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Topic Subject:My Vision For PBEM - Original Campaign PBEM Tourney
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Unknown250
Member
posted 12-05-08 00:18 AM EDT (US)         
So I have no idea how practical or achievable this is, but I felt like just talking about it since I think it's a cool idea.

I was thinking about how cool it would be if we were to do some sort of PBEM campaign where we went through all the dev-made scenarios that came with the game, in chronological order (so beginning with Blood Isles), with each player assigned to a different race. Each player represents this race throughout the campaign, and joins in on every map that there race is represented on. This means that whoever plays Humans, Elves, Halflings, Goblins, etc, will get a whole bunch of games, while those who play Highmen, Lizards, etc, will play fairly rarely. After each game, races will be given points depending on its outcome - the race with the most points at the end (or whenever everyone calls it quits) would be declared the dominant faction of the Valley of Wonders. Larger maps might be glossed over to save time (i.e. After the Fall, Oracle's Eye) - unless there is a large demand to do those maps. I'll admit that After the Fall would be a lot of fun in this kind of context, but it might just bog things down too much.

Players could even conduct diplomacy outside of games - for example, perhaps the Elves would want to form a consistent alliance with the Halflings, so that they always go into maps with the expectation that they will ally with one another. This could even see factions arise - the Elves, Halflings and Dwarves band together, only to be matched by an alliance of Dark Elves, Orcs and Goblins. However, the treacherous Goblins abandon their masters to join the more promising Human-Azrac coalition. Perhaps rivalries between factions could erupt - the Undead form an alliance with the Dark Elves in game, but refuse to join their faction outside of the game, so the Dark Elves issue a "join or die" ultimatum. Or let it slide. Who knows?

I'm aware that having twelve commited players to do this is unlikely, so we would probably cut out races starting with the least present. Also the scoring system introduced would have to make sure that races are balanced depending on how present they are (perhaps + x points for victory and - x points for defeat? That way races who are in almost every map would have a higher chance at getting more points, but also a higher chance of losing some). Anyway, what do you think? Is it plausible? Or just a pipe dream?
AuthorReplies:
Slipkyes
Member
posted 03-22-12 07:47 AM EDT (US)     271 / 299       
I recieved Pawel´s email about coming back to take control of the humans, and I´m happy to do it if no one has any objections.
Nosferon
Member
posted 10-04-12 04:50 AM EDT (US)     272 / 299       
Too bad that this online campaign fails I was so inspired by the idea.
It's a sad fact that twelve constant players of AoW1 can not be gathered...

#7373DE Human #EFB573 Azrac #4AA58C Lizard #9CC6E7 Frostling
#6BB54A Elf #EFE773 Halfling #D6AD8C Dwarf #EFEFDE High Man
#B563BD Dark Elf #F74242 Orc #BD7352 Goblin #947B73 Undead

~ Honeyvale Falls ~ won by PawelS 2011 | ~ Extremism ~ Fourth week 2012
~ Swolterwood ~ NO winner 2012 |
TravisII
Member
posted 10-04-12 05:23 AM EDT (US)     273 / 299       
Indeed... I would say there are not even 4 constant players here for AoW1. *sigh*

#7373DE for Humans #EFB573 for Azracs #4AA58C for Lizard Men #9CC6E7 for Frostlings |SM|> #E4ED38 #EBEBEB #CC2D29 #CC29D5
#6BB54A for Elves #EFE773 for Halflings #D6AD8C for Dwarves #EFEFDE for High Men |SM|> #DE8EA4 #F09245 #D2BE92 #BDBDE8 #558CDD
#B563BD for Dark Elves #F74242 for Orcs #BD7352 for Goblins #947B73 for The Undead |SM|> #1DDB38 #83795A #2CAAA4 #AC762A
Colors for AoW1 and AoWSM **A Proud Member of the Unofficial Patch Team!** ~2010 AoWSM PBEM Singles Champion~ http://blog.noblemaster.com/
PawelS
Member
posted 10-05-12 05:22 AM EDT (US)     274 / 299       
Yeah, we don't have a chance to continue this as a 12 player competition. I'm thinking about restarting it in a 4-player format, without permanent race choices. What do you think?

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
TravisII
Member
posted 10-05-12 06:51 AM EDT (US)     275 / 299       
Better than nothing for sure. Each player needs to commit to it and failure to keep pace will be lynched!

