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Topic Subject: My Vision For PBEM - Original Campaign PBEM Tourney
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posted 12-05-08 00:18 AM EDT (US)   
So I have no idea how practical or achievable this is, but I felt like just talking about it since I think it's a cool idea.

I was thinking about how cool it would be if we were to do some sort of PBEM campaign where we went through all the dev-made scenarios that came with the game, in chronological order (so beginning with Blood Isles), with each player assigned to a different race. Each player represents this race throughout the campaign, and joins in on every map that there race is represented on. This means that whoever plays Humans, Elves, Halflings, Goblins, etc, will get a whole bunch of games, while those who play Highmen, Lizards, etc, will play fairly rarely. After each game, races will be given points depending on its outcome - the race with the most points at the end (or whenever everyone calls it quits) would be declared the dominant faction of the Valley of Wonders. Larger maps might be glossed over to save time (i.e. After the Fall, Oracle's Eye) - unless there is a large demand to do those maps. I'll admit that After the Fall would be a lot of fun in this kind of context, but it might just bog things down too much.

Players could even conduct diplomacy outside of games - for example, perhaps the Elves would want to form a consistent alliance with the Halflings, so that they always go into maps with the expectation that they will ally with one another. This could even see factions arise - the Elves, Halflings and Dwarves band together, only to be matched by an alliance of Dark Elves, Orcs and Goblins. However, the treacherous Goblins abandon their masters to join the more promising Human-Azrac coalition. Perhaps rivalries between factions could erupt - the Undead form an alliance with the Dark Elves in game, but refuse to join their faction outside of the game, so the Dark Elves issue a "join or die" ultimatum. Or let it slide. Who knows?

I'm aware that having twelve commited players to do this is unlikely, so we would probably cut out races starting with the least present. Also the scoring system introduced would have to make sure that races are balanced depending on how present they are (perhaps + x points for victory and - x points for defeat? That way races who are in almost every map would have a higher chance at getting more points, but also a higher chance of losing some). Anyway, what do you think? Is it plausible? Or just a pipe dream?
posted 12-05-08 00:43 AM EDT (US)     1 / 299  
Interesting idea...

If you've come for a visit, you'd be welcome with fewer, if you've come to take me away, you'll need a lot more.
posted 12-05-08 07:18 AM EDT (US)     2 / 299  
I'd go for it.

Jim Brannen
Skype: jim_brannen
Timezone: -5 GMT (New York Time)
posted 12-05-08 01:20 PM EDT (US)     3 / 299  
Getting a 2+ year commitment from people may be tough.
posted 12-06-08 11:10 AM EDT (US)     4 / 299  
First of all, welcome back Unknown250. We were indeed missing you at more than one stage, glad to have the gone coming back.
About this idea, I have been thinking something very similar not too long ago, but decided to pull the idea to future due my restricted freedom issues at this time of life (thought I'm almost there ). So yes, I am interested of this and if you like I am interested to help you organizing this if you decide to and need help.. And what it comes to this "demoralizating attempt" TM of Angel Draco , the commitment is never issue in surviving society that is filled with potent and interested substitutes!
I think that the greatest failure here would be not trying at all.

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Frozen Warrior-/X\(++)/X\-
posted 12-06-08 05:58 PM EDT (US)     5 / 299  
Thanks for the encouragement, everyone!

It would be a significant commitment, and the campaign may not make its way to the end of the last scenario (which would be Honeyvale Falls if I'm not mistaken), but that doesn't mean it wouldn't still be worth doing.

Would anyone else be interested?
posted 12-06-08 10:35 PM EDT (US)     6 / 299  
Id be in! Humans for me if possible
posted 12-07-08 03:23 AM EDT (US)     7 / 299  
So here are the race tallies of the different maps, in case people are interested:

Humans - 8*
Azracs - 5
Frostlings - 5
Lizardmen - 3*
Elves - 9
Halflings - 7
Dwarves - 9**
Highmen - 1
Dark Elves - 7
Goblins - 9
Orcs - 14
Undead - 5***

* - If races are enabled on Kinslayers
** - If Dwarves are enabled on Mine All Mine
*** - If Undead are enabled on Rocky Hollow

962 - Blood Isles
965 - First Conflict
993 - Kin Slayers
1000 - Reign of Chaos
1001 - Toadstool Vale
1013 - Mine All Mine
1020 - Heartwood Forest
1048 - Icedale
1054 - Diplomacy With Dragons
1084 - Reedfin Canal
1090 - Barondir Bay
1096 - Rise of the South
1111 - Mountain Clash
1122 - Rocky Hollow
1148 - Cold Fusion
1151 - Love Thy Neighbour
1163 - Igor's Folly
1172 - Thinreed Lake
1175 - River of Life
1203 - Honeyvale Falls

