Congrats on this . (I never saw so many Red named guys in one topic ).

[This message has been edited by Rheno (edited 01-19-2009 @ 02:24 AM).]

incredible how many bible/historians/religion-experts are around here...
and indeed also incredible is the amount of names in this thread I haven´t seen before yet Where have you been hiding ??

ps...

*Cherubs are actually Paganist, not Christian, along with Halloween. For some reason, both got adopted into Christianity.*

Actually, I didn´t want to comment on any religios stuff having discussed this silly topic often and long enough in my life but:
Has not almost everything from Christianity been adopted from paganism (or any other ancient cultural source...) and sold as their own idea in the book of lies?...
OK, I´ll shut up from now on, couldn´t resist that one though ...

[This message has been edited by morgul666 (edited 01-18-2009 @ 09:17 AM).]

From the AoW1H Community, we're proud to have you Enginerd! May your rule be long and prosperous! =D

no one could deserve the angel title more than you Enginerd, congratulations!

* appears in a blaze of light*

Just for the record. Cherubim appear in the book of Genesis of the old testament (so they go back a loooong way, roughly between 1000-700BC, probably dating back to older oral (pagan) sources).

[q=Genesis 3:24]He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.The Book of Enoch (I think only Jewish lore and the Ethiopian Church have accepted this book as part of their canon) describes them more fully. Ezekiel ads some more lore on the regular books.

Isaiah (IIRC written between 700-500BC) mentions seraphim for the first time.

[q=Isaiah 6:2]Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.

These seem to root in the same word translated as the fiery serpents in Deuteronomy and Numbers (slightly earlier than Isaiah).

Please not that the naked winged baby putti (commonly known as cherubs) are about as far away from the biblical angels as you can get.

The messengers (gr. angelos) mentioned earlier are the Malach and seem to be a separate kind of angel.

Interestingly enough I think only one or two angels mentioned by name in the OT. Most 'common' angels names derive from Enoch. The New Testament added a bunch of others.

Lot more of them were added through kabalism and such disciplines and medieval christian scholars.

Anyroad, before I forget the most important bit:
Congratulations to Enginerd! I must say he looks good in red

Quoted from The Groll:

Behind the Seraphs of HG ther are the Halos. The ones who who earn the money for this page and they are the only who can drink the blood of anyone in this little world.

I have no idea what this comment is supposed to mean, but I'm sure no vampangel has done more to earn his wings (and fangs) than Enginerd. He can drink my blood anytime

Jayhawk seems to have beaten me to the point, but since this question has come up a number of times before. it's my understanding that the choice of terminology had little to do with theology Judeo-Christian or otherwise. In the beginning (to coin a phrase) there was Archangel, who created a site that would later become Heavengames LLc. The first staffers were given the honorarium "Angel" as part of their user name; you still see it occasionally as in Angel Draco. As the network grew and it was decided that there needed to be a more formal heirarchy and titles, the terms "Seraph[im]" and "Cherub[im]" were selected, for the "greater" and "lesser" orders. Whether or not the PTB shared the common confusion of the Biblical Cherubim with the Putti of medieval art is a matter of speculation, but in any case it must have seemed a logical choice as a popular term.

Now I should point out that (being one) HG Cherubs are still nothing to sneeze at. The distinction between the Cherub and Angel titles was originally that the latter had FTP access rights to the server (could change files directly) and the former did not. There have however been from time to time several fairly important staffers (and I am not one) including members of the FMT with only the title of Cherub.

This is HeavenGames, not a religious advocacy forum, and with that in mind remember that had Archangel chosen differently, we staffers might be Demons waving pitchforks at you instead of the +5 Club of Heavenly Banning. All staffers have earned and should be accorded respect, and few here more so then Enginerd.

So let's give it to him [Throws pie]

I only brought up these questions out of fun and curiosity - I had and still have no intention on stepping on anyone's toes, religious or otherwise, so please forgive any hard feelings. I meant none.

So, thanks for the biblical scholarship, Jayhawk; I stand corrected. And thanks for the history of HeavenGames, Chowguy!

