1. Archons are the most tough race. Holy strike makes 1-level units thougher than other, 2-level troops are thougher too, chariot is a cheater unit - it can strike like a knight and shoot like a raider. Remember history? Chariots were abandoned because of greater vulnerability and low manoeurability! But knights remained and dominated for a long time! ... Titans - units for weak cheaters! Too strong. No one can beat titans! Chariots and titans should be weakened to maintain better balance.
2. Fire breath and all shooting&flying units are cheaters. Let them take landing before using ranged weapons.
3. Undead should be strengthened. If a being is animated with magic, this does not mean, that it is weak. Look, if it is animated, it simply can't die at all! If it has not muscle power it works like a machine with above human power... Then, undead have no flying nor strong shooting warriors.
5. Halflings are weak. Defence of lepricons should be not less than 20. Lepricons vs. titans is a very short fight...
6. Incarnates are somehow weak because they have lost some immunities and lowered in statistics...
7. "Parry" - this was a good skill in AoW 1... I like knights from AoW 1. "Fearless"... Were are they hiding? May be there will be more combat skills?
8. How about boat-strategy?
9. All maps for original AoW2 should be compatible with AoWSM. Gamers have made a lot of maps and compatibility will encourage them first to upgrade their old maps to new standarts and then (after this practice) to create new great scenarios. Otherwise, forced to begin from zero, they will be discouraged somehow, and at first we will see lots of poor scenarios, which will not be a good promotional action.

It'd be very nice if the Blue guys can comment on any points marked with '*'. Ideally, of course is to say you see how important they are and would try to implement XXX as long as there is resource avaliable.

gif77, 1 to 6 were addressed here 8. What's boat-Strategy? 9. Devs have already promised this.

New Addition:

G7. HP and MovPt Bar
- toggle on/off via keystroke
- Shows current unit MovPt & HP in combat map; shows a Stack's current & max. possible HP, avg & the MovPt of the fastest unit in overland map
- Quick overview of units/stack possible movement range & current strength in combat/overland map
- See what units have finished the move in combat; lesser need to cycle

I want Julia to be more like she is in AoW I, not as she was in AoW II.

The same goes for Meandor and Gabriel, if they're still around.

I also want to see Elric back (and Talic, too, if it is reasonable). And let Elric be the King of the Elven Court!

I wish wizards towers were less expensive, otherwise there will be less "Wonders" in the age.

Wow. That is quite a list. It is going to take forever to do that. I just want them to get the thing done so I can start playing it.

This list has been around for quite a while. I keep updating it because they are VERY important (compared with so much noises in other threads these days... hermit)

Most wishes (with a few exception) does not require major efforts from Devs. I don't mind if they don't release AOWSM this Sept, in order to put many wishes in this wish list. But, of course, that depends on the finicial, political pressure the devs are facing. No one know (unless you are Devs) if there'd be ever be other Expansion after AOWSM.

So if AOWSM is the last version of AOW, make sure it'd be damn prefect. And hopefully AOWSM will sell exceptionally well, that they will make another expansion due to financial reasons.

New Change:
8.* Tune Down Flyers (Climber/DarkMystery/Kharagh) (or here)
- All flyers lose the flying ability temporary, -30% maximum MovPt, -2 Def; whenever 50% HP is lost.

Hey everyone. I just finished the AoW2 campaign and am having some fun with the HeavenGames scenarios while we wait for AOW:SM, so I'm new to the boards. Thought I'd add my 2 cents to the mix

@ Climber: Some good ideas in there. Here's hoping the devs implement at least a few of them. *My own pet peeve is that the AI can't use boats (already mentioned, but VERY noteworthy since it removes an entire dimension from defense against the CPU wizards). Also, the pioneer restrictions (ie. city distance, clueless AI, lack of options, the requirement of 'using up' an entire pioneer unit whether it's a city of 2500 or a windmill (!?!), etc.) need to be addressed by the team since it looks like AoW2 is never going to be patched again
* Note: sorry if these points were mentioned already.

@ gif77: I agree that some of the races/spheres are overpowered/underpowered, especially with respect to the AI. However, there are already tactics available ingame to offset a lot of your gripes...

>>>Holy strike makes 1-level units thougher than other, 2-level troops are thougher too.

The only level-1 units I use anymore are archers (where holy strike is meaningless) and occasionally the elven glade runner or the draconian Hatchling. IMO, Holy Strike for 1st level units is only an advantage on paper, not in reality. While there's no denying that archons have some great level-2 units, other races have good lvl-2 troops as well (the human Swashbuckler is probably the most effective level-2 unit in the game).

>>>chariot is a cheater unit - it can strike like a knight and shoot like a raider. Remember history? Chariots were abandoned because of greater vulnerability and low manoeurability! But knights remained and dominated for a long time! ...

Chariots are level-3, take 2 turns to build in a fully developed city and don't have Willpower. Are charioteers a good unit? Most certainly. Unstoppable? Absolutely not. Compare the charioteer to other level threes (like the elven Druid or the orc Warlord) and I think you'll find that it all evens out. Now look at the tigran Cat Master...it's almost as good as the archon charioteer and since it's only level-2, they can be fielded twice as fast, in greater numbers than the archon equivelent.

