You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

AoW1 Play By Email (Turn Logs)
Moderated by Enginerd, Ziggurat Mason

Hop to:    
loginhomeregisterhelprules
Bottom
Topic Subject: My Vision For PBEM - Original Campaign PBEM Tourney
« Previous Page  1 2 3 4 5 6 ··· 10  Next Page »
posted 12-05-08 00:18 AM EDT (US)   
So I have no idea how practical or achievable this is, but I felt like just talking about it since I think it's a cool idea.

I was thinking about how cool it would be if we were to do some sort of PBEM campaign where we went through all the dev-made scenarios that came with the game, in chronological order (so beginning with Blood Isles), with each player assigned to a different race. Each player represents this race throughout the campaign, and joins in on every map that there race is represented on. This means that whoever plays Humans, Elves, Halflings, Goblins, etc, will get a whole bunch of games, while those who play Highmen, Lizards, etc, will play fairly rarely. After each game, races will be given points depending on its outcome - the race with the most points at the end (or whenever everyone calls it quits) would be declared the dominant faction of the Valley of Wonders. Larger maps might be glossed over to save time (i.e. After the Fall, Oracle's Eye) - unless there is a large demand to do those maps. I'll admit that After the Fall would be a lot of fun in this kind of context, but it might just bog things down too much.

Players could even conduct diplomacy outside of games - for example, perhaps the Elves would want to form a consistent alliance with the Halflings, so that they always go into maps with the expectation that they will ally with one another. This could even see factions arise - the Elves, Halflings and Dwarves band together, only to be matched by an alliance of Dark Elves, Orcs and Goblins. However, the treacherous Goblins abandon their masters to join the more promising Human-Azrac coalition. Perhaps rivalries between factions could erupt - the Undead form an alliance with the Dark Elves in game, but refuse to join their faction outside of the game, so the Dark Elves issue a "join or die" ultimatum. Or let it slide. Who knows?

I'm aware that having twelve commited players to do this is unlikely, so we would probably cut out races starting with the least present. Also the scoring system introduced would have to make sure that races are balanced depending on how present they are (perhaps + x points for victory and - x points for defeat? That way races who are in almost every map would have a higher chance at getting more points, but also a higher chance of losing some). Anyway, what do you think? Is it plausible? Or just a pipe dream?
Replies:
posted 03-08-09 04:44 PM EDT (US)     91 / 299  
Yeah... what were those suggestions
posted 03-09-09 07:54 AM EDT (US)     92 / 299  
The fowarded email conversation that eventually ended up to Swolte?

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Frozen Warrior-/X\(++)/X\-
posted 03-09-09 10:58 AM EDT (US)     93 / 299  
Look at the main AoWH page, now it's 3rd from the top.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
posted 03-10-09 11:32 AM EDT (US)     94 / 299  
A very interesting piece of the AoW1 accuarate History that I found (seen before, forgotten, relocated by lucky accident, introduced):
http://aow2.heavengames.com/gameinfo/story/aow1timeline.shtml
and http://aow2.heavengames.com/gameinfo/story/aow1story.shtml
in case you wish to get into your character more deeply, consider reading the page(s) through.

Edit: fixed your link

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Frozen Warrior-/X\(++)/X\-

[This message has been edited by Angel Draco (edited 03-18-2009 @ 03:26 PM).]

posted 03-14-09 10:55 AM EDT (US)     95 / 299  
Are we doing After the Fall or has there been a discussion on that yet?

Token Irish Gamer!
posted 03-14-09 02:55 PM EDT (US)     96 / 299  
I think we should

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
posted 03-14-09 04:04 PM EDT (US)     97 / 299  
Hmm, I'm reading the story somehow and see what scenarios are linked. In every scenario it's possible to play every race of course... except in Igors Folly, where the undead is just left independent. So weird...
posted 03-14-09 05:14 PM EDT (US)     98 / 299  
Lol, a big massive game with diplomacy abound...

After the Fall ftw.

*also the Lizards get another respite - a 4th map with us!*

Token Irish Gamer!