#7373DE for Humans #EFB573 for Azracs #4AA58C for Lizard Men #9CC6E7 for Frostlings |SM|> #E4ED38 #EBEBEB #CC2D29 #CC29D5
#6BB54A for Elves #EFE773 for Halflings #D6AD8C for Dwarves #EFEFDE for High Men |SM|> #DE8EA4 #F09245 #D2BE92 #BDBDE8 #558CDD
#B563BD for Dark Elves #F74242 for Orcs #BD7352 for Goblins #947B73 for The Undead |SM|> #1DDB38 #83795A #2CAAA4 #AC762A
Colors for AoW1 and AoWSM **A Proud Member of the Unofficial Patch Team!** ~2010 AoWSM PBEM Singles Champion~ http://blog.noblemaster.com/
PawelS
Member
posted 10-05-12 08:11 AM EDT (US)     276 / 299       
OK, so here are my ideas how the competition should work. Suggestions are welcome
  1. There are 4 players in the competition (as most of the maps have 4 players, I think it's the best idea).
  2. Maps with less than 4 players are not played (which means 20 maps total will be played).
  3. Two games are played simultaneously. When a game ends, the next one will be started (the order of playing maps is according to the LIR dates, as in the original campaign).
  4. No leaders on map. Perhaps all players should start with a spellcasting hero?
  5. Allied victory will be enabled.
  6. The order of picking races on the first map is random.
  7. The order of picking races on the second map is the reverse of the order on the first map.
  8. When a game ends, the winner picks the race on the next map first, the second player picks the race next, and so on.
  9. When an alliance wins, the order of picking races for the first two players is random.
  10. In maps with more than 4 players, the rest of races are played by the AI set to Emperor, perhaps we can create a list of AI personalities depending on race?
  11. Scoring: 6-4-2-0 (or 5-5-2-0 if an alliance wins; theoretically it can be also something like 6-4-1-1, 5-5-1-1, 6-3-3-0 or even 6-2-2-2 if multiple players are eliminated at the same time).
  12. The player with the highest score at the end of the competition wins.
  13. All diplomatic actions during a game are allowed, except the situations described below.
  14. It's only allowed to create an alliance of 2 players. When two players are allied, neither of them can make alliance with a third player.
  15. Making alliances with the AI is not allowed. Peace is OK.
  16. We can agree on some additional house rules, like no FMDS, and no hit-and-run attacks.
With only 4 players we will lose some interesting features from the original campaign, like the interracial diplomacy between games... but it's better than nothing, as you said.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

[This message has been edited by PawelS (edited 10-05-2012 @ 08:25 AM).]

TravisII
Member
posted 10-05-12 11:44 AM EDT (US)     277 / 299       
All works for me!

#7373DE for Humans #EFB573 for Azracs #4AA58C for Lizard Men #9CC6E7 for Frostlings |SM|> #E4ED38 #EBEBEB #CC2D29 #CC29D5
#6BB54A for Elves #EFE773 for Halflings #D6AD8C for Dwarves #EFEFDE for High Men |SM|> #DE8EA4 #F09245 #D2BE92 #BDBDE8 #558CDD
#B563BD for Dark Elves #F74242 for Orcs #BD7352 for Goblins #947B73 for The Undead |SM|> #1DDB38 #83795A #2CAAA4 #AC762A
Colors for AoW1 and AoWSM **A Proud Member of the Unofficial Patch Team!** ~2010 AoWSM PBEM Singles Champion~ http://blog.noblemaster.com/
PawelS
Member
posted 10-05-12 03:32 PM EDT (US)     278 / 299       
Cool, now we need 2 more players, anyone interested?

Remember that you will play in 20 games, so it requires a long-term commitment to the competition.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

[This message has been edited by PawelS (edited 10-05-2012 @ 03:33 PM).]

Nosferon
Member
posted 10-06-12 06:15 PM EDT (US)     279 / 299       
Count me in...

#7373DE Human #EFB573 Azrac #4AA58C Lizard #9CC6E7 Frostling
#6BB54A Elf #EFE773 Halfling #D6AD8C Dwarf #EFEFDE High Man
#B563BD Dark Elf #F74242 Orc #BD7352 Goblin #947B73 Undead

~ Honeyvale Falls ~ won by PawelS 2011 | ~ Extremism ~ Fourth week 2012
~ Swolterwood ~ NO winner 2012 |
PawelS
Member
posted 10-06-12 08:55 PM EDT (US)     280 / 299       
One slot left, any takers?

