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Topic Subject: In case you missed it, Josh's comment on the editor
posted 04-26-02 01:22 AM EDT (US)   
These were fingers questions not mine. Also, I know it should be Josh's comments, we only have one Josh, can't edit the title though.
Subject typo corrected. /Nojd


1. Is there a third option for each structure, making it unavailable? (e.g. no wizard tower may be built, max upgrades: barracks, warhall, temple, wooden walls.)

2. Is it possible to cap the population? (e.g. a town such as Hobbiton in the Shire stays one-hex)

3. Is it possible to place limits on the pop size, max upgrade levels of cities founded by the player with pioneers, and their max number? (e.g. five new settlements allowed for the halfling player, see above)

4. (sort of related) Great how any unit can now pick up items, but the teleporting between heroes and wizards is taking things too far, imo. For many of us who like story-driven maps, ‘questing’ is the sought after effect. Can we turn this off, or better yet, specify artifacts in the editor that can/cannot be ‘ported? That would be neat!

5. (sort of related) Is there a ‘wizards off’ mode? This would -imo- be good for promoting a variety of custom-made scenarios, some following the old-style leaderless games. In this case I would suggest having an option to reinstate hero spellcasting abilities on the global map.

~Fingers~


[This message has been edited by Fingers (edited 04-25-2002 @ 05:22 PM).]

Author Replies:


Josh AoW
Triumph Studios posted 04-25-02 05:40 PM EDT (US) 1 / 2
------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------
5 is a definite no.
4 is also likely to be a no. However, it is possible to create events that only trigger for a Hero/Wizard, so creative mapmakers should be able to make a map like you describe.

1, 2, and 3 are possibilities... It is currently unknown whether any of those options will be in the initial release in some form. Any/all could certainly be added in a patch if there is not time to implement them before release.


------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------
Josh Farley
Programmer
Triumph Studios

I am encouraged that they are listening to us about the editor capabilities. If we don't get it in the first release we have a reasonable chance for the patch. I am sure they will do what they can given the constraints they have. Damn, the frogs are happy tonight.

[This message has been edited by Nojd (edited 04-26-2002 @ 05:23 AM).]

Replies:
posted 04-26-02 02:59 AM EDT (US)     1 / 24  
posted 04-26-02 03:05 AM EDT (US)     2 / 24  
Very good!

ThEJeRk

My Hotmailaccount sometimes fills up. Please try this adress if that happens: aow2mail@yahoo.se

posted 04-26-02 06:55 AM EDT (US)     3 / 24  
About #5: With triggers and impassable hexes, we may still find a way to make a wizardless game, just lock him up somewhere safe underground, and add a trigger that makes you lose the game if you have no cities left.

"I wanna be Sultan instead of the Sultan!" - Grand Vizier Iznoghoud, 2nd and honoured member of the BTOOIC (Buildable Teleporters Off Option in Cities)
Admin of the BTOOIC site and forum.
posted 04-26-02 09:59 AM EDT (US)     4 / 24  
Very good - regarding teleporting items I think a good compromise would be to just be able to do that inside our dominium -

But 1 2 nad 3 are very serious qeuestions too:
I can just imagine on turn 100 an XL map full of fully upgraded cities, and that's quite silly.

One of the problems so far is that all cities tend to just grow and grow with almost nothing that pulls them back (beside abusing the Hurry button and ad suffering from specific spells).

IMO migrating cities should result in a loss of population, also (like in MOM) whae a city is conquered through a battle a few building should be destroyed (I think the longer the battle lasted the more building got destroyed).

posted 04-26-02 11:25 AM EDT (US)     5 / 24  
Actually, in MOM the damage factor to buildings was calculated by how many combat turns (out of 30) that enemy troops were inside the walls of the city. If you never breached the walls, and only attacked over them, you'd never get a building destroyed.

Having said that, the capability to target buildings within the city (I notice, that when a city has a temple complex, you can see the temple in the combat screen) with siege engines would make for very interesting tactics. You should also be able to target a wizard tower, and knock it down a few pegs.

"Rampaging" (the act of moving troops into an enemy town in MOM, and just occupying land within the walls for 30 turns, just to do maximum damage to buildings and population) would also be a good thing to have. If I move my troops into the city, and fight within the city walls, I should be prepared to accept "collateral losses" to buildings and population.

posted 04-26-02 05:23 PM EDT (US)     6 / 24  
posted 04-27-02 04:47 AM EDT (US)     7 / 24  
FYI: Some recent balance tweaks

New Freestrike rules:
-Flyers/non-flyers can't free-strike each other.
-No free strike if the destination is next to the unit

New Item Teleport Cost:
-25 Mana per Item level + 2 Mana * HexDistance

Phase take 2/3 of the moves. (leaves one strike after phase)

We're looking into the other 'hot' issues too.

posted 04-27-02 05:08 AM EDT (US)     8 / 24  
Thanks for the comment, Lennart. Those are very good balance tweaks, I must say...

"I wanna be Sultan instead of the Sultan!" - Grand Vizier Iznoghoud, 2nd and honoured member of the BTOOIC (Buildable Teleporters Off Option in Cities)
Admin of the BTOOIC site and forum.
posted 04-27-02 05:16 AM EDT (US)     9 / 24  
Cool!

ThEJeRk

My Hotmailaccount sometimes fills up. Please try this adress if that happens: aow2mail@yahoo.se

posted 04-27-02 05:17 AM EDT (US)     10 / 24  
Thanks Lennart, that is very good news!

