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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW2/SM Mod Making » Unit idea ?
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Topic Subject:Unit idea ?
Turbo Beholder
Member
posted 05-09-05 09:38 PM EDT (US)         
Thread for new unit conceptions.

Before unit will be released in Mod, even before play-testing, some questions can be solved (or at least properly raised ) through discussion, just because Mod-maker can miss something that will be obvious to someone (or everione ) else.
Or new idea can be detalised. Or technical questions solved...
Maybe, unit can affect balance in some unpredicted way ?
Maybe, its performance attributes leads to new interesting tactics/strategy or disables old one ?..


And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...

[This message has been edited by Turbo Beholder (edited 11-08-2005 @ 05:49 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Turbo Beholder
Member
posted 05-09-05 10:22 PM EDT (US)     1 / 37       
(I'll start from really horrible unit...)
__
Name: Iceberg Hulk
Race: Frostlings; Type: Siege Machine; Alignment: None; Gender: It
Size: Extra Large
Level: 5 ; Value: 270
Def: 12; Res: 12
Hits: 55
Moves: 20 (15?)
  • Abilities (Initial):
    Sailing, Trail of Darkness
    Cold Immunity, Poison Immunity
    Death Protection
    Block (objectionable, but it's resistance to projectiles)
    Transport 5
    Frost Blowing 1, Frost Bolts 2 1
  • Abilities (Silver):
    Fire Protection (now hull is thick and sound, crew is skilled)
    Transport 6 (still forming and optimizing bulk of ice to full size)
    Marksmanship 1
  • Abilities (Gold):
    Transport 7, Marksmanship 2
  • Description:
    The greater part of Iceberg Hulk constructed by using lots of Frost Cannons modified for creation of one enormous piece of solid ice. Solid and strong state of ice maintained by the same devices.
    It also contains many other, more costly (and as fragile as freezers) structures that supports continuous hull freezing, gives control over its movement and keeps crew in state different from "one lump of ice".
    Iceberg Hulk is very bulky and awkward, drifts slowly amidst shelling pieces of ice, so the term "maneuverability" seems to be inapplicable to its movement style.
    Built-in freezing machines can be used either as short-range weapons identical to Frost Cannon or to spit more compressed stream of chilling air and small ice fragments farther 1.
    Only creature that seems to be really dangerous for this ship is Ice Dragon.
    Continuous activity of freezers leads to condensation of mist which covers Hulk's trail.
    __
  • UnitBody: (New)

    Combined from existing ILBs: Dr_Rock, Frostling dome-like structures, etc.
    TImageSequenceList consists of 10 layers now (+2 layers from P_Smoke.ILB for vapor puffs while moving)... I started when didn't knew that Copy/Paste works with ISL's rows... Don't bother yourself to tell me about my insanity. Maybe I'm mad, but now i'm glad.
    Sadly, i cannot do the same on .ILB level with script (do you really want to download big multi-images consists of parts you already have ?..), so "Dead" animation is not good.

    Functionality:
    It moves much slower than any normal ships (with conventionally built hulls), but is rather invulnerable due to thick ice hull. It even cannot have ordinary sails (cold mist causes drenching, ice accretion, etc), and shutters, rudders (in wells) and other such devices must be used to change aero-/hydrodynamics.
    Strategically, it enforces presence and works as mobile base.
    1) I prefer modified Frost Bolts: Dam 3 (hardly 4), but with both dtCold and dtPhysical. It's ice, right ?

    [This message has been edited by Turbo Beholder (edited 07-16-2006 @ 05:25 PM).]

  • TruePurple
    Member
    posted 05-10-05 05:20 AM EDT (US)     2 / 37       
    I'm not sure what the point of this thread is, a suggestion thread for units of future mods?


    Well concerning your suggestion for iceberg hulk,

    Fire resistance is a absurd ability for an iceberg and fire immunity at silver is even more absurd (could you imagine a iceberg traveling on lava? it could with fire immunity) I'd say fire weakness is much more appropriate for an iceberg. The fact that it could then burn is unfortunate(like a burning water elemental is a strange concept) but its much better then fire immunity, also easily solved by giving it more general resistance.

    Death protection? Why?

    Block? Extra defense makes more sense then block.

    Quoted from TB:

    Only one creature seems to be really dangerous for this ship: Ice Dragon.


    You mean you figure this iceberg would be most vulnerable to ice dragons? How do you figure?

    Your base idea of a ice ship is nice though, no reason to make such a ship slow though. Sure icebergs are slow but thats because they drift. Real icebergs don't have rowers or sails or anything like that. As buoyant as ice can be i'd say a ship made of it would travel higher on the water and would travel faster. Well unless it was a absolutely misshapen mass, frostlings aren't that incompetent of craftsman I wouldn't think.

    Either way, who would want to spend the money for a level 5 transport ship that can only swim (or travel on lava at silver) and is slower then hell? Not that strong attackwise or defense wise either according to your stats.(well for a level 5 at least) Plus hp would cap at 50.

    [This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 05-10-2005 @ 05:45 AM).]

    Kirky Picardo
    Member
    posted 05-10-05 05:31 PM EDT (US)     3 / 37       
    Well, my take on the Iceberg Hulk unit is that was purposefully given skills and abilities which probably to most people are unsuitable. Which is why the statement, "I'll start from a really horrible unit.."

