You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

AoW2/SM Competitions, Tournaments & Wizard's Ladder
Moderated by Timelord

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.7 replies
Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW2/SM Competitions, Tournaments & Wizard's Ladder » 1:st place, Gates of Elocin by The Groll - Judges comments
Bottom
Topic Subject:1:st place, Gates of Elocin by The Groll - Judges comments
Magog
Member
posted 02-01-06 12:45 PM EDT (US)         
The judges had no problems figuring out who the author of this map was.

Magog : This map is slightly annoying at first, as the story is way too long and your wizard is under a lot of preassure in the first few turns. But as the turns go by, you start building up your army and begin to explore the world (which is very beautiful). This is what makes the map fun to me, you are allowed to explore without getting attacked by hordes of enemies but you must still beware of sudden attacks from your enemies. You are pretty much left alone by the other wizards, and this allows you to build up a large army before attacking them. I personally like maps that are not impossible to beat, but some players will probably find this map too easy.

Swolte : Where 'Zombie Stories' was subtle, this map is a slap in the face!

It sparks with a creative force that sometimes hurts your eyes! Its a monster of a map that will take months to play and shows off what is possible with the AoW-SM Editor when pushed to it's limits! It's overdone in quite some areas, cluttered and you can even say that it bursts with too many ideas! It begs to be channeled and contained and you want to say: there is more in less!!

The biggest issue with this map, however, lies in the playability that will not appeal to everybody. Had this mapmaker designed 4 'CPU only' and 2 playable sides, this map would have been a LOT better in terms of playability. Currently, the insane amount of 'standing still' indies allows for a very slow game and even cripples the AI. Sometimes the game is so slow, that it actually gets boring! Having less playable sides also allows for much more emphasis on storytelling aspects, AI control and prevents bugs that trigger events that are actually meant for other players.
For a pure multiplayer like me, its not always fun to take on non-moving independents and the game has a tendency to drag.

Despite these points, this map simply leaves all others behind in terms of amount of content, replayability, mapmaking techniques and different storylines! When I pushed through the initial 'drag' (day 30/40... ), there was a world to explore that had no limits and the AI DID become a challenge! Events are everywhere and it makes the world alive and gives the player goals! It made a big impression on me and it works inspiring to me as a mapmaker. This map stands strong as a rock and alone provides for days and days of playvalue!!

Bugs/tips:
- Please stop making single player maps that have over 5 playable sides or start making multiplayer maps!
- Orcs: where is Broch??
- I had an AI player die on day 3... (the dwarf)
- There is way too much text in the introduction. Keep it short and to the point! This is ridiculous.
- There is a crossbow item, but it doesn't allow the user to shoot a bolt...
- Sometimes events go off that seem to be meant for other players (Enelrams Pass).
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------

So, we have the champion of originality, mappainting, storytelling and gameplay!!

The Stranger : Firstly, this is the map I have returned to the most. In part, this is because the author gives us 8 playable races, which makes for interesting and diverse challenges. On the other hand, not creating an exclusively Computer player AI with resource advantages/unit spawns, means that much of the competitive part of the scenario must be created by independents, who often behave in an unpredictable manner! For example, as the Dwarf Wizard, I had hundred of Dwarf “berserkers” spawning in my lands, but they did nothing. The just wandered around. But then, once I attempted to attack the Undead/Dwarf wizard’s tower, all the berserker’s began attacking me! Furthermore, spawning units around Dain IV’s became impossible to deal with. I could not move units because of the event spawns, which caused my own stacks to get stuck with the running in place animation—i.e. the top units acts like it is moving, but the stack is unelectable. This can be corrected by reloading the game or getting attacked, but it’s annoying . Also, if the Dwarf is set as a computer player he always dies the first turn when the two Nightmares are spawned by his capital. So, while the events are very ambitious and in theory would work well, they need to be tinkered with and perfected. More time/a longer deadline would have helped here

Ok, the detail and amount of work required for this scenario is staggering. I tried starting with each player just to see the area around their cities. It was all unique, creative, and beautiful. The author is clearly a master of creating believable, immersive, attractive terrain. There are many beautiful nooks and crannies where little cities and regions lie and represent miniature worlds. The layout of this map is equally impressive and evenly distributed, although perhaps a few alternative paths to the same place would give it more replayability. In summary, because of the terrific terrain painting and distribution of magical places across the map, it feels like a much bigger place—a complete world. Wonderful work!

