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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW3: General Discussion & suggestions » Races
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Topic Subject:Races
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Tomipapa
Member
posted 02-07-13 07:36 AM EDT (US)         
So far we have:
Humans
Elves
Dwarfes
Goblins
Orcs
Undead
I have a feeling we dont have as much races as in the prev titles simple because of the new class/unique unit system. They have to make every unit combinations eg:dwarf crusader, human crusader, goblin crusader ect. and its a hell lot of a work. Also Im a bit curious how this new system works. How different will be a winged goblin from a winged dwarf? Are there still race specific units like troll for the goblins? And how a naturally evil troll can fit in to the goblin army if the leader is a Theocrat, does the troll become good as well? And by the way why should faith automatically makes someone good. There are no evil religions or Gods? So can i play as an evil Theocrat.Just because a winged angel like creature would be strange for an evil Theocrat. Oh and lastly: The Undeads!
Ok im not against a good goblin or orc it worked in many games like warcraft(Thrall) or in the DnD universe BUT! Undeads are always evil. Seriously guys you cant change that its written in the stars, its the eternal law of the universe. Its in their nature! Please guys honestly i dont want to see an undead Archdruid who is summoning zombies for gardening or tree hugging... So their must be some race/class restrictions. A fantasy games which let the player do anything, anytime without rules never ends well belive me.

[This message has been edited by Tomipapa (edited 02-07-2013 @ 07:47 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
PawelS
Member
posted 02-07-13 09:25 AM EDT (US)     1 / 104       
If there are less races than in the previous games, I think the reason is that they will be included in future DLCs.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
IMPSOLARIVS
Member
posted 02-07-13 09:26 AM EDT (US)     2 / 104       
The idea in AOW1, dividing various races into good, evil and neutral, is not bad.

Die Partei hat immer Recht.
Mac_Biodiesel
Member
posted 02-07-13 09:56 AM EDT (US)     3 / 104       
I would be disappointed with fewer races than what AOW1 has. The variety is great, I think!
Nimretil
Member
posted 02-07-13 10:02 AM EDT (US)     4 / 104       
Where is this information from by the way? I haven't find anything on races yet.

Actually I think this rpg style leader stuff is a really good idea. Why coudn't undead be good? Undead is a creature that had died and then returned to "life". It doesn't need to be evil.
sikbok
VIP
posted 02-07-13 10:24 AM EDT (US)     5 / 104       
Undeads are always evil
Not necessarily, I seem to remember this vampire Angel in Buffy the Vampire Slayer ; )>

>>>Delete Yourself; You've got no chance to win<<<

Atari TeenAge Riot

Nimretil
Member
posted 02-07-13 10:40 AM EDT (US)     6 / 104       
Actually in Sacred 2 there is a "good" playable undead unit. Haarhus becomes good again at the end in Disciples 3. There are many good vampires as well. Being good is not only an option for the living.
Tomipapa
Member
posted 02-07-13 11:26 AM EDT (US)     7 / 104       
Hahaha I knew someone will mention the vampires
For me Dracula and Nosferatu are the vampires not the todays teen wet dream Vampire Diaries, Buffy, or Twilight but ok its just my opinion maybe im too hidebound in this question
Nimretil:
Well i watched the trailer and the screenshots.

sikbok:
Can you tell us the estimated number of races? No need to say the exact number just something like more than 6 or fewer than
10

I love this new rpg leader idea with special units, i just fear that the races on their own wont be as unique as in the previous titles
The Harlequin
Member
posted 02-07-13 11:44 AM EDT (US)     8 / 104       
Fewer races don't bother me at all. If anything, with fewer races, they have the chance to make them even more distinct and personal than before. I'm fine with it.
Merkraad
Member
posted 02-07-13 03:03 PM EDT (US)     9 / 104       
What Harlequin said. No problem with fewer races, the devil is in the details. I would like to see around 8 very different races gameplay/lore/graphic wise; but the more the merrier if they are well done!

I think the Leader classes customizing the races is a major, if not THE major feature of the game. I don't see any issues with the combinations, and I don't think any possibility should be forbidden. I think its quite fun and will make the game unique instead of having to somehow 'obey' previous fantasy 'rules' and lore.