    However, ultimately I don't think the idea for this thread can work properly, for reasons that are very obvious, at least to me. Here people would be judging units as if they were individual entities unto themselves. Which of course they are not. Instead, they are part of a much greater whole, and I just don't think it's possible to make an intelligent evaluation of one unit without intimate knowledge of that greater whole.

    What would happen is people would most likely be evaluating the unit based on how it would fit in the normal game and not the mod it belongs to. An example of this is where True Purple says that there is no reason to make such a ship slow. Well, how do we know it is slow? Because it has 20 movement? It could be that 20 movement in the mod this unit is from is very fast! Of course we have no way of knowing this just by looking at the one unit.

    Anyway, interesting idea though. I think it can be helpful but in a limited way.

    Thanks.

    Kirky

    EDIT: If this thread is for units which will be in the unofficial patch and not individual mods then please disregard my post.

    [This message has been edited by Kirky Picardo (edited 05-10-2005 @ 09:24 PM).]

    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 05-10-05 11:27 PM EDT (US)     4 / 37       

    Quoted from TruePurple:

    I'm not sure what the point of this thread is, a suggestion thread for units of future mods?

    "Pre-proving ground". To preliminary evaluate some unit's idea before release and without mod downloads.

    Quoted from Kirky Picardo:

    What would happen is people would most likely be evaluating the unit based on how it would fit in the normal game and not the mod it belongs to.

    Wonderful!
    Yes, absolute values of stats tells little, relations must be known to describe unit's functionality. I agree. So in order to made unit evaluable, i must write functional conception directly - and specific relations, if any. I'll do it.

    Quoted from Kirky Picardo:

    I think it can be helpful but in a limited way.

    Of course, it cannot replace play-testing. But can save time: e.g. my mistake with Fire Immunity.
    And Allen I.Holub in book "Enough Rope to Shoot Yourself in the Foot" said that chatting between developers was proved to be useful.
    __

    Quoted from TruePurple:

    Fire resistance is a absurd ability for an iceberg
    I'd say fire weakness is much more appropriate for an iceberg.

    Because "anti-..." aproach ("Earth priests turning Air elementals") ? Normal ice is not very combustible...
    AFAIK, solid ice in responce to intense short(relative) flame attack tends to melt or even boil locally without being greatly harmed in general (due to low heat conductivity).

    Quoted from TruePurple:

    (could you imagine a iceberg traveling on lava? it could with fire immunity)

    U-u-ups. Good hit! Immunity removed.

    Quoted from TruePurple:

    The fact that it could then burn is unfortunate
    but its much better then fire immunity, also easily solved by giving it more general resistance.

    You're right. Even "Burning" - incendiary on its surface is more acceptable, even though for Fire Breath it would looks strange.

    Quoted from TruePurple:

    Death protection? Why?

    External shell composed mostly of hard inert material, perhaps it's not as susceptible to curses as creature or uncovered machine. Black bolts or Black Javelin is not obstacle-penetrating... Death Ray perhaps too.

    Quoted from TruePurple:

    Block? Extra defense makes more sense then block.

    Makes it more susceptible to intense cleaving than to projectiles.

    Quoted from TruePurple:

    You mean you figure this iceberg would be most vulnerable to ice dragons?

    It's merely "seems to be" in unit Description... But my point is: it's hi-HP unit with Cold attacks, so worst opponent seems to be strong unit with Cold Immunity.
    (Even though i preferred to modify Frost bolts to do little Dam, but dtPhysical as well (due to ice fragments, as in description above).)

    Quoted from TruePurple:

    icebergs are slow but thats because they drift
    unless it was a absolutely misshapen mass, frostlings aren't that incompetent of craftsman I wouldn't think

    Iceberg, even artificial Hulk, is not carved piece: it's form defined by heat-transfer, etc. So it's hydrodynamics is certainly worse than ship with keel or normal barge can have (not to mention polymaran). Through heat balance (placing freezers well) and chopping off unwanted burr Frostlings can achieve some very solid and "not formless" piece, but hardly something perfect.
    IceHulk cannot have real sails (cold mist causes drenching, ice accretion, etc), though must have shutters, rudders (in wells) and maybe other features to change aero-/hydrodynamics.

    Quoted from TruePurple:

    who would want to spend the money for a level 5 transport ship that can only swim
    and is slower then hell? Not that strong attackwise or defense wise either according to your stats.

    IceHulk can "arrive and stay here". This vaguely resembling early (overloaded) sail battleships.
    It's main quality is good invulnerability, maybe i must raise Def even more. it's not really strong attacker, but in my tests Galleys was Frozen most turns - until destroyed. Slow, but nasty.
    Of course, 2 Galleys have chance to destroy 1 such IceHulk if tactics is sound. But how many Galleys can destroy 2 IceHulks if both tactics is sound (covering behind frozen target, etc) ?
    BTW, i wanted to add some weak form of regeneration, but don't know how to do it. Repair Machine allows to repair allies in combat...

    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...
    RosenMcStern
    Member
    posted 05-11-05 07:45 AM EDT (US)     5 / 37       

    Quoted from TurboBeholder:


    BTW, i wanted to add some weak form of regeneration, but don't know how to do it. Repair Machine allows to repair allies in combat...

