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Topic Subject: Orc Warlords
posted 12-18-01 01:14 AM EDT (US)   
More to the point why do these thing kick my ass so bad?

I'm on the third phase of my first campaign and am trying to advance from Lyos (sp? the city on the island). Things seem to be going well for me- I've got a 7th level hero, a 4th level hero, 2 centaurs and 4 unicorns in one stack and 4 unicorns, 1 eagle rider and 3 centaurs in another stack. I attack 4 orc warlords and a bunch of other assorted orc units (8) in another stack.

Bad decision. The orc warlords creamed me. I never fought the assorted stuff. The warlord surprised me with the round attack which I'd never seen before but the damage was none too great. NP, I figure I've got 16 units around to kill off 4 and then heal with the unicorns and mop up.

Here goes: all my heros and centaurs archery the orc warlords. They do some damage but don't even manage to kill anything. I dividied my fire about evenly hoping to wound the warlords enought to make them die under unicorn assault but the results were so poor I realzied I was in trouble. Now the 6 unicorns and 1 eagle rider go to work- or should I say get worked over. I'm doing very little damage and getting whacked in the counter attacks. By the end of the round I'm down 3 unicorns and 1 eagle rider and none of the orc warlords are dead. Beat up- yes but with their round attacks I'm pretty much SOL right now since they'll kill most of my melee units.

What am I missing here, I just don't seem to be killing the bozos and with the way the AI deploys I'm not gonna get many changes to isolate and eliminate them- this 16 on 11 shot is the best thing I've seen. The Warlords look to be better than anything my Elves, Halflings and Dwarves can bring to bear at lvl3- am I reduced to attrition or do i need lvl 4 units to deal with these things?

Replies:
posted 12-18-01 02:07 AM EDT (US)     1 / 15  
Well they are pretty strong, but of course they can be beaten with the units you mentioned....(you might want to look up some of the discussion on th archer deployment in "TC tricks part1"-tread.

Basically try using these tactics/principles:
- Concentrate fire on ONE target, until its killed or can be killed in melee for sure (giants are some of the units that can finish off a warlord with one blow if its down to 4/5 health and would survive the counterblow if they are unlucky)

- Dont waste ranged attack - using units first that might be useless when the target gets killed.

- After ranged attacks, use expendable unit to slow the remaining warlords down without attacking. If you attack without killing them you make them stronger through medals gained. How slow them down? Circle around and move to an adjacent hex behind or aside from the warlord. This way you dont block the firing line next turn. If you use just one unit, it might be ignored and the warlord advances to worthier targets but the swordmen e.g. gets a free hit! With 2 melee units adjacent, chances are the warlord roundattacks them.
But all your ranged attackers and heavy units are spared and get another round of fire.

- Either you put the most expendable archer into the front line to get killed eventually first or you are experienced enough to calculate that your centaurs/heroes can endure some roundattack and put them front to protect lesser archers. A stone skinned/silvermedalled centaur should be able to survive 2 roundattacks pretty sure and most likely even 3.

SO - slow them down, whittle them down, use the most expendable units, but dont go into infighting with them just on the luck factor!

If you use this tactics, have your swordmen at the sides somewhat or you might be forced to block the shooting lines.

posted 12-18-01 09:31 AM EDT (US)     2 / 15  
I agree with waterfly, don't attack a warlord if you can use ranged units. But you have to concentrate everything on one warlord until he is dead. Splitting your attack just gives them more round attacks to use against you. A unicorn next to a warlord should be able to survive a round attack and with healing it would take at least 3 round attacks to kill one. This means you can freeze the warlords in place for at least 3 turns. In that time your range units should be able to do some damage while your lesser troops deal with the other orc units.
posted 12-18-01 10:23 AM EDT (US)     3 / 15  
I find giants to be good warlord-killers. Occasionally, they can kill a warlord 1-1, and with ranged units and a few giants, a (small) stack of warlords can be killed easily.
posted 12-18-01 10:58 AM EDT (US)     4 / 15  
Waterfly's advice was excellent. There's one point that bears restating ... use ranged attacks. Orc Warlords are some of the deadliest hand-to-hand fighters in the entire game. Do not accept their invitation to hand-to-hand combat unless they are already so injured that you can kill them in one strike. Use your centaurs, perhaps reinforced with a few ballistas (if possible), and wear down the Warlords from a distance. Concentrate your firepower on one Warlord until he dies, then start shooting the next....

