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AoW1 General Discussion & Strategies
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Topic Subject: Razing Teleporters
posted 08-17-01 05:05 AM EDT (US)   
A question for you game statisticians out there, please

Is there a way that you can calculate what forces you will need to raze the different structures (teleporter, tower, shipyard, BG, node etc)?

I wanted to raze a teleporter. I tried with a stack of 3: a hero and two Orc cavalry, but was told that my forces were insufficient. Much later in the game, having put a stack of 4 lvl 1 units: two goblin darters and two dark elf archers there, I was able to raze the same teleporter . I would have expected the stack of 3 more powerful units to be a stronger force than 4 lvl 1 units

Are there standard amounts of force needed to raze these structures; does the amount of force vary during games, or between maps. What are they, and how do I calculate whether a stack can do it or not? Can custom map-makers vary the amount of force needed to raze an item?

May your razing be reliable

posted 08-17-01 06:52 AM EDT (US)     1 / 8  
I've wondered about this myself, but still don't have a clue...

I bet Edi knows about it. Please Edi, enlighten us!

posted 08-17-01 08:43 PM EDT (US)     2 / 8  
I think the amount needed to raze a structure is based on damage facter if you add the damage value (not the attack) of the four lvl 4 units you probably see that their total max damage they can do is more then the orc calvary and the hero, but I could be wrong

People follow the light, blinded by just cause, but what has the light brought them? It has only caused me pain, while the darkness embraced me and kept me deep within its shadows away from my pursuers and made them suffer for their crimes against me

Into darkness, into night, amoungst the shadows we shall fight

posted 08-19-01 06:11 AM EDT (US)     3 / 8  
So does this mean Edi doesn't know, or is he away on holiday or something?

May your teleporters be trampled

posted 08-19-01 12:45 PM EDT (US)     4 / 8  
The finnish oracle knows it all, so I bet if you keep praising his name he'll come...

- All you need is love -

The Wizards of Creation

posted 08-21-01 02:30 AM EDT (US)     5 / 8  
Edi, thanks for the advice on Round Attack. Any chance you could enlighten me on this one please, too

MAy your razing be rudimentary

posted 08-21-01 02:52 AM EDT (US)     6 / 8  
I hear the calling of voices in need of Guidance! As the Oracle of AoW, it is my duty to answer!

Ok, razing a structure, any structure, not just teleporters is a matter of relative strength. Have you ever noticed that sometimes you can blow things up with forces that a moderate gust of wind would knock over senseless while at other times you bring everyone and their dog and it's still no go until you get that lv 20+ hero over to bash things?

The explanation is that the difficulty of razing structures is a combination of an inherent toughness factor of the structure and the strength of the guardian units (which are preset randomly when a game is started on the map). I remember Warlock saying something to the effect that he made razing teleporters (and maybe other structures as well, I don't remember well) harder by raising the structural toughness factor. It was in order to prevent wholesale scorched earth tactics with too small forces.

In general, if the guardian units of the structure are weak, it takes very little to reduce it to rubble, but if they are strong, it can take very tough forces indeed. I remember being able to raze teleporters in one campaign scenario (the river valley on the dark elf route) with a silver or gold medal wyvern rider, but not with an unmedaled one. The guardians were six spirit puppets. On the other hand, one teleporter with a syron took a whole lot more, but I had my leader in that stack, so it was a breeze.

Another indicator of relative difficulty was a death node. I've put a death node guarded by spiders out of commission with a half-stack of fairly weak lv2 and lv3 units, but one with a black dragon had a gold medal gold dragon, a titan and two paladins huffing and puffing to no effect until I got a mid level hero (8 or 9) in there to help. Only at that time did it blow up.

So, in conclusion, if you can't get a teleporter or a node or something else busted with what you consider relatively strong forces, be prepared to face one big bad nasty when you finally put it to torch. I've had to run a fair distance to get away from an enraged syron that came out of a teleporter, and those things are tenacious. Guardians that spawn from a razed structure can never be recruited by those who razed it, no matter the race relations. Others can pick them up, though, so if you've got allies of compatible alignment and/or relations (with the marauders) nearby, they can recruit troops cheaply.


posted 08-21-01 03:03 AM EDT (US)     7 / 8  
Well, although that's not the answer I was hoping for at least it is a definitive answer. Thanks. Can you cast any light on the four lvl 1 units being stronger than a hero and two orc cavalry - perhaps it's based on damage, as Shadows Oasis has suggested
posted 08-21-01 03:49 AM EDT (US)     8 / 8  
Probably. I think it works on much the same mechanism as how the strength of occupation forces in a town are determined versus the size of the city. Two elf swordsmen are not enough to occupy a 1-hex town, nor is a combination of one elf archer and one swordsman. Or a single highman paladin. On the other hand, a pony rider combined with a slinger or archer will have no trouble at all. Two orc swordsmen on the other hand will have the same town firmly under their heel (not quite sure of this).

Damage is certainly a factor, probably the most important one, but if a unit has charge or something else that enhances its combat abilities, it will be more heavily weighted. A single avenger will have a 3-hex orc town relatively pacified, and it has the same damage as an orc swordsman, who will certainly get booted out of a 3-hex elf pr highman city. But when you look at avenger, it has holy champion, holy bolts, holy strike, holy and death immunity, turn undead II and a ton of other abilities, which gives it much more weight in the determination. I've also noticed that a pack of them is effective in razing things, probably for much the same reason.


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