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
chiveicrook
Member
posted 10-26-12 09:07 AM EDT (US)     281 / 299       
I'm in.

chiveicrook+pbem [] gmail.com
PawelS
Member
posted 10-26-12 05:36 PM EDT (US)     282 / 299       
Nice, I guess we can restart the campaign with the rules I proposed then...

I'm thinking about the segregation of duties. I can maintain the score table, and Travis can adapt the maps and set up the games, if he doesn't mind. Any other thoughts on this subject?

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

[This message has been edited by PawelS (edited 10-26-2012 @ 05:37 PM).]

Nosferon
Member
posted 10-26-12 07:01 PM EDT (US)     283 / 299       
I should say Pawel created an interesting system that will work if all
four of us are constant. I don't have any problems with the system, but
one proposition. How about all four of us having one permanent race
in addition to the other races we can pick. I mean, you can chose to
play "your" race or one of the others available on map exept the ones
that are picked by other players as "their".

This will make players more dedicated and will create some heredity in
the maps. Everybody will have knowledge about the events that happened
to his race in previous maps so he can continue a simple plan in multiple
maps and put it in the game log. History will have more succession, order.
The will be no story-related confusion like "Why in the last game Dwarves
were at peace with Orcs, but in this game are at war?". Plus, it allows
some small possibility of diplomation between players if desired.

It's just an idea. Think about it. If you don't like it, we'll just forget it.

#7373DE Human #EFB573 Azrac #4AA58C Lizard #9CC6E7 Frostling
#6BB54A Elf #EFE773 Halfling #D6AD8C Dwarf #EFEFDE High Man
#B563BD Dark Elf #F74242 Orc #BD7352 Goblin #947B73 Undead

~ Honeyvale Falls ~ won by PawelS 2011 | ~ Extremism ~ Fourth week 2012
~ Swolterwood ~ NO winner 2012 |
TravisII
Member
posted 10-26-12 07:22 PM EDT (US)     284 / 299       
I don't mind to adapt the maps and set up the games.

Nosferon might be on to something possible. But how to make it work nicely could be hard.

#7373DE for Humans #EFB573 for Azracs #4AA58C for Lizard Men #9CC6E7 for Frostlings |SM|> #E4ED38 #EBEBEB #CC2D29 #CC29D5
#6BB54A for Elves #EFE773 for Halflings #D6AD8C for Dwarves #EFEFDE for High Men |SM|> #DE8EA4 #F09245 #D2BE92 #BDBDE8 #558CDD
#B563BD for Dark Elves #F74242 for Orcs #BD7352 for Goblins #947B73 for The Undead |SM|> #1DDB38 #83795A #2CAAA4 #AC762A
Colors for AoW1 and AoWSM **A Proud Member of the Unofficial Patch Team!** ~2010 AoWSM PBEM Singles Champion~ http://blog.noblemaster.com/
PawelS
Member
posted 10-26-12 09:47 PM EDT (US)     285 / 299       
Interesting idea, I'll think about the details of implementing it to the rules...

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
PawelS
Member
posted 10-27-12 09:53 PM EDT (US)     286 / 299       
Here is my proposal, which is an expanded version of Nosferon's idea:

Every player represents an organization, like the Keepers, Cult of Storms, or something we make up, like the Hammerheart Alliance that appeared in the original campaign. Everyone picks one main race, and two additional races that belong to the organization. Then, when picking races to play on a map, everyone must pick his main race if it's available, if not then one of the additional races, and if they aren't available either, the player can pick another race that is not someone else's main race.

The main races should be something that appears often on the maps we're going to play, here is a breakdown (I think we should pick main races that have at least 9 appearances):

Humans: 9
Azracs: 6
Lizardmen: 5
Frostlings: 7
Elves: 12
Halflings: 8
Dwarves: 10
Highmen: 3
Dark Elves: 9
Orcs: 15
Goblins: 12
Undead: 6 (not counting Rocky Hollow, where they are AI only)

I'm not sure what the procedure of picking races should look like, perhaps we can just post our preferences here... Personally, I'd like to represent the Keepers, like in the original campaign, and lead the Elves as my main race.

(I also thought about a different system, where we gain "racial affinity points" for races we play, which are used as a preference when picking races later, but I think it would be too complicated.)