[This message has been edited by CrazySlyHawk (edited 03-14-2009 @ 05:17 PM).]

posted 03-14-09 05:21 PM EDT (US)     99 / 299  
I think we can edit Igor's Folly to make the Undead playable...

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

[This message has been edited by PawelS (edited 03-14-2009 @ 05:27 PM).]

posted 03-15-09 07:03 AM EDT (US)     100 / 299  
That would be good indeed, But don't make 'em too powerful, the story says Igor gets defeated...
posted 03-15-09 11:28 AM EDT (US)     101 / 299  
994 - After the Fall, we could add this one if you guys like, but it will result in prolonging the whole campaign game greatly (it's a large map). Undead will most likely be playable in Igor's Folly, with propably little editing to avoid overpowering. The story is defined by the result of this campaign anyway.

Diplomatic Actions:
Forms Cult of Storms, alliance open to all whom choose to dedicate ridding the Blessed Continent from humanity and endless warfare.

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Frozen Warrior-/X\(++)/X\-
posted 03-15-09 11:54 AM EDT (US)     102 / 299  
I think it won't slow our campaign much if we play the next games simultaneously with After the Fall.

We forgive the Humans all their misdeeds from the past, and we believe that they will mature to live in peace with the other races of the Blessed Continent. The Humans are now officially under protection of the Keepers. They are not a member of our alliance, but we will oppose all who attack them.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
posted 03-15-09 12:52 PM EDT (US)     103 / 299  
I've never played a pbem game with 12 players before.... is that what we'd have with After the Fall? What fun, I'd recommend starting it sooner rather than later, with 11-12 players you'll be lucky to get a two turns a month, I'd also recommend changing the turn order (which is a real pain) so we don't bounce back and forth overseas, anything to make it go faster.

-------------------
Cult of Storms is open

Goblins will have to look into that....

Humans under the protection of the Keepers but not part of their alliance... Silly Humans, they should have thought twice before they did that, it will only bring them trouble... we don't trust the Keepers!
posted 03-15-09 02:52 PM EDT (US)     104 / 299  
Death Whisper:
Blow the horn... it will solve all your problems...
posted 03-15-09 03:08 PM EDT (US)     105 / 299  
Is it possible to change the turn order in AoW1? I remember I tried once, but I couldn't find a way to do it...

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
posted 03-17-09 04:36 PM EDT (US)     106 / 299  
You can... but it's painful.... you have to change the players one at a time in the editor... If you want Orcs first then set Player 1 to Orcs. then you have to make sure you get all the units changed over to the appropriate race as the editor isn't smart enough to do that automatically so you have to click on on the starting structures/units and make sure they are still the correct ones. Then you have to make sure the sphere picks are set up... and so on... it's a major pain.
posted 03-18-09 03:35 PM EDT (US)     107 / 299  
A very interesting piece of the AoW1 accuarate History that I found (seen before, forgotten, relocated by lucky accident, introduced):

AoW1 Timeline (with scenarios marked)

AoW1 Story

in case you wish to get into your character more deeply, consider reading the page(s) through.
You have no idea how long it took me to retype all that and figure out the timeline.

You can also check out a few more stories from the AoW1 history written by Ray Bringham (the game's writer) that only appeared in the Official AoW1 Strategy Guide.

[This message has been edited by Angel Draco (edited 03-18-2009 @ 03:37 PM).]

posted 03-18-09 04:29 PM EDT (US)     108 / 299  
Can the current state of alliances be added to the original post?

The Frostlings are currently accepting gifts and offers to be wooed to an alliance.

It's funny that the first two maps my Frostlings appear in are two maps I just played in PBEM (Icedale and Barondir Bay). Barondir Bay should be interesting--from an alliances perspective--becuase only Neutral races are on that map.

[This message has been edited by Angel Draco (edited 03-18-2009 @ 04:35 PM).]

posted 03-18-09 05:07 PM EDT (US)     109 / 299  
That text in the site is your doing Draco (well, at least retype-doing)? I had no clue. Awesome work lad, it must feel good to have people reading through and admiring that whole story. At least would feel good to me..