    Huh? And what is the problem, then? If i were a Frostling general and were looking for a place to put my supply depot or repair dock, what place would be more suitable than a moving iceberg?

    I'd rather remove Death Protection (death magic can curse the crew) and Block and give it Physical Protection instead.

    And I like the pictures very much...


    Paolo Guccione
    Alephtar Games
    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 05-11-05 09:35 PM EDT (US)     6 / 37       

    Quoted from RosenMcStern:

    If i were a Frostling general and were looking for a place to put my supply depot or repair dock, what place would be more suitable than a moving iceberg?

    Yes, but healing other ships/Baloons in combat is not a thing i wanted...
    But IMO, cheap "Supply Goods" unit (coming soon) loaded on Iceberg will solve problem anyway.

    Quoted from RosenMcStern:

    I'd rather remove Death Protection (death magic can curse the crew)

    It's not Immunity, merely halves damage that cannot harm armor severely. Most dtDeath attacks is beam- or projectile-like. Spells ? What spells other than Ray and Storm ? Default "Weaken" is (15:0). My point is: IceHulk's crew is hidden behind solid cover too, not on deck/rigging as on normal sail ships.
    Environmental conditions (frost of their home harbours and inevitable mist of freezers) forces to conduct any possible operations from inside. Some maintainance or repair must be external, but internal control of rudders/shutters & weapons (pipes) is achievable.

    Quoted from RosenMcStern:

    and Block and give it Physical Protection instead.

    It raises difference in efficiency between conventional projectiles and strong melee attacks.

    [This message has been edited by Turbo Beholder (edited 05-11-2005 @ 11:36 PM).]

    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 05-11-05 10:57 PM EDT (US)     7 / 37       
    Name: Supply Goods
    Race: None; Type: Siege Machine; Alignment: None; Gender: It
    Size: Large (or Medium ?..)
    Level: 1 ; Value: 55 (maybe, 50 ?)
    Def: 6; Res: 7; Hits: 12
    Moves: 4 (if less, it cannot be placed on map in editor or dropped from Transport)
  • Abilities (Initial):
    Walking (again, to place it)
    Mountaineering (why not ? it cannot move itself, but will be placed)
    Fire Weakness ; Poison Immunity (as for other machines. But maybe Protection fits better ?)
    Cold Protection (objectionable, but all is packed)
    Concealment (in bushes not as discernible as most units)
    Healing 1, Repair Machine 1 (reduced mov hinders use of main functions)
    Mud 1, Feral Mount 1 (will be masked by other ability)
  • Body: (New): consists of TC_MiscConstruct.ILB #2 + #0. (resized, all variants too)
    __
    1)To prevent abilities auto-removing after combat, attempted tweak, but debug continues. Or i'll be forced to remove Mov and make unit existing only on Transport.
    Functionality:
    Can be moved by Van as well as other Transports. To say the truth, i wanted "Supply Van" originally, but it can heal in combat, so i started to tinker such "immovable" units. Without enough Movs it will heal only in camp.
  • Variants:
    Nomad/Halfling: Race: None; Value: 45 (maybe, 50)
    Hits: 10 ; removed Cold Protection. Maybe, Steppe Concealment.
    Body: consists of Races\Nomads..ILB #112; #110 for Hit.
    Syron: Race: None (Syron?); Value: 60 (?)
    Def: 7 ; Res: 8 ; Death Protection. Maybe, Lightning Protection.
    Body: consists of Races\Syrons.ILB #112 + #114.
    Shadow Demons: Race: Shadow Demons ; Value: 55 (?)
    Res: 8 ; Death Protection. Maybe, Wasteland Concealment.
    Body: consists of Races\Demons.ILB #114.

    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...

    [This message has been edited by Turbo Beholder (edited 05-12-2005 @ 08:25 PM).]

  • Kirky Picardo
    Member
    posted 05-12-05 05:31 AM EDT (US)     8 / 37       
    Hi Turbo,

    Yes, the only misgivings I have to the idea of a new unit conception thread is being able to evaluate a unit properly in relation to the mod it is in and other units in that mod. I do want to make it clear though that this was not a critcism of your units or ideas. Quite the contrary, I think you have a lot of very creative and thoughtful ideas. The Iceberg Hulk unit for example, is something I think very few people would of ever thought of. I am not sure why you said, "Let's start with an awful unit..." This unit isn't awful at all, it's somewhat ingenius actually.

    Anyway, I just wanted to say this.

    Kirky


    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 05-12-05 08:13 PM EDT (US)     9 / 37       

    Quoted from Kirky Picardo:

    is being able to evaluate a unit properly in relation to the mod it is in and other units in that mod

    It's true, but IMO in majority of cases new relations either can be given in one line or too obvious. E.g., if one wanted to drop basic Frost Blowing by Att:-6,Dam:-3 to create some unit(s) with weak attack, all other units can be adjusted back with Frost Blowing N+3, etc...

    Quoted from Kirky Picardo:

    This unit isn't awful at all, it's somewhat ingenius actually.