I can see Undeads being 'good' with Theocrats; even if it is indeed a good/angel type religion, then such am empire would consist of Holy Revenants that fight for justice - its not even an unheard of concept. I can see Undeads being led by an Archdruid too; I instantly imagined a Zombie covered with poisonous vines and entangling an enemy =) An animal horde attack could consist of undead animals, avenging the ruthless hunting and forest destruction propagated by a Dreadnought leader

All this makes me wonder - is there going to be leader customization, and will magic spheres picks or race affect alignment? It seems like the Leader Classes could be a sort of combo. For example choosing theocrat you choose not only religion, but Good, since the Units receive Angel wings. The Warlord could mean being Conqueror (as in the AoW SM leader trait) and evil and so on.

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ArkhanTheBlack
Member
posted 02-07-13 03:13 PM EDT (US)     10 / 104       
Undeads are always evil

Not necessarily, I seem to remember this vampire Angel in Buffy the Vampire Slayer ; )>
You know that Angel was only 'good' because of a curse, do you? I guess you never watched the show since the 'original' Angel was extremly evil.

Anyway, I don't consider undead a 'race' at all. They aren't a 'life form' that can have kids. And what the heck should undead do the whole day? Picking worms from their body? Holding graveyard parties?
Undead are usually just reanimated corpses by black magic. They are more like fantasy 'robots' or golems. I like the concept of MoM or Dom3 more where they are an aspect of unholy magic.
Vampires are a bit different though, since they usually have their own will and they CAN reproduce.
feargus
Member
posted 02-07-13 04:16 PM EDT (US)     11 / 104       
Undeads are always evil
Well, not on the Discworld...
Draxynnic
Member
posted 02-07-13 04:47 PM EDT (US)     12 / 104       
Yeah, Angel is definitely a special case. There are other examples of undead that aren't evil, though - for instance, the Nehekarans in the Warhammer:Fantasy setting were brought to unlife by a lich's curse, but that lich was interrupted before he could assert control. As a result, the now-undead Nehekarans have much the same outlook as they did in life - those that were evil in life still are, but the same can be said about those who were neutral or good.

Back more on topic, it is an observation of mine that the undead's position in AoW cosmology seems to have been steadily defanged. In AoW1, they were the armies of the abyss - in -2, they were simply the playthings of death wizards who weren't necessarily themselves evil ('alignment' in the AoW2 story generally seemed to have more to do with which races would serve you then what side you were actually on). AoW3, then, could be a case where the magic used to animate them can do so without necessarily turning them evil - although I would hope that the legions of hell from AoW1 do still exist somewhere.
sikbok
VIP
posted 02-07-13 05:02 PM EDT (US)     13 / 104       
You are correct ArkhanTheBlack, I did not follow the series. I'm more of a World of Darkness Vampire fan.


And on the questions above. The current 'which races are in the game' analysis is pretty good, given the screen shots and trailer you've all seen. We have some more fun planned though : )>

>>>Delete Yourself; You've got no chance to win<<<

Atari TeenAge Riot

Tomipapa
Member
posted 02-07-13 05:32 PM EDT (US)     14 / 104       
Anyway, I don't consider undead a 'race' at all. They aren't a 'life form' that can have kids. And what the heck should undead do the whole day? Picking worms from their body? Holding graveyard parties?
Undead are usually just reanimated corpses by black magic. They are more like fantasy 'robots' or golems. I like the concept of MoM or Dom3 more where they are an aspect of unholy magic.
If we see undead as a whole "race" with all the rotten creatures, necromancers ect. i would say they are evil. But yes, you said the truth. A skeleton warrior doesnt have mind, soul, or a heart so it cant be good or evil. If the master command it to kill it will kill, if he command it to water a plant than it surely will. So yes the best would be summonable undeads only, but because in AoW undeads are always a whole race i would prefer the traditional evil ones.But ok we will see how this theocrat or druid undead will work out. It might be so good that my first character will be an undead druid
And on the questions above. The current 'which races are in the game' analysis is pretty good, given the screen shots and trailer you've all seen. We have some more fun planned though : )>
"Crossing his fingers for Frostlings"

Oh one more question. Are the unique leader untis have different stats if i play another race? I mean a goblin martyr has the same stats(attack, healt, damage ect.) as a human martyr or they keep their racial bonuses and have different stats?