Anyways, in case you add the diplomatics into the original post, you should add these too (and if you do, please cut/remove them from this post):

Final Playerlist:
Humans - Slipkyes Slipkyesbass(at)gmail(dot)com
Azracs - Albaron albaron(dot)aow(at)googlemail(dot)com
(incase Unknown returns (within a reasonable time), moves to Highmen)
Lizardmen - CrazySlyHawk emacfallon(at)hotmail(dot)com
Frostlings - Draco francis(dot)cermak(at)dupageco(dot)org
Elves - PawelS pstrz(at)o2(dot)pl
Halflings - Gandalf the White gandalf_the_mapmaker(at)yahoo(dot)co(dot)uk
Dwarves - Froster branneji(at)yahoo(dot)ca
Highmen - [AI or sub]
Dark Elves - Deroman ragederoman(at)luukku(dot)com
Orcs - Thorongil th0r0ngil(at)hotmail(dot)com
Goblins - Enginerd mjschuck(at)fidnet(dot)com
Undead - TuoDrable brechtneyrinck(at)telenet(dot)be

Subtitute List:
Unknown250 unknown(at)unknown(dot)unknown
Alphonze Dusial56(at)yahoo(dot)com

This is "important information" that will be often updated along the Campaign, meaning eighter you or Enginerd should keep it (at least somewhat)updated in the future. Beats the reposting or browsing though.. so, you decide. (I leave it to you to figure out the diplomatics)

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Frozen Warrior-/X\(++)/X\-
posted 03-18-09 05:14 PM EDT (US)     110 / 299  
Diplomatic Actions:
Offers all Human lands in IceDale for Frostlings and reminds how Humans have been embraced to the Keepers protection. Can not yet state anything concerning the Undead or Lizards from which neighter has applied to join the Cult of Storms nor opposing faction.

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Frozen Warrior-/X\(++)/X\-
posted 03-19-09 09:55 AM EDT (US)     111 / 299  
Thanks! We added that timeline stuff when we launced the AoW2H site back in 2001/2002.

Do we want to start a new thread with the current player roster and alliance status?
posted 03-26-09 11:31 AM EDT (US)     112 / 299  
After so long of destroying elvenkind we have seen the truth and realized it was the dark elves who provoked this bloodshed, therefore we join the elves and their keepers in their battle against these hatred-filled, serpent tongued race of "Immortals". We'll put their name to the test. (300 sample :-).

We may not be worthy of joining the keepers but we will fight by their side and offer protection as they offer us their own. As we see the tricky lizardkind has fallen in treaties with the dark elves, we hope the other neutral races will see the light and join the truly good men in battle
posted 06-18-09 02:31 AM EDT (US)     113 / 299  
Hey everyone, sorry for disappearing, but real life happened. I've been working away to try and find a good formula to match the scoring. Basically the idea is that we want it to be fair and even between different sides. Since some races are present on nearly every map and others are barely around, we don't want it working in a way that it's impossible for the more present races to lose.

What I was considering for the points system was one base point and then adding one point in the order that they were eliminated in.

So let's say we had a five player map (like Rocky Hollow). Let's say that as a result of their vendetta, the Dark Elves and Orcs ganged up to beat the Humans first, to make sure the Humans get the least amount of points. While they're doing this, the Undead sweep in and attack both, eliminating the Dark Elves. While the Undead battle the Orcs, the Frostlings slip in and conquer the Undead territory. Pinned between two enemies, the Undead don't last long and the battle-weakened Orcs are no match for the Frostling hordes.


So in this situation, the scores would be:

Humans = 1
Dark Elves = 2
Undead = 3
Orcs = 4
Frostlings = 5

If two or more allied races come in first, the points are evenly distributed between them. So in the above example, if the Dark Elves and Orcs had been successful and defeated the Humans, then the Undead and finally the Frostlings, both DE and Orcs would receive 2.5 points (the 5 pot divided by 2), while the Undead would have come in fourth and received two points, and the Frostlings would have come in third and received 3 points, still coming out on top. Sharing the spoils is the price of alliances.

