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General Discussion & Suggestions
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Topic Subject: 1.4 changes I dislike: single damage types
posted 12-22-05 04:40 PM EDT (US)   
one of the most radical changes to gameplay the 1.4 patch brought IMHO was the reduction of multiple damage type attacks (physival / * => *).

for example, the Draconian and shadow demon level 0 unit now have a ranged attack type 'poison only'. this makes building a quick pack of 4 spitters in a conquered town for a defense against rather a lot of dangers, including single flyers quite sensless now given how much units have poison immunity. both races do now completely lack physical damage range attackers apart from machines and have gained nothing in exchange.

I understand this was made to enhance the usefullness of protections, but I still think it was a bad decision.

another example: the bone dragon. once the mightiest level 3 it was exessively nerved in the 1.3 patch. now that black breath is death only its use is even further reduced. with fire/death damage the breath attack could a) hit more units at all (death immune) and b) you could ignite whole packs of enemies and wait 2 turns for some damage before meleeing the weakened enemies to death. this gave the bone dragon a chance to be still usefull. now I don't see it's usefullnes at all any more.

this both hurts the (in comparison too weak) evil races more as they are traditionally weak in the flyer / anti-flyer department - now even more.

I vote for giving all dragon breaths back the fire and I would prefere making poison spit phy/pio at the same time reducing the damage by 50%.

what do you think?

kind regards,

posted 12-22-05 04:56 PM EDT (US)     1 / 7  
I think the idea is also to encourage you to build different types of unit (not just 4 hatchlings, for example)

I agree that the bone dragon no longer justifies the magnificent graphics

"Shooting down a plane of civilians isn't careless, it's politcal opportunism." - Stormraider
posted 12-22-05 08:24 PM EDT (US)     2 / 7  
IMO, Black Breath/Divine Breath could be better with dtMagic, as Descriptions implies ("Breathes Death/Holy Magic on to an Area in Combat.")...

And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence - R.W.Wood
The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane... - R.Kipling
[UPatch 1.4 Team] * STLpack

[This message has been edited by Turbo Beholder (edited 12-22-2005 @ 08:30 PM).]

posted 12-23-05 04:55 AM EDT (US)     3 / 7  
With this change having protections or immunities on a unit are for more valuable than before. Now a poisonprotection actually works vs poison spit. Most protections are useless without physical/magic protection.
posted 12-23-05 05:20 AM EDT (US)     4 / 7  
Imho the reduction of multiple damage type attacks is a good feature. It makes just sense for protections! Think, earlier protections were worth nothing.


for example, the Draconian and shadow demon level 0 unit now have a ranged attack type 'poison only'. this makes building a quick pack of 4 spitters in a conquered town for a defense against rather a lot of dangers

Isn't it a cheat of having strong defence with 0 level units? There's no point for complaining - each race has ballistas, great defensive unit.
posted 12-23-05 08:52 AM EDT (US)     5 / 7  

Quoted from Roger:

I agree that the bone dragon no longer justifies the magnificent graphics

thats exactly the point and what i would say, the stats of the bone dragon are a waste of a great unit model

i agree with the bone dragon issue, it was made too weak, cause some feared bone dragon rushes that were made then the game was brandnew and also dark elves were more popular than today anyways i am not so afraid, as we all know in the current mp situation that black angels are going to be massed with death sphere not bone dragons, the bone dragon is now only useful situational.


you have no black angel spell yet
you are cosmos and never get a lvl4 summon
you have no other useful lvl3 summon, for instance i would rather prefere summon the air elemental.

another big hit that the bone dragon got was by the extreme damage increase of the turn undead spell, and if you face a life wizard using bone dragons without fury or unholy champion might be suicidical.

i do not agree with all the bone dragon nerfs, especially not the hp reduction. instead one could give it more hp. it was made more expansive(slightly) the breath changed and alignment set to pure evil as all undead have it.
i would like to change the bone dragon in a possible 1.5 version not just restoring the original one, maybe make it different from the black angel, maybe increase stats a bit and give him regeneration, instead life steal. i do not see diveristy to have 2 similar flyers in the death sphere. what is the bone dragon much more than a flying bone horror? its pile of bones, just in case of the bone dragon it can even fly.

as for bombard and venomious spit, those are now extremely res based and powerful abilities, given you know how to use it wiseley. shadows have powerful lvl1 defense cause they got it both. if undead come, they need to counter with their death immunity melee units and machines(here keep in mind the lvl3 machines are vastly improved, especilally flame cannon, it got now massive defense, hp and block and undead do not have any resistence to fire), or just the magic servant summon(upkeep6 now) or other units from other races.

while maybe the damage of venomious spit is a bit too high, its just a 1 shot ability. it makes up for more diversity and thinking and people need to consider more the various immunities on units.

poldi, i suggest you to come to gs and play a game with veterans there you will see the game very differently after it.

Honored Core Balance Team Member of UPatch 1.4
Also known as TirAsleen

[This message has been edited by DarkMystery (edited 12-23-2005 @ 09:05 AM).]

posted 12-25-05 10:00 AM EDT (US)     6 / 7  
thanks for the offer, but I still prefer the LAN-party atmosphere I tend to pay game in with my friends.

we all share a tendancy to play with unlimited turns, playing out every battle in TC (most coming from a chess or go-based background). on the other hand _when_ we meet, we are sure this will be a AOW-dedicated evening...night.

I don't have enough spare-time regularly to organize online play with people I don't know, sorry. and when I play, rushing and doing quick standard operations with some main power stacks to keep in some turn limit is not my thing.

still I consider myself an expert with turn-based games. I was among the first players to play and win MoM 1.3 with Myrran Gnolls on Impossible and the most stupid games settings... I write a NetHack MOD 10 years ago to create a new stating class (prisoner - based on the Tourist, but with a cursed ball and chain to start with) to make it harder to do AoY runs and I did a clean-room reimplementation of Ultima 6 _for Windows 3.0_ around 1992. I have since played every TBS game out there (including such obscure variants as the multiplayer-patched MoM and Colonization and none of them as much as AoW1&AoW:SM.

I don't necessarily say the change on the lvl0 poison attcks was bad or I could not adapt. but I feel thes if a very major change because it completely changes when/how I use those units. I tend to concentrate on changes in the low-level section because in my kind of games, even in local multiplayer, the mechanisms between low-level troops is what matters.

remember: we play (mostly)RNG-maps with cities/nodes/goldmines/treasures variing from sparse to none but maximum indeps.

posted 12-25-05 10:38 AM EDT (US)     7 / 7  
LAN mp while nice and such does not improve your skills.

i had some german friends playing with me over lan while i was online(they were in a lan) we played regulary and they never stood a little chance.

and its not just cause of some rushing, actually i do not rush any more often and wait for the late game to see what players build up and how they play if they get access to the full features of the game. its a longer game but not really always a bigger challenge. i get my challenge when i play other good players online.

online, would improve your skills greatly and you should try it out once before commenting on it, i am sure an online game is shorter than a lan party with TC against indie stacks enabled.

Honored Core Balance Team Member of UPatch 1.4
Also known as TirAsleen
Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » General Discussion & Suggestions » 1.4 changes I dislike: single damage types
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