Race picks:

PawelS - Elves, Halflings, Dwarves
TravisII - Humans, Highmen, Goblins
Nosferon - Dark Elves, Frostlings, Undead
chiveicrook - Azracs, Orcs, Lizardmen

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

[This message has been edited by PawelS (edited 10-29-2012 @ 08:44 AM).]

TravisII
Member
posted 10-28-12 08:31 PM EDT (US)     287 / 299       
Since 4 of us, then 3 races each. I'd take Humans primary, along with Highmen (makes sense), but not sure which 3rd. Since Highmen have a low amount, maybe something abnormal like Goblins as well. It'd need a spiffy name, but I can't think of anything creative at the moment.

#7373DE for Humans #EFB573 for Azracs #4AA58C for Lizard Men #9CC6E7 for Frostlings |SM|> #E4ED38 #EBEBEB #CC2D29 #CC29D5
#6BB54A for Elves #EFE773 for Halflings #D6AD8C for Dwarves #EFEFDE for High Men |SM|> #DE8EA4 #F09245 #D2BE92 #BDBDE8 #558CDD
#B563BD for Dark Elves #F74242 for Orcs #BD7352 for Goblins #947B73 for The Undead |SM|> #1DDB38 #83795A #2CAAA4 #AC762A
Colors for AoW1 and AoWSM **A Proud Member of the Unofficial Patch Team!** ~2010 AoWSM PBEM Singles Champion~ http://blog.noblemaster.com/
Nosferon
Member
posted 10-29-12 07:22 AM EDT (US)     288 / 299       
I like the way you expand my ideas, Pawel :] If everybody like Pawel's rules,
we can then have our picks and start the first two maps. I'll follow TravisII's
example and pick Dark Elves as my primary race and add Frostlings and
the Undead to form my syndicate. I ran through multiple names and the two
that I'll pick from are "Frozen Nights" and the "Cold Touch".

I want everybody to know that I'm really high on reading creative logs. Since
it's obvious that we can't follow the main storyline, we can at least use Inioch's
fall
and the rise of the bright star as a base for our stories...

#7373DE Human #EFB573 Azrac #4AA58C Lizard #9CC6E7 Frostling
#6BB54A Elf #EFE773 Halfling #D6AD8C Dwarf #EFEFDE High Man
#B563BD Dark Elf #F74242 Orc #BD7352 Goblin #947B73 Undead

~ Honeyvale Falls ~ won by PawelS 2011 | ~ Extremism ~ Fourth week 2012
~ Swolterwood ~ NO winner 2012 |

[This message has been edited by Nosferon (edited 10-29-2012 @ 07:25 AM).]

PawelS
Member
posted 10-29-12 08:06 AM EDT (US)     289 / 299       
Interesting picks, I won't select my additional races for now so chiveicrook has some choice in picking his...

I'm not good at writing creative logs, but I'll try my best

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

[This message has been edited by PawelS (edited 10-29-2012 @ 08:07 AM).]

Nosferon
Member
posted 10-29-12 08:12 AM EDT (US)     290 / 299       
By the way, isn't it good to create a new topic for the "new" campaign when it starts?
I plan on sending e-mails to the partisipants in "After the Fall" just to try move the
old campaign at least 2 turns further...

#7373DE Human #EFB573 Azrac #4AA58C Lizard #9CC6E7 Frostling
#6BB54A Elf #EFE773 Halfling #D6AD8C Dwarf #EFEFDE High Man
#B563BD Dark Elf #F74242 Orc #BD7352 Goblin #947B73 Undead

~ Honeyvale Falls ~ won by PawelS 2011 | ~ Extremism ~ Fourth week 2012
~ Swolterwood ~ NO winner 2012 |
PawelS
Member
posted 10-29-12 08:21 AM EDT (US)     291 / 299       
I will create a new topic, with the scoreboard and rules in the top post.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
chiveicrook
Member
posted 10-29-12 08:22 AM EDT (US)     292 / 299       
Heh, I looked away for a moment and all my favs got snatched :-)

Let's see....
The Fiery Conflagration led by Azracs.
Supported by Orcs and Lizardmen.
Nosferon
Member
posted 10-29-12 08:35 AM EDT (US)     293 / 299       
Don't worry, you will still be able to play with them when your
primary is not present on the map and others have more than one ;]

I have the strange feeling that the Fiery Conflagration is not going
to get along with Frozen Nights/Cold Touch :]

#7373DE Human #EFB573 Azrac #4AA58C Lizard #9CC6E7 Frostling
#6BB54A Elf #EFE773 Halfling #D6AD8C Dwarf #EFEFDE High Man
#B563BD Dark Elf #F74242 Orc #BD7352 Goblin #947B73 Undead

~ Honeyvale Falls ~ won by PawelS 2011 | ~ Extremism ~ Fourth week 2012
~ Swolterwood ~ NO winner 2012 |

[This message has been edited by Nosferon (edited 10-29-2012 @ 08:36 AM).]