This results in two advantages that I can see:

1. Battle scales are accurately related into scores. A minor skirmish off in the mountains between Halflings and Goblins would only result in 2 points for the victor, a miniscule gain. However, defeating 7 other races to establish a new nation along a highly fertile river would result in a significant 8 points for the winner

2. Allows for more interesting diplomacy. If the Humans are at open war with the Dark Elves and Orcs outside of the game (using the above example, yet again), they're going to want to negotiate their butts off with the Frostlings and Undead to keep from getting the floor mopped with their armies. Additionally, it leaves the question: Can the Orcs and Dark Elves stay allied? Or would greed cause one of them to try and go for the whole pot? I especially like the division of points between allied players because it helps to prevent the formation of unrealistically large alliances.

I'm trying to think of a good way to balance out the races, though. I'm wondering if perhaps each race should have the number of games played subtracted from their total?
posted 06-18-09 02:36 AM EDT (US)     114 / 299  
For those of you who are interested, I had another formula for scoring worked out. It was 1 base point, divided by the position the player came in, multiplied by the number of players on the map. So in the example used above:

Humans: 1/5*5 = 1
Dark Elves: 1/4*5 = 1.25
Undead: 1/3*5 = 1.66
Orcs: 1/2*5 = 2.5
Frostlings: 1/1*5 = 5

I thought I'd include that for interest's sake. I decided I preferred the system in my above post, because it was simpler and I feel that this one provides perhaps too great of an advantage to the first place player, not to mention almost no distinction between the lesser players. While that might be more realistic (history doesn't really remember second last any more than it remembers last) it might not be more fun. Besides, this one would probably end up with a whole load of decimals.

But if anyone wants to work around with it a bit and see what they can come up with, be my guest.
posted 06-18-09 06:51 AM EDT (US)     115 / 299  
I think the first suggestion does not favour realistic allied victory outcome. If Dark Elves and Orcs are sieging last citadel of Frostlings before their allied victory, wouldn't they resign from the alliance and fight it through, for even the one who becomes the 2nd would receive 4 points instead of 2,5points of allied victory. So the utter destruction of kingdom leads to more spoils than shared world?
The second (newer) suggestions sounds better as the alliance Dark Elves and Orcs would count their scoring by avarage of 2nd position and 1st position, meaning 2.5 + 5 => 7.5 / 2 => 3,75. which is something that both can most likely be pleased with rather than going greed for that 5 point score.

Since you left suddenly and not telling Unknown, I and Pawel took over the campaign and subbed you out from the great game you had assigned as Azracs. Most unfortunately, there seems to be no race that could be assigned to you right now as all the present gamers seem to be active, but in case you have enough patience to wait, I am sure you will get in as sub in the future. In case you wish to take lead and control of the Campaign game designing, organizing and leading, we will give it back to you. That means, though, that you stick around this time

Edit: ..and of course the Highmen are open.

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Frozen Warrior-/X\(++)/X\-

[This message has been edited by Deroman (edited 06-18-2009 @ 06:53 AM).]

posted 06-18-09 05:55 PM EDT (US)     116 / 299  
I'd prefer the first Unknown's scoring system, with Deroman's change (winning alliance gets an average score of the places that they would get separately), and with all scores decreased by 1.

So in the above example:

Humans = 0
Dark Elves = 1
Undead = 2
Orcs = 3
Frostlings = 4

(So every race would get a number of points equal to the number of other races that were eliminated earlier than it.)

If two or more races win as an alliance, they should get an average number of points, in this case (3+4)/2=3.5 points each.

The scaling problem can be solved by dividing the number of points that every race got by the maximum number of points that it could get, to create a "success rate", similar to the one that I proposed earlier, but taking into account the order of elimination and the "size of games" (number of players).

