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Topic Subject: Questions on the Glutton and the Phoenix
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posted 04-09-02 02:39 PM EDT (US)   

Quoted from Lennart SAS:

The Glutton is one of my new favorites. It’s a giant slug with a vast appetite and a bad temper. If it gets lucky, it can swallow an enemy whole. This doesn’t kill the unlucky victim outright, however, and he can be freed upon defeating the Glutton

When the unit is swallowed will he take acid damage per turn until freed or does he remain unharmed?
(I would like to see the acid damage personally)

Quoted from Lennart SAS:

Another new unit is the Phoenix, which will respawn when killed, either after 3 combat rounds or when your side is victorious.

This sounds very powerful,is there balancing factor that will prevent a player building an undying stack of Phoenixes?

Crash

Yeah..I know they are crappy questions but maybe others will have better and post them here.

[This message has been edited by Sir Crashalot (edited 04-09-2002 @ 02:40 PM).]

Replies:
posted 04-09-02 04:00 PM EDT (US)     1 / 57  
About the glutton...I'd like to see damage while the target is consumed as well...or maybe just have the damage occur up front, and if you don't rescue the unit before the end of a battle, it gets eaten.

And the phoenix...well...I imagine it is exorbitantly expensive to maintain, and there probably will be a way of permanently destroying it. Otherwise...you're right...and we're looking at the new Air Galley.

-revalos

posted 04-09-02 04:02 PM EDT (US)     2 / 57  
You have to defeat the enemy with phoenix within 3 combat turns, then you won't notice a thing. How strong this respawn ability is depends on the usual duration of a battle.

"I wanna be Sultan instead of the Sultan!" - Grand Vizier Iznoghoud, 2nd and honoured member of the BTOOIC (Buildable Teleporters Off Option in Cities)
Admin of the BTOOIC site and forum.
posted 04-09-02 04:22 PM EDT (US)     3 / 57  
If you have a fast unit in your stack you can prolong the combat by just staying out of the range of the enemy which will allow your phoenix to resurrect and resume combat.If you have more than one phoenix then this could be turned into an AI beating trick.(and could also be annoying in multiplayer)

Crash

Dont get me wrong, I like the Phoenix

posted 04-09-02 04:34 PM EDT (US)     4 / 57  
Maybe the game should allow only one Phoenix. In mythological stories, there is only one Phoenix in the entire world.

"There are the malcontents, and do not underestimate them, for they are legion!"--Julius Caesar
"King of kings, ruling over kings"--motto of the last dynasty of the Eastern Roman Empire
posted 04-09-02 04:40 PM EDT (US)     5 / 57  
Wasn't there also only one minotaur, one devil and one goblin?

"I have curly pubic hair. If I don't gel it down, it puffs up into a miniature afro and looks rediculous." -Kman
posted 04-09-02 04:44 PM EDT (US)     6 / 57  
Was the "Glutton" the big, Jabba-the-Hutt wannabe unit?
posted 04-09-02 04:50 PM EDT (US)     7 / 57  
You got it Draco!
Now come claim your prize.... *hands draco a muffin*
posted 04-09-02 04:51 PM EDT (US)     8 / 57  
Yes, there was one minotaur in the myth, but the Cretans (sp?) loved and worshiped bulls to the point of insanity so it may not be much of a surprise that there was another one. There are many devils from many societies but they are all truly one, so I guess there is only one. I thought there were many goblins, but I'm not an expert on the subject. Maybe there should be more Phoenixes. The Chinese had a male and female Phoenix and I think the Japanese had a few, too. I think the Russians had a Phoenix-like creature called the Firebird. I wonder why the developers never made an Oriental race? Like with Japanese Kappas and ogres and Water Spirits?

"There are the malcontents, and do not underestimate them, for they are legion!"--Julius Caesar
"King of kings, ruling over kings"--motto of the last dynasty of the Eastern Roman Empire

[This message has been edited by Photios (edited 04-09-2002 @ 04:53 PM).]

posted 04-09-02 06:28 PM EDT (US)     9 / 57  
I like the idea of the Glutton and Phoenix. It really deepens strategy IMO. More strategical choices to make:

"should I attack these Orc Warlords or the Glutton to free my swallowed Cavaliers to later...etc."