    Unit is a product of "fit in setting" - the same functional thinking: if Frostlings have such complex device as Frost Cannon, it hardly can be merely exotic weapon without any other uses (especially since Snowscapers exists too). But it seems awful anyway.

    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...
    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 05-22-05 04:13 AM EDT (US)     10 / 37       
    Name: Black Mist
    Function: non-corporeal floating Undead Transport unit:
    Race: Undead, Al "Pure Evil", Creature, Lvl 4.
  • Basic variant:
    Low Def, high Res. Undead, Holy Weakness, Wind Walking, Pass Wall, Physical Protection, Blurred, Trail of Darkness, Regeneration and Transport 5->7 (raises with ranks)...
    Body: obviously, constructed from Effects/ sprites - mainly (or exclusively) P_Smoke.ILB and Main/P_Death.ILB.
  • Optional: Fire Weakness, Cold Weakness, Block.
  • Combat variant:
    Att - low enough, Dam 1; Strike, Death Strike and Energy Drain as well, abilities Double Strike, Round Attack, Extra Strike (partly at higher ranks) too.

    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...

    [This message has been edited by Turbo Beholder (edited 05-22-2005 @ 04:35 AM).]

  • ChrisTheFencer
    Member
    posted 06-15-05 02:28 PM EDT (US)     11 / 37       
    This seems like a good place to ask this...

    I'm making a mod for use in a senario that I am developing. The main purpose is of the mod is "flavor", giving my various factions units who's names and descriptions are better fits than the standard units'.

    There is however, one big change that I was thinking of making. My intial conception of the setting was that the horse was unknown, which means no cavalry. In the basic game, cavalry units make up one of the main unit branches, and the game has several abilities that portray the strengths and weaknesses of cavalry. I do not wish to simply remove that branch from the game and not replace it.

    So, my question is this: Can anyone think of a concept for a new branch of units, one that might use some of the abilities currently used to model cavalry (charge, mounted<-->pole arm, ect.)? The new branch does not have to fulfill the same role as cavalry, but should be distinct from the other branches.

    Tearion
    Member
    posted 06-15-05 02:55 PM EDT (US)     12 / 37       
    monsters or summoned <--> slayer or summonkiller
    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 11-08-05 03:06 PM EDT (US)     13 / 37       
    Let's continue.

    Name: Dryad
    Race:Elves
    Description: "Dryads are reclusive forest kind of Nymphs that cannot live without proximity of trees. Unable to leave her forest, each Dryad will fiercely protect it if trees is endangered.
    Dryads are not very agressive nor capable of hand-to-hand fighting as such. They prefers to entangle opponents with creeper vines and/or seduce male humanoids, converting dangerous to useful ones."

    Stats given relative to Nymph's:
    Value: x1.5 .. x2
    Attack: = ; Damage: +1
    Defence: +1 ; Resistance: +2
    Hits: +1 ; Movement: =
    Abilities:
    Forestry, Concealment
    Poison Protection
    Magic Strike, Strike
    Seduce, Entangle
    Phase
    Abilities/Silver:
    Blurred
    Control Animal, ? Entangle 2
    Abilities/Gold:
    Entangle Strike, ? Entangle 3, ? Control Animal 2

    Produced - Secret Glade or nothing.

    With Forestry as only movement mode, unit can be placed on Dense Vegetation terrains only. The same trick as with Fire Immunity and Lava.
    __
    Unit Body: copied Nymph, with recolored ILB:
    # Elf_Nymph -> [TBeh]_Dryad
    FILTER 3 -4.05 0.75 0
    CONTRAST 1.25
    R -0.2 1.7 -0.2 0
    G 0.75 -0.25 0.5 0
    B -0.2 0 1.5 0
    FILTER 0 0 0 -255
    CONTRAST 1.4
    R 1.55 -0.8 -0.2 0
    G -0.45 1.35 -0.25 32
    B 0 0 0.8 0


    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...
    Tearion
    Member
    posted 11-08-05 04:07 PM EDT (US)     14 / 37       
    I like your idea of dryads that entangles and then seduces. Is it possible to hexedit seduce so it will entangle also? The seduced unit will not be available for 2 turns and not have such a big impact.
    Or hexedit entangle so it will also seduce. That would mean that the dryad can entangle and seduce non stop.

    [This message has been edited by Tearion (edited 11-08-2005 @ 04:14 PM).]

    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 11-08-05 05:35 PM EDT (US)     15 / 37       

    Quoted from Tearion :

    Is it possible to hexedit seduce so it will entangle also? (...)