So Orcs are present on almost every single map, so if anyone wants to play and play lots they'd be the good choice there. Apart from that all the straight good and evil races are around quite a lot, as are Humans, so those are probably the best picks. The other Neutrals are fairly infrequent. The Undead are as well, but they are almost exclusively towards the end (the only map they're on prior to 1122 is Icedale) so if someone wants to play them, bear in mind that it might be quite a while before they actually get to see some action. This would be a good thing if someone is far too busy now but would like to get involved later. The other races are all fairly evenly distributed. Highmen are basically pointless as they are only present on one map, and that's a 1v1 (unless we do After The Fall).

Very cool how River of Life is the second last scenario - it's the biggest one, so it would make a fitting endgame if we made it that far.

Many games could be run simultaneously as well, depending on the willingness of the players.

I'm still trying to decide if unfilled slots would be set to Independent or CPU Emporer. It might end up having to be a map-to-map basis. Anyway, that's just a list so that people know how often different races would play and what the map order would be.
posted 12-07-08 03:41 AM EDT (US)     8 / 299  
Actually, on a completely unrelated note, it's pretty cool how the groupings work out - it makes a lot of sense in terms of the lore and it shows that the devs actually thought out who should go on what map, rather than arbitrarily assigning it.

Orcs are present on almost every map, fitting in with their already violent propensities and emphasizing their role as the muscle for the Cult of Storms. Goblins show up fairly frequently as their support. The Dark Elves themselves don't like getting their hands dirty, so they show up the least.

The Elves, on the other hand, like to take direct responsibility for the Keepers, so they're around a lot. The Dwarves are second, while the peaceful Halflings are the least active.

Humans, being recent and successful conquerors, are well represented.

Azracs and Frostlings are races who are fairly well removed from affairs but make an effort to conquer whenever they can, and so they pop up occasionally.

The Lizardmen generally keep to themselves and don't really engage much with outsiders on any level, and so their low level of participation makes sense. Similarly the Highmen are extremely enigmatic, so it's very true to form that they appear on only one of the maps chosen, and even then it's only to fight Undead.

The Undead, as stated above, don't really appear until later in the campaign.

I just thought that was kind of cool, it tends to line up with the general character of the races.
posted 12-07-08 03:51 AM EDT (US)     9 / 299  
If this is actually going to happen, I'd be happy to play the orcsies.... :-D

If you've come for a visit, you'd be welcome with fewer, if you've come to take me away, you'll need a lot more.
posted 12-07-08 11:28 AM EDT (US)     10 / 299  
I'll take Dwarves.

Jim Brannen
Skype: jim_brannen
Timezone: -5 GMT (New York Time)
posted 12-07-08 11:53 AM EDT (US)     11 / 299  
So as said, if this is going to happen, I am willing to play Dark Elves.

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Frozen Warrior-/X\(++)/X\-
posted 12-07-08 12:46 PM EDT (US)     12 / 299  
Interesting! I'll play whatever is leftover, but if I should chose, I'll take the Higmen, Lizards or Undead.
posted 12-07-08 03:27 PM EDT (US)     13 / 299  
Was this to happen, I'd like to play the Halflings if possible
posted 12-27-08 11:15 AM EDT (US)     14 / 299  
I like the idea. What about adding the 3 extra scenarios (available in this archive):

1012 - Circles - Dwarves/Orcs/Elves/Dark Elves/Halflings/Goblins/Highmen/Undead
1114+ - Elementally Unstable - Orcs/Frostlings/Lizardmen/Goblins
1138 - The Great Wasting - Undead/Elves/Goblins/Dwarves/Dark Elves/Highmen

These scenarios were made by the game devs, just like the ones that came with the game, and released as a part of a Gamestop promotion.

We can also use some campaign scenarios (there are "multiplayerized" versions of Serpent River and Valley of Wonders available).

I can play as Elves (preferably) or Humans.

Edit: I just noticed slipkyes' post, who wants to be Humans. So I'll be Elves.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

[This message has been edited by PawelS (edited 12-27-2008 @ 05:48 PM).]

posted 12-27-08 05:38 PM EDT (US)     15 / 299  
So if I counted correctly, there are eight people so far willing to play.

PawelS, are there any other scenarios like that (didn't come with the game, but made by the game makers) that you know of?

