Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
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posted
09-09-09 09:25 AM
EDT (US)
61 / 244
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to TNS! On today's show we will continue our talk with Swolte on restarts and fair play. Swolte, welcome, we left off our discussion last time on restarts and you had something to add.
Yes, I am glad you remember! There were a couple of things, and the most important being: trust. In PBEM you are in a situation where your opponent is playing a turn against your precious troops (in some dark, smokey room on the other side of the world), and you cannot see what is going on at all! This can often lead to suspicion, especially when there are restarts involved.
The tournament rules are somewhat unclear on whether you can have battles or not on restarts. It's easy to say to not do any big battles, but if you want to operationalize these statement in objective rules, what defines 'big'? A full stack? A full stack of lvl-1's? And remember that big battles may not be crucial battles at all. Often you can lose the war because of a small, but crucial, battle: killing that Zephyr (or not losing it), may just prevent your opponent from revealing your entire strategy which can have a huge effect on the course of the game! Was that a big battle?
What I am trying to say is that its impossible to rule. And I think the best way to go is to ask what your opponent is comfortable with. And I guess, if you cannot resolve it yourselves, the judges can look at things on a case-by-case basis.
My personal take is quite trusting. I wouldn't do upon my opponent what I wouldn't like for myself. For example, sometimes there is a rare but silly occasion for a restart. For example, I have accidentally opened my pbem game, when trying to load a testmap (this happens often to me). Now, avoiding big battles in that turn can have a HUGE impact on the game! I wouldn't want that for myself, as well as for my opponent. The tournament match should be one of skill, and I don't like restart mechanics to play a role in these. I would have no restrictions: just play the turn as if it were real.
This may seem naive to some, but I think its the best way to go about it. We're a relatively mature group and we're here to have fun. The temptation to cheat can certainly be big, but I think we are mature enough to refrain from this, and be good losers.
So, have you ever cheated?
Never in a tournament.
*Eyes suddenly light up* Ah... So, you have in normal games then?! Confess, Swolte!
I didn't say... ok, well, I have broken the rules once in a while but I usually explicitley and openly announce these beforehand. This is usually because I believe it will benefit the game. And people have always gone along.
- awkward silence -
Ok, and maybe once about 5 years ago... it was in a fun game, really stupid, and would have ruined the game if I hadn't.
*Gasp* Ladies and gentl...
Well, this is no justification. It is totally wrong to do so, but interesting to see how you make all these reasons to serve as justifications for these actions. There are none, there simply is NO good reason. No matter how STUPID your move is (even today, I made a simple counting mistake which cost me so dearly...). It's best to just be open about it, and perhaps, in leisurely games people will agree it's ok to restart if the mistake is 'really' stupid and ruins a fun game. Obviously, for a tournament, restarting for stupidity is not allowed at all: one misclick can be fatal, and this should be the case. A tournament is about playing on the edge!
What if people are cheating? What is the punishment.
This is an interesting question. Obviously, we'll deal with such matters on a case-by-case bases, but in the worst case you would be expelled from the tournament, and if it was up to me, a cheater would be banned from the forums.
Banned?! There is nothing about that in the code of conduct.
Yes, but I think I would still push for it. I mean, if posting two flaming and vulgar messages, or an advertisement picture can get you banned, than cheating should be 10x worse in my books. Keep in mind that with cheating, other people can be deeply hurt and affected. For the players, tournament organization, and the entire community it is very bad. Damaged trust is hard to repair and the whole community will feel it. If someone is being caught cheating (and we do, often, catch them!), we cannot just have those games replayed. We may even be in the second round already! A nightmare for an organization.
I think banning ok to do for tournament but I may have to go to the 'higher powers at Heavengames' to get it done. There is an interesting situation for leisurely PBBEM games, though, that has to do with how you view heavengames.
In one view, Heavengames can be seen as a platform for games, like a big room, where people can gather to play their own games. Imagine a public board-gaming library providing the space and opportunity to play. There would be rules of conduct, like no littering and/or loud swearing against the librarian, but what happens in your 'private' monopoly game is of no interest to the librarian. You could argue this would be up to the group! If they keep it quiet, and don't throw pieces around, I, as a librarian, would have no business banning people from this public place for cheating. Your friends would self-regulate.
The other view is seeing Heavengames as a social community. In that sense, HG is also responsible for people's behaviour and put effort into attempting to correct, reward, and punish behavior. Being here would imply being part of the community and but being part of a community also comes with responsibilities and regulations which are enforced.
Obviously, this is a classic tension, and I am sure people will have different opinions about this.
Callers are welcome! Ok, let's get back to the actual game, instead of this socio-cultural drivel. What about people breaking the houserules because they don't know!
Right. Ok, this is tricky, for the tournament we expect people to have read and understood all the rules (including the house rules!). Anyone who signs up should know them but the reality is that some people won't like reading. Breaking one of the house rules can result in your game being forfeit, so its important to know them well.
I also want to mention to players out there to be your own agent as well, and generally play 'by the books'. For those handful of players who have been around for quite long, they may know a few tricks in this game NOT listed in the house rules which are definitely not part of the intended game mechanics. Obviously, those type of tricks are not allowed. Some players have already emailed me about those and the answer is to just play by the book, i.e., fair.
I heard something before about the final game being different?
Yes, the plan is to have every turn sent through me (unless I am in the final myself). This way every day can be monitored. But the main reason is to afterwards make a detailed report with some cool pictures!
Pictures sounds great! Swolte, you will come to the show tomorrow for an important announcement, correct?
Yes, we're going to reveal the order of the maps for subsequent rounds.
We'll look forward to that. Ladies and gentlemen, this was TNS for today![This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 09-09-2009 @ 10:17 AM).]
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