    It don't work exactly that way and not very predictable at all.
    I use more advanced method than "HexEdit", but... there's ClassID (that i described as "behavior" dword) and all classes derived from AbilityResource have "Ability ID" (save Walking)and "Level" fields. How all this will work in each case - it's tricky matter. I'll test these things, but perhaps it will be either unlimited Seduce (unlikely), or will be bugs on Save/Load, etc. If i'll find something new, i'll report.
    Now, let's return to new units.
    ____
    Another unit not for open field:

    Name: Aquatic elf
    Race: Elves ; Gender: Female
    Level: 1 ; Value: 60
    Attack: 5 ; Damage: 4..5
    Defence: 4 ; Resistance: 8
    Hits: 8 ; Movement: 32
    Abilities:
    Swimming, Water Concealment
    Concealment, Poison Protection, Night Vision
    Strike
    Entangle
    Abilities/Silver:
    Control Animal
    ? Entangle 2
    Abilities/Gold:
    Vision 1
    ? Entangle 3

    Produced - on Shipyard (if any).
    Performance:
    Weak in melee, but small group can fight Lurkers using Entangle. Or Control Animal at Silver.
    Or stop ships.
    Sneaky low-level swimmer - perhaps this unit can add interesting possibilities.
    __
    Unit Body: Duplicated Astral Sprite, but
    HeigthOffset=-10
    BlockChance=btMedium or btSmall
    Glow: removed or set to some color like 0x004040
    # Syron_Skimmer -> [TBeh]_Elf_Aqua_S
    FILTER 0 0 0 -255
    CONTRAST 1.4
    R -0.1 3 -2.25 0
    G 1.2 1.8 -2.2 0
    B 0.25 -1.35 1.8 0

    (maybe, not final variant)
    __
    AquaElf Hero graphics and UnitBody is made from Tir.ILB and UnitBody, but not looks good yet.


    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...

    [This message has been edited by Turbo Beholder (edited 11-08-2005 @ 07:23 PM).]

    MitchK1989
    Member
    posted 11-23-05 08:39 PM EDT (US)     16 / 37       
    I like the black mist unit for undead, hopefully The Stranger will put it in dwiggs, as the undead are lacking in the transport department, only I'd prefer if it was high def, low res, physical immunity, and no attack at all (that was it couldn't be hit by physical, only dispelled by magic, but without an attack couldn't solo indies). I feel that would be perfect, probably only with transport 5 and maybe 32 or 36 movement.
    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 12-26-05 09:56 PM EDT (US)     17 / 37       
    Name : Assault Crossbowman
    Race : Humans
    Level : 2
    hire : War Hall
    Value : 50 (almost 2x, but still less than Cavalry or Frostling WolfRider)

    Attack : 5 (Swordsman-2)
    Defense : 6 (Swordsman-1)
    Resistance : 6 (Swordsman+1)
    Damage : 4 (Swordsman-1)
    Hits : 12
    Moves : 22 (somewhat overweighted)

  • Abilities :
    Walking, Strike
    Fire Crossbow, Fire Breath
    Marksmanship 1(2,3)

    Description:
    Assault Crossbowmen are handpicked strong Crossbowmen trained to assist other assault forces and wearing good armor.
    Their weapons are augmented with piston flamethrower attachments.
    Regular Assault Crossbowmen carries 3 heavy "flame-pipes" loaded with light flammable oil and instead of shooting bolt can use power of crossbow string to spray fire over large area, thus disabling some opponents before other infantry engages in melee.


    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...
  • Webusver
    Member
    posted 12-27-05 09:07 AM EDT (US)     18 / 37       
    I think that better is to improve the existing common units for each race and also not to increase total number of units. Numbers is the enemy of Unique.
    Most of those just recolored units in 1.4. are not impressive, but those really new - these ones are great. I like mushroom and golem very much.
    My dream now is to find a new original beautiful body to human with, because in my edition I like her more and more
    It would also be nice to replace bodies of human halberdier and light cavalry since they remind me "hippi on the path of war". It's difficult to take them seriously...

    btw some sort of unit idea... how about a transport ship with "shadow shift"?

    [This message has been edited by Webusver (edited 12-27-2005 @ 09:16 AM).]

    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 12-28-05 00:42 AM EDT (US)     19 / 37       

    Quoted from Webusver:

    Most of those just recolored units in 1.4. are not impressive, but those really new - these ones are great.

    Of course, some units (including tricky "minor" changes, like this heavier crossbowman) cannot be recolored, new graphics required. In separate thread there i proposed a hard for start, but very promising way to do it, but no visible results right now.

    Quoted from Webusver:

    btw some sort of unit idea... how about a transport ship with "shadow shift"?

    I thought of this too, but just "Transport 7, Shadow Shift is a bit too powerful and out-of- original setting (perhaps "Shadow Rose",Transport 1, Shadow Shift more promising)...
    Maybe, deployable (Morph ...) ShadowGate machine ? But this requires some exe-Mod experiments and perhaps Ability tweaking too.

    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...
    The_Stranger
    Member
    posted 12-28-05 03:34 AM EDT (US)     20 / 37       
    Hi Mitch,

    I've added the floating death thing, and you can write a description for it! See my mod thread.

    Turbo! You are a busy man these days, it seems. My problem is that I can think of more units than I have time to test whether I can make abilities that work for them.

    But, what about a Harpooner or Hunter that throws spears (Harpoons, javelins) that "trap" the prey?

    regards,

    BJ

    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 12-28-05 04:50 PM EDT (US)     21 / 37       
    About ability tweaking: you (STL-pack beta-tester) can ask via mail, others have special thread.
    About units with Trap - IMHO "Whaleboat" or something like could have this ability and look good.
    ________________________________

    Quoted from luc96:

    a huge Battering Ram that acts as a great shield/cover(Block Chance Extra Large; unit size Extra Large)

    AFAIK, this machine called "Mantlet", low version - "Abatis".
    It seems to be necessary (considering AoW II/SM tactic model with blockchance and small battlemap). And in my mod Mantlet will be accessible for all races @ Builders Hall or Siege Workshop according to their assumed affinity to massive wood works.

