AI should have much more than the human player to be competitive
Disenchanted: I think humans actually have more! :|
Disenchanted: but the point is it's too easy
Disenchanted: and as I said I've played it multiple times and it's like the same game every time
Pawel:if the Undead had some Wraiths, it would make the situation more interesting
Enginerd: Great comments.... so what things would you recommend doing to improve upon it.
Enginerd: Wraiths...
Disenchanted: to improve...well, *not* do the things I complained about
Enginerd: lol...
Disenchanted: so...1. make the army smaller, 2. don't start with human player controlling every city, so there is at least some need to build and explore
Enginerd: What about poison and death altars?
Pawel:where is the poison altar?
Enginerd: I was thinking they could have been added.
Pawel:I've seen only life and death
Pawel:the game is decided in a few days, so the altars are not an important factor
Disenchanted: I think the problems we've been discussing are much more fundamental...once those are fixed we could think about adding toys like altars
Enginerd: OK... so... beefing up the AI, giving something for the Humans to explore and conquer... make it more of a challenge and something that could go in multiple paths and take more than 3-4 days.
Disenchanted: more unit variety would be nice...either give humans a variety of units, or (as I've said probably twice now) give them fewer units, so there's a need to produce
Pawel:I'd add some independent cities of other races, representing the natives
Disenchanted: that's a very good idea
Pawel:they took a part in that war too
Disenchanted: which would tie in well to the story/theme
Pawel:also the description mentions that there is 'wildlife' in the north
Disenchanted: and there isn't, I noticed...
Pawel:I expected some animals there, and haven't found any
Enginerd: I expected them too.
Disenchanted: either that was an oversight, or a practical joke (maybe Froster thought it would be funny to say watch out for ferocious animals that will EAT YOU to make us paranoid)
Enginerd: cruel joke
Enginerd: OK... we've covered history, playability. How about the general feel or look of things? Any other thoughts?
Pawel:I like the map design, the terrain looks natural
Disenchanted: yes it's pretty well designed, aesthetically
Enginerd: Aesthetics... anything else?
Disenchanted: I think we agree it's above avergae aesthetically, not much more to say about that
Disenchanted: is that everything?
Pawel:wait a moment
Pawel:I think some custom heroes would be nice, depicting the military leaders of that war
Pawel:including some native ones. It's kind of strange to have "Jacob the Noble" as a hero on this map
Disenchanted: nice idea...the heroes could definitely fit the theme better, you could say that about the normal units too maybe
Pawel:I think the musketeers fit the theme well
Disenchanted: maybe the natives should be all archers and the US/UK should have musketeers, cannon and cavalry I mean
Enginerd: That would fit.
Enginerd: Anything else?
Pawel:that's all from me
Enginerd: Judges your scores?

------come back in a week to see the judges scores----

Disenchanted: 5
Enginerd: Any final comments?
Pawel:I think this map has great potential, with some improvements it can be a very good SP scenario
Disenchanted: yes but it also has fatal flaws so I think your score is too high
Enginerd: Judges never agree (well almost never).
Enginerd: Anyways....
Pawel:if there is a version where you have to explore the map, convince the natives to join you, and face more dangerous AI forces, I'd give it 9 or 10
Pawel:(and let's not forget about the animals)
Enginerd: Thanks for your comments. I think this concludes our review of War of 1812! The judges overall score for this map was a 6. Well done Froster.


[This message has been edited by Enginerd (edited 03-23-2009 @ 07:08 PM).]

posted 03-15-09 12:25 PM EDT (US)     1 / 7  
Thread now open for voting. Good Luck Froster.
posted 03-15-09 09:01 PM EDT (US)     2 / 7  
Header has been updated with the judges comments.... come back in a week to see their scores.
posted 03-18-09 01:28 PM EDT (US)     3 / 7  
My vote goes to this map! Marvelous work, all, but this one of the choices is my favorite to play. Hooray for Canada!

EDIT: Hmm, you changed the start a bit. Interesting, now the US has secured a bit of area on the outskirts. I left my full comment on the downloads page. Overall, War of 1812 recieves a 7/10 from me! (Fun map, starting out with stuff makes it quicker and more enjoyable, but it's not my favorite map of all the ones I've played, not enough exploring and trinkets for my tastes.)

Rating is 7/10.

[This message has been edited by Alphonze 56 (edited 04-03-2009 @ 12:11 PM).]

posted 03-18-09 04:39 PM EDT (US)     4 / 7  
A vote should be a score between 1 and 10...

Edit: So, you're really scoring the map (ideally all the maps, but you're free to rate as many as you like), not voting for it. I don't know why we're calling it voting, except that the winner will be determined by averaging everyone's scores, so it's sort of like an election.

[This message has been edited by disenchanted (edited 03-19-2009 @ 09:01 AM).]

posted 03-18-09 09:02 PM EDT (US)     5 / 7  
Thanks, Alphonze!

But Disenchanted is right, it should be from 1 to 10.

Jim Brannen
Skype: jim_brannen
Timezone: -5 GMT (New York Time)
posted 03-23-09 07:09 PM EDT (US)     6 / 7  
Header updated.... added the score for the judges.
posted 03-27-09 09:18 PM EDT (US)     7 / 7  
Well, I've revised it, made it better, made it so you have to buy/capture cities, added wildlife, etc.

edit: It'll hit the downloads section soon.

Jim Brannen
Skype: jim_brannen
Timezone: -5 GMT (New York Time)

[This message has been edited by Froster (edited 04-05-2009 @ 07:12 PM).]

Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW1 Scenario & Campaign Design » Historical Theme - War of 1812 by Froster
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register
Hop to:    
Age of Wonders 2 Heaven | HeavenGames