[This message has been edited by Tomipapa (edited 02-07-2013 @ 06:22 PM).]

balance11
Member
posted 02-08-13 00:58 AM EDT (US)     15 / 104       
I think that having /slightly/ less races wouldn't be an issue if they can be added lately. The most important thing is to make them individual with unique character, strengths and weaknesses.

Concerning the undead I agree with Tomipapa. I'm a bit wary abut innovations like 'zombie-angels', undead archons, goblin-elf half-breeds, and so on. AOW's innovations in fantasy world always were balanced and organic, so let us hope they will proceed that way further.

[This message has been edited by balance11 (edited 02-08-2013 @ 00:59 AM).]

TravisII
Member
posted 02-08-13 01:57 AM EDT (US)     16 / 104       
I'm not worried about the mixtures such as undead-angels etc. I think it could bring a fresh perspective on fantasy and lore. As others have said, an Undead being with good intentions is not utterly unheard of...

#7373DE for Humans #EFB573 for Azracs #4AA58C for Lizard Men #9CC6E7 for Frostlings |SM|> #E4ED38 #EBEBEB #CC2D29 #CC29D5
#6BB54A for Elves #EFE773 for Halflings #D6AD8C for Dwarves #EFEFDE for High Men |SM|> #DE8EA4 #F09245 #D2BE92 #BDBDE8 #558CDD
#B563BD for Dark Elves #F74242 for Orcs #BD7352 for Goblins #947B73 for The Undead |SM|> #1DDB38 #83795A #2CAAA4 #AC762A
Colors for AoW1 and AoWSM **A Proud Member of the Unofficial Patch Team!** ~2010 AoWSM PBEM Singles Champion~ http://blog.noblemaster.com/
Leonaru
Member
posted 02-08-13 08:39 AM EDT (US)     17 / 104       
I expect:
Humans
Elves
Dwarfes
Goblins
Orcs
Undead
Halfings
Frostlings (we need one snow-based race)

I can see these being in as well:
Archons (maybe not as a full race)
Draconians
Dark Elves
Lizards (because everyone loves them. Mostly)

I don't expect:
Tigrans
Nomads
Shadow Demons
Syrons
Azcrac
PawelS
Member
posted 02-08-13 09:15 AM EDT (US)     18 / 104       
I agree that we need a snow race, but this applies to a desert race as well - Azracs or something similar (these races can be released as DLC).

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
IMPSOLARIVS
Member
posted 02-08-13 09:17 AM EDT (US)     19 / 104       
It is said that the Archons have become the Undead, the one their fought. I have to say goodbye to those graceful and serious guys. I still prefer to call them by their original name - Highman.

Die Partei hat immer Recht.
bam65
Member
posted 02-08-13 09:32 AM EDT (US)     20 / 104       
I wouldn't expect to see lizardmen AND draconians, they're too close to being the same.
PawelS
Member
posted 02-08-13 09:38 AM EDT (US)     21 / 104       
The Undead Archons is quite an interesting idea, it reminds me of the Scions of Patria, present in some Fall From Heaven modmods (for those who don't know what I'm talking about: Fall From Heaven is a mod for Civilization 4).

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
balance11
Member
posted 02-08-13 12:05 PM EDT (US)     22 / 104       
.. and yes, Frostlings / Azracs / Lizardmen (i e snow / desert / swamp races) are definitely welcome, some of them possibly as DLC.