    Quoted from kaskoid:

    one shooting and one holding an oversized shield or pushing some sort of mantlet

    ...and why don't we add this unit to Mod ?

    But there's one potential trouble: it's questionable how Mantlet will be used by AI... if any: will it drag to siege and move in combat unit without attacks at all ? Even if so - will AI use cover adequately or not ?
    Must be tested.

    Name : Mantlet
    Type : Machine;
    Size : Extra Large; UnitBody.BlockChance: Extra Large
    Level : 1
    Value : 60
    Access: Builders Hall or Siege Workshop according to race's assumed ability to carry out massive wood works.
    Attack : 0, Damage : 0
    Defense : 10, Resistance : 10
    Hits : 24
    Moves : 16

  • Abilities :
    Walking, Block
    Poison Immunity, Death Protection, Cold Protection
    ? Physical Protection
    Description:
    Movable section of the wooden wall is bulky thing, but it can be quite useful in combat against opponents with missile weapons - at least, if projectiles have depressed trajectories.

    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...

    [This message has been edited by Turbo Beholder (edited 12-30-2005 @ 04:56 AM).]

  • Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 07-11-06 04:18 PM EDT (US)     22 / 37       
    Name : Bully
    Race : Orcs
    Level : 1 (2?)
    hire: War Hall
    Value : 35 (40?)

    Attack : 8 (Nomad Barbarian-1)
    Defense : 6
    Resistance : 7
    Damage : 7
    Hits : 14 (Nomad Barbarian+1)
    Moves : 26

  • Abilities (Initial):
    Walking, Strike
    Night Vision, Forestry
    Round Attack, Charge
  • Abilities (Silver):
    Extra Strike, Concealment
  • Abilities (Gold):
    First Strike, Fury
    Leadership 1

    (Maybe, Silver: First Strike, Gold: Extra Strike ?..)

    Description:
    Most people used to think that ALL Orcs are bullies. Orcs don't.
    Bullies are Orcs strong and agressive enough to become Warlords, but too dumb, unlucky or poor. Frequently they just likes scuffle, and quickly becomes local champions, mercenaries or bandits for the sake of greater opportunities for fight in such a positions.
    Orc Bully's weapon of choice is longest and heaviest sword he can brandish.
    Usually they don't use armor other than few furs - either because of good armor's cost (if he could, he'd became Warlord) and since they tend to rely more on mobility and crushing attacks than to cheap armor. After all, to engage in melee they frequently have to chase opponents first.

    Orc Bullies are capable of performing the Round Attack, swinging the sword in a circular arc to strike all who stand nearby.

    Experienced Orc Bully is learned how to use his speed and blade's length, reaching opponents before they can strike or sweeping away pole arms set against him.

    Unit Body : Nomad_Barbarian, recolored:
    # Nomad_Barbarian -> [TBeh]_Orc_Bully

    FILTER 3.8 -1.25 -3.15 0
    FILTER 0.25 1.95 -2.65 0
    CONTRAST 1.3
    R 0.35 0.3 0 0
    G 0.65 0 0.1 8
    B 0 0.15 0.9 0

    FILTER 0.3 1 0.3 255
    CONTRAST 1.5
    BRIGHTNESS 0.95
    R 1 0 0 0
    G 0 1 0 0
    B 0 0 1 0
    ScaleTC/ScaleWM = 1.06


    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...

    [This message has been edited by Turbo Beholder (edited 07-17-2006 @ 05:53 AM).]

  • Swolte
    AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
    posted 07-11-06 09:41 PM EDT (US)     23 / 37       
    Thanks, will check it out for v1.5 tonight.


    Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
    My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
    Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
    My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
    Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
    Munataros
    Member
    posted 07-11-06 10:53 PM EDT (US)     24 / 37       

    Quoted from Swolte:

    Thanks, will check it out for v1.5 tonight.

    Uh, is there upatch v1.5 or dwiggs v1.5 or.. ?

    [This message has been edited by Munataros (edited 07-11-2006 @ 10:56 PM).]

    Swolte
    AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
    posted 07-12-06 01:29 AM EDT (US)     25 / 37       
    UPatch, Stranger does the Dwiggs thing.


    Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
    My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
    Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
    My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
    Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 07-12-06 11:33 AM EDT (US)     26 / 37       
    Name : Glue Cannon
    Type : Machine;
    Level : 3 (?)
    recruitment: as other dwarven Machines; Dwarven Masters' Guild.
    Value : 190

    Defense : 7
    Resistance : 8
    Hits : 18
    Moves : 20

  • Abilities (Initial):
    Walking
    Poison Immunity
    Physical Protection, Block1,
    Fire Weakness
    Web, @DoomGaze#Venomous Spit 2
  • Abilities (Silver):
    Marksmanship 1 Web 2
  • Abilities (Gold):
    Marksmanship 2 Web 3

    Maybe, Venomous Spit Att/Dam adjusted by Marksmanship / .Level.
    1) as "Projectile Protection"
    2) tweaked: target will be Paralyzed if harmed by 1 or more hitpoints by attack, as DoomGaze does.