This map was fun to play. I tried it many times not just to evaluate it, but because it was such a pleasure to enter and explore the map. But, because many of the events didn’t seem to work according to the mapmaker’s intentions, the storyline was thrown off and the map became too cluttered with inactive independents. (I know the Groll made this, and so I would like to recommend that in your next map you make a really strong computer player or two and spawn some of their units as berserkers and raiders! It really adds a challenge to the maps. Your maps are so beautiful, adding a challenging AI would make them the best around)


Timelord : A visually beautiful map (some of the areas are quite intricate - like the entire human kingdom, well developed and barricaded behind walls). As a single-player experience, I doubt this would compare against any of the other 3 maps. The beginning of the story and the quest is a nice start, though it fails to add on later. The AI, as usual, is really no good in a map as large as this - especially with so many wizards.

[This message has been edited by Magog (edited 02-01-2006 @ 12:48 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 02-01-06 03:15 PM EDT (US)     1 / 7       
CONGRATULATIONS!!!


Quote:

So, we have the champion of originality, mappainting, storytelling and gameplay!!

This comment is actually meant for Magog:
Champion of - Originality would be Sin, - Mappainting the Groll, - Storytelling Psykitty and - Gameplay for Alex!




Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

[This message has been edited by swolte (edited 02-01-2006 @ 03:19 PM).]

Timelord
HG Cherub
posted 02-02-06 00:52 AM EDT (US)     2 / 7       
I would have to agree with Swolte on this -

Quote:

Please stop making single player maps that have over 5 playable sides or start making multiplayer maps!

With the AOW:SM AI, designing a single-player map with more than 4 or 5 wizards is a pain. Either you should continually buff up the AI in-game (like Webusver does) or be prepared to change it into a multiplayer one. Since this was a single-player map-making competition, this map received very low points from me.


2009 1v1-Mapmaking Champion, Former PBEM Singles Champion, Proud contributor to the UPatch 1.4 and 1.5 effort
War of the Twins- 1 vs 1 PBEM map, Too Much Water - 1 vs 1 PBEM map, winner of 2009 1vs1 Mapmaking Challenge
My Dragon Age development blog
The Groll
Member
posted 02-02-06 02:20 AM EDT (US)     3 / 7       
Thank you all very much for your votes and for your commentarys.
Iīm of course very, very happy with this results.
It seams that all the work is payed back now, but it was very narrow.


Thanks, too for your comments.
As you know, Iīm still working and playtesting the map, and I want to inform you about some of your tips/bugreports that you have found in this map.
At the version you had (I think it was v_1i) for playing and testing, there are some bugs in, that are removed along for some weeks.

- The Dwarfen Wizzard (Drain Ironfist) Dying problem is removed.
- The to massive spawning dwarfen units problem is removed near Dains IVīs City.
- The two nightmarees are not placed by me and not spawned by me! I donīt know where they come from, because even the Independent A.I. is off. Iīm still searching, but I realy have no idea why the came up every first turn near Drains City. If someone found the reason, why they come up and where I would thank you very much. I usesd many testarmys to find them but I did not. They spawn out of nothing!
- All Computer A.I. Wizzards gets bonus now for units and gold if played only by the A.I. now. So the A.I. gets stronger at the beginning of the game and will, be a more dangerous enemy.
- For The Stranger: There should be a part II with a strong all crushing Grabberack (not playable by humans) that have changed the whole world, breaking out of the shadows.


I have a little Question:
Have someone played the Orcs and have opened the surface-gate by using the two Orc Artefacts (Necromat skull & Dragon soul) at the predesigned Area inside the Tempel?
Or how do you get down to the dungeons?


AoWSM Maps: 1. Marlenes Welt 2. Marlenes Schatten 3. Marlenes Gnade
Up.1.4 Maps: 4. Secrets of Marlenia (UPatch 1.4 Map - update) 5. Gates of Elocin - Part I (Mapmaking Competition - Winning Map) 6. Davidīs Winter Wonderland 7. Fairy Wedding
8. Marleneīs_Laughter 9. The Gods Arena Of Magic And Power 10. The_Wilderness 11. Kayland (AoW I Mod) 12. Mia-Mina_&_The_Seadrake
11. AoW I Sound Set for AoWSM 12. Gentleman Rules Set
Need Help? The Conqueror's Fieldguide to The Groll's Universe
Proud member of the Upatch 1.4 & 1.5 Team
Timelord
HG Cherub
posted 02-02-06 03:17 AM EDT (US)     4 / 7       
I started playing the orcs but was killed on turn 6 or 7 *blush* when my wizard tried to recapture my capital from a roaming pternadon rider (forgot my city had a Tower Guard!)

Maybe I will find time to try the Orcs again next week.