Whichever scoring system is used, I can create and maintain a scoreboard if needed. Lately I learned how to make HTML tables, and that it can be done in this forum

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
posted 06-18-09 11:55 PM EDT (US)     117 / 299  
Deroman and Pawel, I want to thank you both for all the amazing work you've put into this so far. I'd like to play as the Highmen, but I'm not sure how reliable I'll be this summer. If a Highmen map comes up and I'm still around, I'll play, but if someone else comes in who could fill that role, give them precedence.

I actually rather like Pawel's solution. What do others think? I like the success rate but I think it would have to be modified a bit. For example, if we were to leave out After the Fall (Oracle's Eye doesn't even fit with the campaign so I don't see why we'd do that one), then the Highmen just have to win a Medium, 1v1 map (Cold Fusion) and they'd get 100%, coming in first, which doesn't seem fair. So a success rate almost seems to favour the less-played races more. But then again, maybe not.

I also like his solution because the larger the alliance, the greater the penalty (if the Undead had allied with the Orcs and Dark Elves, for example, each would have received 3 points rather than 3.5). I'm not totally sure if it's enough though. To me the idea is just to keep the element of greed in there, and I think the prospect of a solo victory should be tantalizing enough to cause allied players to at least consider going for it.
posted 06-19-09 09:43 AM EDT (US)     118 / 299  
I like Pawel's solution as well. The score being decreased by 1 is a good idea.

Jim Brannen
Email: branneji@yahoo.ca
Skype: jim_brannen
Timezone: -5 GMT (New York Time)
posted 06-19-09 05:19 PM EDT (US)     119 / 299  
Maybe the winner should get an extra point for winning alone to encourage going for solo victories (so the maximum number of points would be equal to the number of players). It would also make games with less players more important, winning an 8-player game shouldn't give 7x more points as winning a 2-player one, with this change it gives 4x more points (8 to 2).

About the Highmen, we can play the extra maps to give them more games to play (they appear in 2 of 3 extra maps, see my post #14 in this thread for information about these maps). If they appear only in 1 or 2 games they shouldn't be rated at all.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
posted 06-29-09 03:48 AM EDT (US)     120 / 299  
Update 29.06.09

Final Playerlist:
Humans - Slipkyes Slipkyesbass(at)gmail(dot)com
Azracs - Albaron albaron(dot)aow(at)googlemail(dot)com
(incase Unknown returns (within a reasonable time), moves to Highmen)
Lizardmen - TravisII xjecht(at)yahoo(dot)com
Frostlings - Draco francis(dot)cermak(at)dupageco(dot)org
Elves - PawelS pstrz(at)o2(dot)pl
Halflings - Gandalf the White gandalf_the_mapmaker(at)yahoo(dot)co(dot)uk
Dwarves - Froster branneji(at)yahoo(dot)ca
Highmen - [AI or sub]
Dark Elves - Deroman ragederoman(at)luukku(dot)com
Orcs - Thorongil th0r0ngil(at)hotmail(dot)com
Goblins - Enginerd mjschuck(at)fidnet(dot)com
Undead - TuoDrable brechtneyrinck(at)telenet(dot)be

Subtitute List:
Unknown250 unknown(at)unknown(dot)unknown
Alphonze Dusial56(at)yahoo(dot)com
CrazySlyHawk emacfallon(at)hotmail(dot)com

Due most unfortunate events, CrazySlyHawk is forced out of the campaign game. Lizardmen are open for anyone/first one willing to sub for them. For previous unfortunate reasons Alphonze left AoWH aswell earlier on, and is forced out of subtitute list. If you doubt that you would be interested by any chance, apply please, even as a subtitute. We need you.


( http://xroads.virginia.edu/~CAP/SAM/sam4.gif )

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Frozen Warrior-/X\(++)/X\-

[This message has been edited by Deroman (edited 06-30-2009 @ 09:06 AM).]

« Previous Page  1 2 3 4 5 6 ··· 10  Next Page »
Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW1 Play By Email (Turn Logs) » My Vision For PBEM - Original Campaign PBEM Tourney
Top
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register
Hop to:    
Age of Wonders 2 Heaven | HeavenGames