    Description:
    Having some problems with flying opponents, Dwarves developed this machine. It allows either to pulverize fast-setting glue, covering target with cloud of web-like threads at minimal range or to squirt it farther in long jet which sticks and dangles from target like rubber icicles, thus immobilizing it and pulling nearer to the ground. Second mode tend to intoxicate target with thickener, but still sheds with ease and cannot hold target for a long time.

    UnitBody: based on FrostCannon, recolored as follows:
    # FrostCannon -> [TBeh]_Glue_Cannon
    FILTER -3 -3 1 -56
    BRIGHTNESS 3
    R 3 0 0 0
    G 0 2 0 0
    B 0 0 3 0
    FILTER 0 -1 1.05 -5
    FILTER -1 0 1.05 -64
    CONTRAST 1.5
    R 0.8 0 0 0
    G 0 0.9 0 0
    B 0 0 0.65 0

    SFX is based on softened/gurgling sounds:
    Walking HWheel3;HWheel2; HWheel1:0,70,8000; Splat1:0,40,0;
    Attack M_4Soft2:0,400,8000; Darter:100,100,8000; Squish:300,100,1000; I_Poison:250,70,10000; M_Tree-Ent:100,60,8000;
    Hit H_Machine:50,100,8000; Splat1:200,100,0; Squish:0,70,0;
    Die D_Machine:0,100,0; Mud:0,50,10000; Splat1:450,200,0;
    Selection S_Machine:0,70,12000; Splat1:250,70,0


    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...

    [This message has been edited by Turbo Beholder (edited 07-17-2006 @ 05:49 AM).]

  • sausud
    Member
    posted 07-16-06 06:59 AM EDT (US)     27 / 37       
    How about a Level 4 Loremaster.

    He can have the recolored image of runemaster. Stats: The creator of units may decide.


    -= Love heals all =-
    The One and only NymphMaster!
    Aow-SM Maps: The Titan Gate (4.9/5)
    Aow-TWT Maps:Glass (4.6/5)
    Got any questions/suggestions regarding my maps? Post them HERE
    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 07-18-06 01:29 PM EDT (US)     28 / 37       

    Quoted from sausud:

    How about a Level 4 Loremaster.

    Yet it's only name and one property. What this unit is supposed to be (and do) ?

    Quoted from sausud:

    He can have the recolored image of runemaster. Stats: The creator of units may decide.


    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...
    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 09-17-06 11:14 AM EDT (US)     29 / 37       
    Name : Disenchanter

    Race : Humans
    Level : 1 (2 ?)
    Value : 45

    Attack : 5, Damage : 4
    Defense : 5
    Resistance : 8 (Archon Militia +3)
    Hits : 10, Moves : 24

  • Abilities (Initial):
    Walking, Strike
    Magic Protection
    Dispel Magic 2
  • Abilities (Silver):
    Magic Immunity
    Dispel Magic 3
  • Abilities (Gold):
    True Seeing
    Dispel Magic 4

    Maybe, Dispel Magic 1, (2,3) - depends on basic attack value and spell costs in ruleset.

    Description:
    After ages of rampaging magical monsters and war spells people natural resistant to magic not only became more frequent due to natural (or innatural) choice, but also enjoys continual demand for their abilities. Sometimes they are numerous enough to organize regular teaching and knows how to amplify their gift and get utmost from it.
    Though Disenchanters cannot steal enchantments to use later (like Syron Spellbinders), they at least ensures that opponent they can get to will not take advantage of any enchantments either. Already considerable strength of their Dispel Magic grows stronger with experience. Disenchanter who is not quite green cannot be directly affected by magic if he does not wants that.

    UnitBody: based on Archon Militia (Special animation resembles Attack, slowed from 15 FPS down to 10), recolored as follows (preliminary version):
    # Archon_Militia -> [TBeh]_Human_Disenchanter
    FILTER 0 0 1 -102
    FILTER 3 -1 -2.35 0
    R 0 1.8 -0.9 0
    G 1.05 -0.3 0.1 0
    B 0.5 -0.1 0.55 0
    FILTER 0 0 0 -1
    CONTRAST 1.15
    R 0.8 -1 0.5 0
    G -1.4 0 1.65 0
    B -0.15 2 -1 16

    P.S.: and yes, i know what "disenchanter beast" is.
    In addition, custom Hero (Human warrior, female) with Magic Protection | Magic Immunity, True Seeing, Dispel Magic of formidable level and title "Disenchantee" would be funny option too.


    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...
  • flyguy
    Member
    posted 09-17-06 03:14 PM EDT (US)     30 / 37       
    Re: post #29

    I like the idea of giving higher levels to 'Dispel Magic'.

    As the game is now, the AI will choose to use Dispel Magic on my hero over melee in combat; but currently, Dispel Magic usually fails to remove high level enchantments. I recently had two shadow demon brains use Dispel Magic over and over on my wounded hero when melee would have been a much better decision. (I survived that battle; but I should have been defeated).

    Swolte
    AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
    posted 09-17-06 10:05 PM EDT (US)     31 / 37       
    Nice one, concept is great as well.
    I'd like to use it for v15, if you dont mind!