But I don't really understand "No free strike if the destination is next to the unit" ???
Do that mean that a unit is free move when it is next to an enemy unit, as long as it is moving to another hex that is next to that enemy unit?

Kris

posted 04-27-02 07:01 AM EDT (US)     11 / 24  
If that's the case, only one free move to another hex next to that unit should be allowed.

"I wanna be Sultan instead of the Sultan!" - Grand Vizier Iznoghoud, 2nd and honoured member of the BTOOIC (Buildable Teleporters Off Option in Cities)
Admin of the BTOOIC site and forum.
posted 04-27-02 07:10 AM EDT (US)     12 / 24  

Quoted from Lennart:

New Item Teleport Cost:
-25 Mana per Item level + 2 Mana * HexDistance


I think that's reasonable.

But I still don't understand how a swordsman can teleport anything, but maybe that's just me...

posted 04-27-02 03:17 PM EDT (US)     13 / 24  
Magog -

I don't think of it as the swordsman teleporting anything - I think of it as like 'Star Trek', the unit just provides a detailed enough lock on the item for the wizard to do the teleporting. Well that is how I see it anyway.

posted 04-27-02 06:21 PM EDT (US)     14 / 24  
hehe.. Beam it up Scottie...
posted 04-28-02 02:01 AM EDT (US)     15 / 24  
SWEET! I am very happy about the item teleport cost. I mean, if you're 200 hexes away, it really should be expensive to get the item, so you may consider sending a hero. I only hope the AI is able to deal with this rule effectively (the worst thing about last-minute tweaks is that the AI tends to suffer... but hey, the AI in beta already looks better than HOMM4's AI).

This should quiet a lot of complaints about item teleporting.

posted 04-28-02 06:05 PM EDT (US)     16 / 24  
I just realized, the new teleport cost is a complete solution to the problem. Don't want the One Ring teleported? Just give it a level of 255 (assuming item level is stored as a byte), and it costs over 6000 mana to teleport. Simple!

A 32-bit level would be even better, making teleportation of key items impossible, but hey, if you have 6000 mana in a LOtR scenario, you aren't taking it seriously, are you?

-Saber Cherry

PS. I'm happy the devs are being responsive Thanks!

posted 04-29-02 00:18 AM EDT (US)     17 / 24  
Just to make sure, you DO mean the cost is - 25 * (item level) - 2 * (distance in hexes), right?? Otherwise, the wizard would actually gain mana if the item was farther than (item level) * 25/2.
posted 04-29-02 05:17 AM EDT (US)     18 / 24  
Phase is now a well-balanced ability again. Great! See everyone? We actually achieved something if we just complain often enough.

Steel Monkey
posted 04-29-02 10:46 AM EDT (US)     19 / 24  
Forgive the dumb question, but should I assume Lennart's teleport cost is

-25 Mana per Item level + (2 Mana * HexDistance)

as opposed to

(-25 Mana per Item level + 2 Mana) * HexDistance

posted 04-29-02 11:53 AM EDT (US)     20 / 24  
(-25 Mana * Item level) + (-2 Mana * HexDistance)

or

-1 ((25 * Item Lev)+(2 * HexDist))


people are getting the negatives wrong...

posted 04-29-02 07:08 PM EDT (US)     21 / 24  
6000 Mana isn't really that hard to achieve in the demo... But if the teleport cost would be 6000 mana at a level of 255, there are still trigger ways to keep the mana reserves below 6000.

"I wanna be Sultan instead of the Sultan!" - Grand Vizier Iznoghoud, 2nd and honoured member of the BTOOIC (Buildable Teleporters Off Option in Cities)
Admin of the BTOOIC site and forum.
posted 04-30-02 03:04 AM EDT (US)     22 / 24  
From Lennart:

Quote:

No free strike if the destination is next to the unit

Does this apply to only flyers/non-flyers?
If it applys to all tactical situations then if I park some swordsment spaced in front of my crossbowmen, then my opponents knights will be able to ride straight around my swordmen with no worry of freestrike as long as they do not step directly away from the swordsman?

Isn't that scenario a radical move away from the AoW tactics of setting up a shield wall in front of archers or other units in need of protection?

-W-

posted 04-30-02 06:30 AM EDT (US)     23 / 24  

Quote:


Forgive the dumb question, but should I assume Lennart's teleport cost is
-25 Mana per Item level + (2 Mana * HexDistance)

as opposed to

(-25 Mana per Item level + 2 Mana) * HexDistance

YEAH! I should be able to actually earn 25 mana per turn by teleporting items to the same location. I think I deserve it!


Steel Monkey
posted 04-30-02 05:25 PM EDT (US)     24 / 24  
Lol, read the whole post by Lennart, and you'll realize that the '-' is not part of a calculation, it's just a list bullet.

Quoted from Lennart:

New Freestrike rules:
-Flyers/non-flyers can't free-strike each other.
-No free strike if the destination is next to the unit

New Item Teleport Cost:
-25 Mana per Item level + 2 Mana * HexDistance

We have too many sticky posts, and I don't think there's a reason to keep this one sticky.
*unsticking it right now*

[This message has been edited by Nojd (edited 04-30-2002 @ 05:29 PM).]

Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW2 Beta Demo Feedback - Read Only » In case you missed it, Josh's comment on the editor
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