"Should I take more risks in attacking the enemy because 3 turns from now the Phoenix will resurrect...etc."

I believe the developers will balance the phoenix well. Powerfull as it may be. With all the AOW-experience in the back of their heads... Oh.. and Aow wasn't that badly balanced (Although a single (golden) Air Galley could wipe out a whole AI Goblin empire, though...).

Phoenix picture

Swolte

btw nice sig. Photios ()



Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 04-09-02 06:45 PM EDT (US)     10 / 57  
If the swallowed unit takes damage as it is being digested then youll have more incentive to rescue it.

Crash

posted 04-09-02 09:07 PM EDT (US)     11 / 57  
Here's some info on how it works right now (subject to change):

Swallow: The unit comes out with 1HP if freed. If the Glutton eats another unit, or the combat ends, the unit is digested, and is permanently killed.

Resurgance: The Phoenix returns with 25% HP. If the Phoenix's corpse is destroyed, it cannot return from the dead.


Josh Farley
Programmer
Triumph Studios
posted 04-09-02 09:33 PM EDT (US)     12 / 57  
Is it possible to give heroes the ability "reasurgance"?

"I have curly pubic hair. If I don't gel it down, it puffs up into a miniature afro and looks rediculous." -Kman
posted 04-09-02 10:37 PM EDT (US)     13 / 57  
No comment.

Josh Farley
Programmer
Triumph Studios
posted 04-09-02 10:41 PM EDT (US)     14 / 57  
Joshua? Does that mean that Lord Devon(insert trumpet noises and swooning nymph noises here) will not get the ability to reanimate himself over and over again?

And are there going to be renameable units and spells?


"I have curly pubic hair. If I don't gel it down, it puffs up into a miniature afro and looks rediculous." -Kman
posted 04-09-02 10:57 PM EDT (US)     15 / 57  
Cool, it's great to hear some more info on the units Josh.
posted 04-09-02 11:07 PM EDT (US)     16 / 57  

Quoted from Photios:

Yes, there was one minotaur in the myth, but the Cretans (sp?)


The Minoans, but they did live on Crete. I think the Minotaur was suppose to be a monster made from the union of one of the king's daughters and a bull. It lived in a labyrinth under the capital, Knossos(?). creepy.

But I still don't like how the Glutton looks like Jabba...lol, it's pretty funny though, it either shows you guys at Triumph have a sense of humour, or lack enough creativity to do little else than cheap cop-offs


"Count no man happy until he is dead"
-Solon
posted 04-10-02 00:01 AM EDT (US)     17 / 57  
Well, when he dies, the Glutton does say, "eeba joo gabba, SO-LO"...

and wait until you see the summonable magic talking donkey, "Har-Har Stinks"...


Josh Farley
Programmer
Triumph Studios

[This message has been edited by Josh AoW (edited 04-10-2002 @ 00:01 AM).]

posted 04-10-02 00:13 AM EDT (US)     18 / 57  

"Count no man happy until he is dead"
-Solon
posted 04-10-02 02:53 AM EDT (US)     19 / 57  

Can't wait to have my gluttons swallow some pathetic halfling slingers. Hehe.

posted 04-10-02 04:37 AM EDT (US)     20 / 57  
I'm a bit worried now, the orc glutton is Lennarts favourite unit? In that case, MY favourite unit is the dire penguin.
What are those designers up to?
And what about the previous statement made by the devs, that the normal building tiers for each race would consist only of units of that race?


Steel Monkey
posted 04-10-02 05:25 AM EDT (US)     21 / 57  
The devs have never stated, that it would not be possible at all to build units in cities, that was not of that city's race (but others have put those words in their mouths later), but just that most of the "not of the race units" would be summoned not build, (the key word is "most" meaning not all) My guess is that most races will be able to build one or two "alien" units.

Kris

posted 04-10-02 07:09 AM EDT (US)     22 / 57  
Haha! just wait till you see them Gluttons swallow an Earth Elemental! or... a leprechaun! or... a cookie! yeah! a cookie! WHOLE! in one go! can you believe it?

yeah well...