    Have you tested and confirmed that the higher levels of enchant work? We should use it on some more units.

    Does it work with Steal enchant as well (the higher level?)



    Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
    My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
    Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
    My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
    Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

    [This message has been edited by swolte (edited 09-17-2006 @ 10:08 PM).]

    The_Stranger
    Member
    posted 09-17-06 11:12 PM EDT (US)     32 / 37       
    Hi there....


    I tested Steal Enchant and Dispel Magic some time ago on several Dwiggs units, and they seem to work fine At least, the altered values show up in the game.

    sausud
    Member
    posted 09-23-06 02:02 PM EDT (US)     33 / 37       
    Name: Loremaster
    Race: Dwarves
    Description: Dwarven Loremasters are the ancient enchanters also known as the Elder Dwarves. Through ages of research in ancient lores, the loremasters have become formidable magicians, imbuing the weapons with numerous magical abilities. They always carry with them their magical sacks that contain varied items of magic. Though primarily they spend their time researching, they are also a force to reckon with in melee combat.

    Stats:
    Level - 3
    Attack - 12
    Damage - 9
    Defence - 10
    Resistance - 14
    Hits - 16
    Moves - 28 or 32

    Abilities:
    Walking
    Mountaineering
    Strike
    Magic Protection
    Magic strike
    Pixie Dust
    Dispel Magic

    Produced:
    Stone Menders

    Cost:
    Produce: 130 Gold
    Upkeep: 12 gold


    -= Love heals all =-
    The One and only NymphMaster!
    Aow-SM Maps: The Titan Gate (4.9/5)
    Aow-TWT Maps:Glass (4.6/5)
    Got any questions/suggestions regarding my maps? Post them HERE

    [This message has been edited by sausud (edited 09-23-2006 @ 02:25 PM).]

    Waterlaz
    Member
    posted 11-19-06 04:32 PM EDT (US)     34 / 37       
    I think that it is a greate idea with an iceberg transport... It makes different races more unique. And that is a "must_have" for an interesting gameplay... Let's take StarCraft for example 3 absolutely different races... And that's what makes this game very interesting.
    I am not very sure about fire protection and other things like that for an iceberg... But the idea is greate...
    If you think, that removing fire_protection makes your unit much weeker you can give it something like a healing ability. Couse you have some kind of a snow house on it. Why can't it have a nice frostling hospital on it?
    Of course to even out the ingame balance you'll have to add some units to other races. But not transports ofcourse.

    PS sorry for my english

    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 11-21-06 01:19 PM EDT (US)     35 / 37       

    Quoted from "swolte":

    I'd like to use it for v15, if you dont mind!

    Of course, but i have to make recoloring better , there's another version, but it's raw too.

    2 sausud: [Loremaster] I agree with an idea of Runemaster-like unit with more special actions, but have doubts whether Pixie Dust is appropriate for dwarf.

    Quoted from "Waterlaz":

    I am not very sure about fire protection and other things like that for an iceberg...
    If you think, that removing fire_protection makes your unit much weeker

    It's not balance, i assign stats relative to another units, but at design-time thinking about concept only, not "game balance": it's applied later as a cost/level and minor adjustments. Because i define unit not as some analog of another unit, but as a new function. Iceberg has Fire Protection merely as a hull made of quite nonflammable material. I thought about Immunity, but as TruePurple pointed out, it would mean skimming over lava.
    As it's more "ship of military presence" than transport (very slow), Protections does not spoil it anyway.

    Quoted from "Waterlaz":

    you can give it something like a healing ability. Couse you have some kind of a snow house on it. Why can't it have a nice frostling hospital on it?

    Surely it can, but i avoid any machines with active Healing/Repair Machine and still can't make such Ability passive-only. One solution is Supply Goods, but it still not good yet.

    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...
    Swolte
    AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
    posted 11-22-06 01:31 AM EDT (US)     36 / 37       
    Ps, TB, did you get my email about the upatch team. we could kinda use your help on some fx-stuff!


    Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
    My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
    Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
    My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
    Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
    Turbo Beholder
    Member
    posted 11-22-06 04:12 AM EDT (US)     37 / 37       
    Name : Flying Eye
    Type : Machine;
    Size: Small
    Level : 1 (?)
    Value : 100 (?)

    Attack : 0
    Defense : 10
    Resistance : 12
    Damage : 0
    Hits : 4
    Moves : 36

  • Abilities (Initial):
    Poison Immunity
    Invisibility
    Blurred (?)
    Block
    Cold Protection
    Fire Protection
    Night Vision (?)
    Wind Walking 1
    Maybe, Summoned
  • Abilities (Silver, Gold): n/a, it's pure scout-drone without attacks.

    Notes:
    1: in order to allow it being dispelled or stolen with some effort, .Origin = Spell and .CastMana is raised above normal value (depends of Dispel Magic attack values used in ruleset); Upkeep Mana is raised as well, to make use of Steal Enchantment on built-in enchantment less profitable.
    Tweaking of .Enchantment Data is outlined there

    Supposed to be more interesting when higher-level instances Dispel Magic is available (e.g. Disenchanter unit) along with low-level ones.


    And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence
    ______\ R.W.Wood /________/ R.Kipling \______ [UPatch 1.4 Team]
    The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane...
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