Later in the game, you will find a number of ways to kill Warlords without any effort. For example, one Gold Dragon can kill an infinite number of Warlords with no risk. Unless the AI has cast Enchant Weapon on them, Warlords are also helpless against an Air Elemental. However, many of these options aren't available to you in your current scenario, so just use lots and lots of ranged attackers.

posted 12-18-01 11:24 AM EDT (US)     5 / 15  
Warlords are hard to stop once they get going but not impossible to defeat just as the others have said. To me, the best defence against them is to take out the Orcs as fast as possible, before they have had time to construct critters like warlords or dragons. If you haven't advanced from the central city and are already facing stacks with four warlords you are probably in a lot of trouble

[This message has been edited by Fisenflycht (edited 12-18-2001 @ 11:40 AM).]

posted 12-18-01 11:50 AM EDT (US)     6 / 15  
One more thing:
Resistance is lower than defense for warlords (5 instead of 6) and will rarely get boosted though medals or spells.
Be sure to use your units with magic bolts on them. Put them in a secure position but let them take part in the shooting.
In warlocks rules units like wizards/priestesses with mark4 do a pretty good job on them.
posted 12-18-01 05:00 PM EDT (US)     7 / 15  
Waterfly, It surprise me that an experienced player like you are not aware of that it is defense and not resistance that protect a unit against magic bolts.
Defense will protect a unit against ALL attacks and spells that do damage (expect the spell turn undead), resistance will only protect against "other effects" like curse, poison, frozen, stunned, entangled ect.

Kris

posted 12-19-01 01:38 AM EDT (US)     8 / 15  
Wow, Thanks for helping me out on this one

Are you really sure about this? Seems so illogical....

The good success of magic attcks on warlords are explained by the higher attack (7) then....
You never know if you know it all

posted 12-19-01 03:48 PM EDT (US)     9 / 15  
Ok, I understand that defense operates against all touch attacks and ranged fire. But I thought that certain spells (e.g. vaporize) acted against the resistance number. Is this wrong?
posted 12-19-01 06:00 PM EDT (US)     10 / 15  
Well, I had never got around to test vaporize, I just assumed it worked like all the other spells that do damage...
But no, I just tested it and it and target resistance and not defense!!
So there is 4 combat spells that will target resistance directly: vaporize, entangle, slow and turn undead.

Kris

posted 12-20-01 00:59 AM EDT (US)     11 / 15  
If you're really, really stuck, and have units with a long-ranged attack (12 hex range, like giants, catapults, ballista, doom gaze), and you have a lot of time on your hands, you can get in one shot at the warlord with your long-ranged attack and then retreat b/f the warlord can reach you. This method of attacking, firing once, retreating will eventually kill all the warlords, but it may take quite awhile.
posted 06-04-04 01:42 PM EDT (US)     12 / 15  
Draco's strategy is pretty good, but I use it generally with centaurs. They are so fast, the warlords never catch them! Cavaliers have a chance of taking out a warlord with melee. Storm priests can stun them, too.

[This message has been edited by xie (edited 06-04-2004 @ 01:44 PM).]

posted 06-04-04 01:58 PM EDT (US)     13 / 15  
Hmm... that is an interesting idea for any combat. Get two hasted centaur and put one within bowshot distance of an enemy, and another a few squares behind him. Lure the enemy as bait with the first and retreat back to behind the other centaur who should just have the enemy unit in range. He fires and then you repeat the process all across the map... I'll try that

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Feyd Rautha
"It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion
It is by the beans of Java, that my thoughts acquire speed;
The hands acquire shakes; the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion."
posted 07-11-04 12:32 PM EDT (US)     14 / 15  
This probably work along the same lines as one of my Dragonslaying strategies, which also uses confusion between two ranged units.

[This message has been edited by Dvorak (edited 07-11-2004 @ 12:35 PM).]

posted 09-05-04 05:05 AM EDT (US)     15 / 15  
Do you know parry works for round attack? This means Cavaliers have it quite simple in taking the round attack, which is supposed to give the warlord an extra strike.

While i realise warlords kick cavalier butt, this could be used effectively with some backup.


I have gone to find myself.
If i get back before i return, keep me here.
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