And the best way with the Phoenixes is to do something with their bodies while they're down... heh heh heh...
(somehow this seems... )


KOYAANISQATSI (From The Hopi Language)
1. Crazy Life. 2. Life In Turmoil.
3. Life Disintegrating. 4. Life Out Of Balance.
5. A State Of Life That Calls For Another Way Of Living.
6. Greatest Movie Ever Made.
posted 04-10-02 07:17 AM EDT (US)     23 / 57  
I think Zeus disguised himself as a bull and seduced a princess or something like that and she produced the minatour. I haven't read up on mythology in ages, though.

"There are the malcontents, and do not underestimate them, for they are legion!"--Julius Caesar
"King of kings, ruling over kings"--motto of the last dynasty of the Eastern Roman Empire
posted 04-10-02 07:36 AM EDT (US)     24 / 57  
On Crete the king's wife insulted a god who got cupid, I think, to make her fall in love with a bull. The queen got this architecht to build her a bull suit, costume, whatever and she and the bull and had the minatour.

[This message has been edited by White Rider2 (edited 04-10-2002 @ 07:37 AM).]

posted 04-10-02 07:39 AM EDT (US)     25 / 57  
I hope the Phoenix is weak against water magic and hope thats its a water attack that can destroy it(amongst other things).

If a hero is devoured by the Glutton and dies,can you still retrieve his *undigestable* items ?

How about putting a time limit on the swallowed units mortality so it has three turns to be rescued or else it would die from digestion or suffocation.Though if another unit is eaten in this time then the first unit will die immediatelyI just feel that it would add a certain feel of urgency to the situation.

Now Ill try to guess some stats.

Phoenix:
Special : Resurgance
Fire immune
Fire strike
Flying
Weak against water (please)

Huge munchy slug type thingie:
Special : Swallow
Wall crushing ?
physical protect ? or/and huge hit point value
weak against salt

Crash

*looks up at the topic heading trying to find the word `Minotaur` *

[This message has been edited by Sir Crashalot (edited 04-10-2002 @ 03:05 PM).]

posted 04-10-02 07:44 AM EDT (US)     26 / 57  
Now, I like it when fantasy has mythological guidlines, so that they are not mixed and destroyd like in D&D and HOMM
and that there are not too much stupid selfinvented creatures like in D&D (Landsharks, ten different Lizardmen...)
But don`t you think that you are a bit overreacting about this theme?
Ork are not mythological, so should we bann them?
Most of you are christs, so why not, ban all mythological creatures, and take only Angels, witchs, and Devils.
I would also like only one Phönix( ahem Pheonix)
but forget that about only one Minotaur.
posted 04-10-02 07:50 AM EDT (US)     27 / 57  
What are you talking about?
Banning creatures ? Religion?

What has this to do with this topic ?
I think youve been eating too many of those *funny* doughnuts at your little party mate.

Now lets please keep this thread on topic.If anything here stirrs up a non related discussion then please take it to the community forum.

Crash

posted 04-10-02 07:59 AM EDT (US)     28 / 57  
Andalukus, the following thread goes more into the idea of having unique (e.g. 1 Phoenix) units.
I thought you might be interested:
http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=10,562,60,60

(This also gives me a chance to bring it under attention again, for I still think it's great...)

posted 04-10-02 08:47 AM EDT (US)     29 / 57  
About the minotaur.... here's the (short) story :

Quote:

King Minos had angered the Greek God Poseidon by not sacrificing a great white bull that had been sent to him. Poseidon decided that he would punish King Minos by making his wife Pasiphae fall in love with the bull. Pasiphae hid herself within a hollow wooden cow statue and the bull found her attractive, the result of their 'union' unfortunately was their son the Minotaur a fierce half bull, half man like creature. The Minotaur was kept inside a huge labyrinth built by the chief architect at Knossos, Daedalus.

The whole legend about the minotaur can be found here.

posted 04-10-02 01:49 PM EDT (US)     30 / 57  
Witches and Devils are far older than any of the monoethic religions. So in effect all creatures are mythological.

I like Witches, would have been a cool unit in AOW.

Dragons imo is the most beliavable "real" unit. I believe they existed in real life. Although we call them Dinosaurs .

BM

posted 04-10-02 03:04 PM EDT (US)     31 / 57  
Well, I suppose you could call dinosaurs real would dragons.....
But dinosaurs couldn't fly or breath fire, and most had an intelligence that would make chicken look like a genius... not exactly very dragon like....