Also, the chariot vs. knight analogy is apples and oranges...the knight is more akin to a modern day tank while the chariot is more like an Apache gunship.

>>>Titans - units for weak cheaters! Too strong. No one can beat titans! Chariots and titans should be weakened to maintain better balance.

Why throw around 'cheater' as if building a level-4 unit is a bad thing? I wish the AI would build more of them and I've experienced that most MP games are won mostly with level-2 and level-3 units. By the time your opponent is fielding level-4's and you don't have them...you've probably already lost anyway. On a tactical note, I've beaten 3 Titans with a stack of 7 level-3 manticores. You just have to find the right counter to an opponents offensive. Only when a counter doesn't exist is a unit imbalanced, when it does exist the fun lies in discovering it.

>>>2. Fire breath and all shooting&flying units are cheaters. Let them take landing before using ranged weapons.

A good point for the draconian Heroes...it does feel like cheating when I take a whole stack of non missile-using indies with flight and fire breath, but human opponents are rarely at a disadvantage since most use combined arms in their stacks. I do however disagree that my airships should land to fire their ballistae, thank you very much

>>>3. Undead should be strengthened. If a being is animated with magic, this does not mean, that it is weak. Look, if it is animated, it simply can't die at all! If it has not muscle power it works like a machine with above human power... Then, undead have no flying nor strong shooting warriors.

I agree wholeheartedly that the undead (as a race) are probably the most underpowered group. I was hoping that a patch would address this, but since AOW:SM is coming out instead, let's hope the devs fix this weakness. At this time, when I see undead units in AoW2 I breathe a sigh of relief instead of being properly fearful.

BTW: Even though the undead royally suck as they are now they are STILL more effective than the poor frostlings where a single strategy of 'burn them all' works far too well. Draconians and tigrans are obviously too advantaged against the frostlings since they have access to fire-using troops early, but worse are the archons where Holy Strike also causes fire damage. This makes the archon race a terrible foe against the frostlings who have a universal weakness to fire (why exactly is this? They're not made out of snow, or straw, or gasoline :P...) even if the wizard doesn't practice fire magic (and who does?).

5. Halflings are weak. Defence of lepricons should be not less than 20. Lepricons vs. titans is a very short fight...

Ummm..ok. I agree that the halflings are one of the weaker military races (as they should be), but the leprechaun is fine and considered by me at least to be one of the very best level-4 units in the game. If I have halflings available, I will often migrate all but one or two unit-producing cities into halflings just for the gold boost. And unless you have an uber-stack (or three) of fliers or wallclimbers how exactly do you take a city defended with even one leprechaun and a stack or two of slingers? Halflings need some dev-love, but I think they should concentrate on the Sheriff, the Eagle Rider and maybe the Pony Rider before they tweak the already incredibly tough Leprechaun.

Unless it's a city siege or something similar, why would a stack of Leprechauns even TRY to go against a stack of Titans? Sounds kind of like trying to pit elite Spec Ops against entrenched infantry...wrong countermeasures.

>>>6. Incarnates are somehow weak because they have lost some immunities and lowered in statistics...

I don't know what's been lost or lowered, but Incarnates are still INCREDIBLY useful, especially in MP. The "possess" ability is great and seems pretty well balanced overall, but the "dominate" ability (of the Sphinx, for instance) seems a bit overpowered. Try using a Sphinx or two against that stack of 'cheating' charioteers...instant reinforcements.

7. "Parry" - this was a good skill in AoW 1... I like knights from AoW 1. "Fearless"... Were are they hiding? May be there will be more combat skills?

I agree...maybe we'll see more of what AoW2 lost from AoW1 in AoW:SM. Here's hoping *crosses fingers*

>>>8. How about boat-strategy?

DEFINITELY!!!

>>>9. All maps for original AoW2 should be compatible with AoWSM. Gamers have made a lot of maps and compatibility will encourage them first to upgrade their old maps to new standarts and then (after this practice) to create new great scenarios. Otherwise, forced to begin from zero, they will be discouraged somehow, and at first we will see lots of poor scenarios, which will not be a good promotional action.

I don't know if non-compatability would discourage purchase of the game, but actually having compatability with existing maps would almost certainly encourage it

Anyway, it's good to see that the community still supports (and provides feedback) on a relatively older title. Even more encouraging is that the development team seems to actually listen and implement some of these ideas. I honestly don't mind paying a "new game price" for a "well patched AoW2" in the form of AoW:SM if it lives up to the majority of it's potential

S_S

[This message has been edited by Sirius_Sam (edited 05-07-2003 @ 12:24 PM).]

Does anybody know if they changed the xp reward for units that surrender? It is kinda annoying that everybody surrenders to prevent the other side from getting experience points. I think surrenderring should still provide some experience to the winning side.

Also will there something be done about the flying units vs ground units?

I mean if 8 knigts enter a city which is guarded by 2 flyers, who refuse to attack, shouldn't the city, which is on the ground, not in the sky, be under knigts' control?

Seems like many forum suggestions is implemented in AOWSM. So I have strike out those wishes granted.

It would nice, if devs whould tell, which issues in the list above has already been addressed.