Jim Brannen
Skype: jim_brannen
Timezone: -5 GMT (New York Time)

[This message has been edited by Froster (edited 12-27-2008 @ 05:42 PM).]

posted 12-27-08 05:46 PM EDT (US)     16 / 299  
None that I know of, except some scenarios made by RayB, but they are generally quite 'weird', and IIRC not linked to the AoW storyline.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
posted 12-28-08 06:12 AM EDT (US)     17 / 299  
Hopefully Unknown (is/)is going to be around again sometime soon, so that we could get this vision further and eventually perhaps going. It would be such a waste if this ends up dead with so many interested participants this far... *ahem*..
Concerning that, should there be similar case to the past where Unknown was "forced" on void by unpleasant and unlucky events, is there someone out here who thinks that he/she can manage this vision as organizator? By no means Im not pressuring Unknown nor pushing him away, but if we have a backup plan figured out there, just in case, this vision has more change to actually come true rather than wither away.

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Frozen Warrior-/X\(++)/X\-
posted 12-28-08 08:05 AM EDT (US)     18 / 299  
I'm not very familiar with the AoW storyline, but if it's only setting up a set of pbem games and maintaining a scoring system, I think I can manage it.

Btw here is my proposal of the scoring system: I think Allied Victory should be enabled, and there should be a "success rate" calculated for every player. The success rate is the percentage of games in which the player is a part of the winning alliance. For example, a player that is involved in 8 games, and is in the winning alliance in 2 of them, has a success rate of 25%. The player with the highest success rate wins.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
posted 12-28-08 10:02 AM EDT (US)     19 / 299  
Yes, exactly, there will be allied victory, and that's an interesting part. Because, say, on one map the elves decide to join the humans and take out one of the other keepers race, there could be a revenge opportunity on the next map. :-)
Interesting :-)

And the success rate is a cool idea, but it's meaningless if the Highmen win on their one map and have a 100% success rate... it's a bit unfair, so I suggest a correction to this equation.
posted 12-28-08 10:38 AM EDT (US)     20 / 299  
As it was suggested before, the less popular races can be played by the AI, every participant should play at least 5 games.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
posted 01-02-09 11:16 AM EDT (US)     21 / 299  
yes, that would be a good idea!
posted 01-02-09 11:37 AM EDT (US)     22 / 299  
I think we are ready to hit it Pawel.
If you need help with this burden you take as your own, I am finally here to aid. May the campaign begin!

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Frozen Warrior-/X\(++)/X\-
posted 01-02-09 11:52 AM EDT (US)     23 / 299  
Maybe we should wait a little more for Unknown to show up again, or try to contact him. Does anyone know his email address?

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
posted 01-02-09 12:06 PM EDT (US)     24 / 299  
Anyway, here is a summary of all who applied so far:

Humans - Slipkyes
Azracs - [free]
Lizardmen - [probably AI]
Frostlings - [free]
Elves - PawelS
Halflings - Gandalf the White
Dwarves - Froster
Ar Highmen - [probably AI]
Dark Elves - Deroman
Orcs - Thorongil
Goblins - [free]
Undead - TuoDrable

So there are still 3 free positions (Azracs, Frostlings and Goblins). Lizards and Highmen will be probably played by the AI.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

[This message has been edited by PawelS (edited 01-02-2009 @ 12:07 PM).]

posted 01-02-09 02:25 PM EDT (US)     25 / 299  
I can pick up one of the races left, don't care which one. I've got an email for Unknown somewhere I think I'll check on it and see if I can't bug him about this. We can get some good publicity and newsposts and stickies to keep it highlighted too but I want Unknown to lead things as it is his idea (and a very intersting one).
posted 01-03-09 01:32 AM EDT (US)     26 / 299  
posted 01-03-09 06:00 AM EDT (US)     27 / 299  
See, Enginerd, as I said previously I don't want to push Unknown away from this by any means, oh no. It would be more than great to get him back leading things around but since he has been gone for a short while now, being quite longer while gone before that, it might just be that he is not returning anytime soon.. so the question is when does the delay start to work against itself and eventually start killing the idea? Are we really so formal that we need a personal permission to use or adapt the idea to work it out, letting it rather die than using it because of some unspoken rules of good behaviour?..

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Frozen Warrior-/X\(++)/X\-
posted 01-03-09 06:04 AM EDT (US)     28 / 299  
I think we just need to wait a few days, if he doesn't answer, I'll start to organize this.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
posted 01-03-09 09:58 AM EDT (US)     29 / 299  
We get subs for games all the time so no I don't see any problems with Pawel (or anyone else for that matter) taking up the charge for this. I just didn't want to start it without letting him know that it was being taken over. I sent him email, as Pawel says, let's give him a couple days or so.

And I think there might be one race left with Draco joining. Maybe I should pick between the two remaining rather than leave it random
posted 01-03-09 10:56 AM EDT (US)     30 / 299  
Alright then, patience is bliss.

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Frozen Warrior-/X\(++)/X\-
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