[This message has been edited by Beren V (edited 01-20-2009 @ 09:31 PM).]

The ones who who earn the money for this page...

Speaking as a halo, I can vouch that up to now most of the money we earn is either stored to survive bad times (and boy did that turn out to be a good idea a couple years ago) or is put back into the sites to pay for the servers and disk space we use.

Beren, you're more than welcome. I gathered most of that knowledge in endless discussions in OD and the Library forums.

ChowGuy's story is correct, but I can add a few bits.

The current idea is that any staffer starts as cherub (there have been exceptions, but then again...aren't there always?). Most of our access does not involve FTP anymore (something that was originally restricted as at one time some staffer used the HG server to host warez...) but works through a CMS (Content Management System). The CMS allows for setting various levels of access based on site and location, so even cherubs can directly create content on site. So they no longer need to rely on angels to upload stuff and angels can do more useful things with their time

Nowadays cherubs get promoted to angel for different reasons, the most common being as appreciation for the amount of work done. However, as angels are more visible than cherubs, some cherubs decline the honour.

We always (only half jokingly) say that:
Forumers: Write and Submit
Cherubs: Write, read, rewrite and Submit
Angels: Write, read, rewrite, read, rewrite and Submit (90% of the time, delete the post the other 10%)
Seraphs: Write, read, rewrite, read, rewrite, read, rewrite and Submit (50% of the time, delete the post the other 50%)
Halos: Write, read, rewrite, read, rewrite, read, rewrite, read, rewrite and Submit (10% of the time, delete the post the other 90%)

You can see why people sometimes decline promotion

A seraph is basically an angel in charge of a site. Most sites have a co-seraphship to make it less likely for a site to be without direction. We can't as yet only colour seraphs orange on their own sites, but it's something we've been thinking of implementing.

Many sites will work game titles into the default forum titles, where they will translate the ranks into ranks that make sense for the game.

Oh, currently the Halo, the owners, consists of a trinity: Zen, Socvazius and yours truly.

I appreciate all the fine comments, it is an honor.

It's also amazing that it took this announcement to generate all sorts of discussion. It was really fun to read that history. (wait... I think I'm supposed to reread this post one more time , all those new rules )

I had and still have no intention on stepping on anyone's toes, religious or otherwise, so please forgive any hard feelings. I meant none.

How bout the fact that Jesus Christ didn´t exist? In age of wonders these creatures are common tho.

[This message has been edited by Munataros (edited 01-23-2009 @ 10:11 AM).]

[Moderator] Muna, I think that may take the thread off topic. From congratulating Enginerd to discussing Angelic hierarchies is fine with me, however, discussing the existence of Jesus goes a bit too far.

Feel free to open it somewhere else, though.

Hate to be rude, but... we don't know if the chap they call Jesus Christ in the new testament did or didn't exist.

Actually, the chap Jesus Christ is considered a historical figure. There is many prove that there actually was a person called Jesus Christ in that time period and some of his deeds have been recorded by historical sources beside the new testament. There is also information about his brothers/sisters and others in his close vicinity. Also the gospels have many references to that specific period that can be traced back as well. The main question is whether you would consider this man to be the son of God, as he claims to be. For this you would look at the four gospels, which could in turn be considered historical sources.

Sorry Swolte for this offtopic. I will shut up now. Again congrats Enginerd

I also want to mention that there should be Belsebubs and Demons on forums I leave the answering to Rheno some other time then

Yea congrats.

Great idea!! let us ‘forum-mere-mortals’ have demonic titles!
I want to be Beelzebub Morgul then !
(that brings us back on topic btw - it´s about titles at last, isn´t it ??

Congrats Enginerd! – Found out I didn´t mention that yet but rather broke loose a giant discussion with my stupid question…

Congrats, Enginerd!

I've been here what, a few days? But I can tell this is quite an achievement! I've avoided posting in this forum so as not to take away your congratulations thread from the top =]

GJ!

Hey Enginerd, wish u a heartiest congratulations!!!