PawelS
Member
posted 10-29-12 08:41 AM EDT (US)     294 / 299       
Nice, then I get Halflings and Dwarves - not bad, it's the classic set of races for the Keepers (when you take the "good" path in the campaign).

Azracs don't appear often on the maps, so I was going to suggest changing the main race to Orcs, but I think it's good as it is now, so we have 1 good, 1 evil and 2 neutral main races.

I'm thinking about changing the rules of picking races on maps, to prevent the possibility of someone else taking your race, if it's the only race from your alliance on the map. So it many cases, on 4-player maps, the process of picking races will be automatic. For example, it the first map - Blood Isles, I think it should be the following:

Humans - Travis (main race)
Azracs - chiveicrook (main race)
Dwarves - PawelS (the only race from the alliance)
Goblins - Nosferon (the remaining race)

I'll update the rules and start a new thread in the Competitions section. (Of course the rules will be still open for discussion, so ideas how to improve them are welcome).

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

[This message has been edited by PawelS (edited 10-29-2012 @ 09:09 AM).]

TravisII
Member
posted 10-29-12 05:41 PM EDT (US)     295 / 299       
All sounds good :-)

What is the name of the world in which AoW takes place? I am ashamed I cannot remember it.

#7373DE for Humans #EFB573 for Azracs #4AA58C for Lizard Men #9CC6E7 for Frostlings |SM|> #E4ED38 #EBEBEB #CC2D29 #CC29D5
#6BB54A for Elves #EFE773 for Halflings #D6AD8C for Dwarves #EFEFDE for High Men |SM|> #DE8EA4 #F09245 #D2BE92 #BDBDE8 #558CDD
#B563BD for Dark Elves #F74242 for Orcs #BD7352 for Goblins #947B73 for The Undead |SM|> #1DDB38 #83795A #2CAAA4 #AC762A
Colors for AoW1 and AoWSM **A Proud Member of the Unofficial Patch Team!** ~2010 AoWSM PBEM Singles Champion~ http://blog.noblemaster.com/
PawelS
Member
posted 10-29-12 06:20 PM EDT (US)     296 / 299       
The continent is called "Blessed Continent", how the entire world is called I don't know...

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
TravisII
Member
posted 10-29-12 07:44 PM EDT (US)     297 / 299       
Oh, well then maybe I had nothing to remember!

I will name my alliance "Free Folk of the Blessed Continent" since we come from each racial alignment.

#7373DE for Humans #EFB573 for Azracs #4AA58C for Lizard Men #9CC6E7 for Frostlings |SM|> #E4ED38 #EBEBEB #CC2D29 #CC29D5
#6BB54A for Elves #EFE773 for Halflings #D6AD8C for Dwarves #EFEFDE for High Men |SM|> #DE8EA4 #F09245 #D2BE92 #BDBDE8 #558CDD
#B563BD for Dark Elves #F74242 for Orcs #BD7352 for Goblins #947B73 for The Undead |SM|> #1DDB38 #83795A #2CAAA4 #AC762A
Colors for AoW1 and AoWSM **A Proud Member of the Unofficial Patch Team!** ~2010 AoWSM PBEM Singles Champion~ http://blog.noblemaster.com/
PawelS
Member
posted 10-31-12 07:47 PM EDT (US)     298 / 299       
I created a thread for the new competition here. Please continue the discussion in that thread.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
Deroman
Member
posted 05-21-13 02:48 PM EDT (US)     299 / 299       
Hopefully the second coming will finish what the first one couldn't. Best of luck my friends!

Edit: I wonder if some other bigger games could be redone with same kind of idea...

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Frozen Warrior-/X\(++)/X\-

[This message has been edited by Deroman (edited 05-21-2013 @ 02:54 PM).]

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