2009 1v1-Mapmaking Champion, Former PBEM Singles Champion, Proud contributor to the UPatch 1.4 and 1.5 effort
War of the Twins- 1 vs 1 PBEM map, Too Much Water - 1 vs 1 PBEM map, winner of 2009 1vs1 Mapmaking Challenge
My Dragon Age development blog
The Groll
Member
posted 02-02-06 10:45 AM EDT (US)     5 / 7       
Hi all!

Maybe you judges have fun, telling me, with races you have played and maybe telling me how it goes?
I thought that this map making competition was set up to your judges have to play only one race and this race must be the one we mapmakers have set up as human players.
I have read this in the mapmaking instructions dialog from magog. I must say I read it very late and so I made a map that is playable for all races as human players. But maybe I missunderstand the instruction. My english is not as good as it needs to be for so detailed instructions, somtimes. I realise that you have not to choose the race we have set up as humans and can choose one by yourself and must not play the one race I give you as human player I was surprised. I choose the Orcs for you to play, but anyway, I have won.
I was only a little bit surprised that no one told me how you find the Events when you open the surface gate when palying the Orcs. Because this was one point of view you had to vote (The use of the predesigned area)
If you want to play the map again then I want to send you the latest version of the map. I have fixed many errors there.
It is not finaly ready now and not ready for official upload to HG but if someone of you judges want to play it again, then you should play it in the latest version v_1q at the moment.
Please tell me if you want to play the latest version. I will send it to your e-mail adress then.


AoWSM Maps: 1. Marlenes Welt 2. Marlenes Schatten 3. Marlenes Gnade
Up.1.4 Maps: 4. Secrets of Marlenia (UPatch 1.4 Map - update) 5. Gates of Elocin - Part I (Mapmaking Competition - Winning Map) 6. Davidīs Winter Wonderland 7. Fairy Wedding
8. Marleneīs_Laughter 9. The Gods Arena Of Magic And Power 10. The_Wilderness 11. Kayland (AoW I Mod) 12. Mia-Mina_&_The_Seadrake
11. AoW I Sound Set for AoWSM 12. Gentleman Rules Set
Need Help? The Conqueror's Fieldguide to The Groll's Universe
Proud member of the Upatch 1.4 & 1.5 Team
Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 02-02-06 11:17 AM EDT (US)     6 / 7       

Quote:

The two nightmarees are not placed by me and not spawned by me! I donīt know where they come from, because even the Independent A.I. is off. Iīm still searching, but I realy have no idea why the came up every first turn near Drains City. If someone found the reason, why they come up and where I would thank you very much. I usesd many testarmys to find them but I did not. They spawn out of nothing!

Well, usually when people cannot find them, they come through a teleporter gate when they are set on guard area or patrol.

I played humans first: this took me very long and I always refuse to reload games. When I was very unlucky in one battle, it took me long to build up again.
The area looked very good, though!

Then I played Orcs, but I went another way to explore (not the stones). Again, it also took me very long to get the game started and built up.

Then I played the elves, where I simply waited until I could buy the superstacks (this to me, is the only smart way). I was impatient, so I lost a lot doing interesting battles with the new units and ended up exploring south towards the humans (that were defensive).

Had great fun exploring the beautiful map!



Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
The Groll
Member
posted 02-20-06 09:10 AM EDT (US)     7 / 7       
Work on the map goes on every day.
I am in end testing phase now.
Hope the map will come up to HGīs download section next week.
Itīs very difficult to make good balance settings and a strong A.I. but I hope I have found some good settings.

Iīm sure that this map will have a stronger A.I. as other maps. Not more intelligent, (that only where possible with a A.I. patch) but stronger and it will be nevertheless possible to play all races.

There will be some errors left inside this map, because I canīt test almost everything and I know someday the release should come.


AoWSM Maps: 1. Marlenes Welt 2. Marlenes Schatten 3. Marlenes Gnade
Up.1.4 Maps: 4. Secrets of Marlenia (UPatch 1.4 Map - update) 5. Gates of Elocin - Part I (Mapmaking Competition - Winning Map) 6. Davidīs Winter Wonderland 7. Fairy Wedding
8. Marleneīs_Laughter 9. The Gods Arena Of Magic And Power 10. The_Wilderness 11. Kayland (AoW I Mod) 12. Mia-Mina_&_The_Seadrake
11. AoW I Sound Set for AoWSM 12. Gentleman Rules Set
Need Help? The Conqueror's Fieldguide to The Groll's Universe
Proud member of the Upatch 1.4 & 1.5 Team
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Wonders 2 Heaven | HeavenGames