Kris

posted 04-10-02 03:26 PM EDT (US)     32 / 57  
Sure but the early men didn't know that , if you see something that huge and live in a cave then there's a chance you believe they are mighty .

And the breath could be traced to the sulphur smells etc.

At least it's the closest "real" mythological creature I can think off.

Otoh as late as the 17th century there were people who seriously believed there were Trolls and Elfs living in the woods. At least here. Elven could probably be explained away with people living in the forests and looking generally weird .

As for Witchcraft. I was took part in a Witch gathering once, It's really ancient traditions(tens of thousands of years in fact), although the practice has of course been developed. The male variant is in fact called Magician or Shaman, Witch is just a female variant of it. In Russia in folk lore being Magician is taken seriously. They have really high status.

I love paganism and folk lore. It's thousands times more interesting than these modern "religions".

BM

posted 04-10-02 03:35 PM EDT (US)     33 / 57  
Man NEVER lived next to the dino (unlike many cartoons suggest)!!!!

Finding dino-remnants is another story but that is another thread and site...

To get on topic: I think the Glutton can swallow fairies with his giant tongue!

Swolte



Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 04-10-02 04:08 PM EDT (US)     34 / 57  
Is it possible for a Glutton to swallow another Glutton?

Crash

*Makes plans to create an arena and allow seven stacks of Gluttons to fight it out*

[This message has been edited by Sir Crashalot (edited 04-10-2002 @ 04:08 PM).]

posted 04-10-02 04:09 PM EDT (US)     35 / 57  
Not man but pre-man.

Why else is the Dragon one of the most universal mythological creatures in the Northern Hemisphere? It's precent in basically all folk-lore around the globe. In various shapes and sizes but there it is. It's like the

BM

posted 04-10-02 04:16 PM EDT (US)     36 / 57  
The only types of mammal that existed in the time of dinosaurs were small rodents to my knowledge.
The Dragon myth probably was the result of fossilised bone findings.

Crash

Now lets keep to the topic please

posted 04-10-02 04:26 PM EDT (US)     37 / 57  
But if you watched BBC:s series on Dinosaurs you learn that there were a massive amount of variants. Nothing says some stray flying variants didn't live on for a bit. It's not impossible that some of them still lived 40-50 million years ago(after all they still find species believed to have been extinct). Although I admit that a couple of rotting corpses could have survived longer in colder areas, thus giving nutrition to these legend.

In any case it's a very facinating legend and there's a great strength in folk-lore, folk-tales, they have survived eons without the use of written language.

Btw. AOW2 needs a Minstrel or Bards hero .

BM

posted 04-10-02 06:13 PM EDT (US)     38 / 57  
All dinosaurs and flying lizards (the flying lizards was not dinosaurs) was wiped out in a major catastrophic event (properly a major meteor strike) for about 65 million years ago. Not a single dinosaur fossil from a later period has ever been found!
The first man-like primates started to walk on 2 legs for less than 5 million years.
There also was no ice ages or polar ice in the time of the dinosaurs, so there is no way that frozen remains could have been found by man.
This leaves fossilized bones as the only way that dinosaurs could have started the legends about dragons.

Kris

posted 04-10-02 06:37 PM EDT (US)     39 / 57  
Still it's always fun to suppose that some survived, hence the rash of B movies made in the 70s...

And once in a long while some fisherman off the coast of Madagascar pulls in a fish that was thought to be long dead and fossilized... and one wonders... hrrrm... what about the Loch Ness Monster? Maybe that's not just a good campfire story!?

Just how long does it take to make a fossil?

--Ray

posted 04-10-02 06:43 PM EDT (US)     40 / 57  
I only know that it takes VERY long compared to our measly little lifespans. And I think the fossil also has to get quite some pressure from the ground above, so it must also be quite deep.

So if I understand the Phoenix's ability correctly, if it is killed, it lies on the ground for 3 turns, then revives with 25% health. And I suppose you can still hit the phoenix while it's semi-dead to finish it off completely? How does that work?


"I wanna be Sultan instead of the Sultan!" - Grand Vizier Iznoghoud, 2nd and honoured member of the BTOOIC (Buildable Teleporters Off Option in Cities)
Admin of the BTOOIC site and forum.
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