Continuing the 'undead archon' disscussion: my humble question to developers:

Would AOW-3 be flexible enough to allow a conservative one (like me) to avoid all that heretic zombie-angel stuff? At least in single scenarios / multiplayer? Can I obtain a kind of classical set of units / races like AOW-1 by setting starting conditions, like leader type or something else? I think it could be a good solution - to give player a choice.
bam65
Member
posted 02-08-13 02:25 PM EDT (US)     23 / 104       
I don't mind stepping outside conventional boundaries like with undead angels(or whatever) as long as there's a difference between them and say...goblin angels? But if these classes(?) like angels are all just going to be the same no matter what the race I don't see the point.
PawelS
Member
posted 02-08-13 02:38 PM EDT (US)     24 / 104       
I suppose these units will get some racial abilities and modifiers to stats.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
ArkhanTheBlack
Member
posted 02-08-13 02:39 PM EDT (US)     25 / 104       
Actually a zombie angel isn't exactly new, but it's usually called a fallen angel or an angel of death. Though normally it's pretty evil.

In general I support the idea that every 'race' can be good, neutral or evil, but I think they shouldn't get overboard and ignore the character of a race. A goblin 'lawfull good' angel is something that goes a bit too much against the 'style' of the race I think. Good Goblins should be more chaotic, kind of koboldish like the halflings race in AOW2, with some wild fairy stuff and such.

The only realistic undead 'race' I could imagine would be something like the Calabim in FFH2, a human nation ruled by a vampire aristocracy. They could definitely be good with some kind of children of the night theme. Dark angels in gothic look that belong to a moon cult instead of the sun, kind of like the Night Elves in Warcraft. They would be the keepers of the night, while the normal angels are keepers of the light. Examples would be Selene (Kate Beckinsale) in the Underworld movie or Suigintou of the Rozen Maiden anime.

What I really don't want to see are undead angels of light:
Undead angel of light: "Oh, my fellow brethren, watch my holy light!"
Undead followers: WOOOOOOSSSSHHHHHH (Crumble to dust)
Undead angel of light: "WTF???... Oops, I've forgotten that light kills them..."
Tomipapa
Member
posted 02-08-13 03:34 PM EDT (US)     26 / 104       
I don't mind stepping outside conventional boundaries like with undead angels(or whatever) as long as there's a difference between them and say...goblin angels? But if these classes(?) like angels are all just going to be the same no matter what the race I don't see the point.
From Lennart Sas:
Class units are built out of the raceís base mesh + class appearance + any enchantment fx.Functionally they inherit their raceís base abilities and stats. Class unitsí clothes are also branded with player ID coloring to match the appearance your empire, giving a consistent look throughout.

So a goblin angel wont have the same stats as a human angel. Really good news
Devon_
Member
(id: Lord Devon)
posted 02-08-13 04:10 PM EDT (US)     27 / 104       
Azracs are toast for good, got 'conned out in AoW2. Their god destroyed them for good.

"I have curly pubic hair. If I don't gel it down, it puffs up into a miniature afro and looks rediculous." -Kman
Beren V
Member
posted 02-08-13 04:32 PM EDT (US)     28 / 104       
Azracs are not toast for good; they came back in AoWSM having hybridized with Humans to become the Nomads.

I think we can be pretty certain of a return of all of the staple Tolkienian races, including the High Men/Archons, plus a few other familiar races, and probably some new races. I'd further predict that the Frostlings are one of the non-Tolkienian races that are less likely to disappear.

-Heir to Beleriand, Heir to the Silmaril, Chosen of Illuvatar-

GM of the Glory of the Past Middle Earth Roleplay Thread

Creator of the New Keepers Campaign
Tomipapa
Member
posted 02-08-13 06:18 PM EDT (US)     29 / 104       
from the official forum:
The Archons suffered an ironic fate: what they fought, they have become.

For me that means no archons will be in AoW 3. This would explain the undead bone giant wearing greek/roman like armor.
ArkhanTheBlack
Member
posted 02-08-13 06:37 PM EDT (US)     30 / 104       
So the undead in AOW3 are kind of Ermor Broken/Ashen Empire in Dom3?

Hmm, I hope they come up with a believable story for this...
Leonaru
Member
posted 02-09-13 08:22 AM EDT (US)     31 / 104       
I can see the undead being the remains of the archons on the Blessed Continent, whereas the uncorrupted majority has moved back to heaven (?). It would fit, as the archons had two shticks: Fighting undead and bringing the Age of Humans. Now that the humans are in charge, they should also do the job of fighting the undead.
hatifnat
Member
posted 02-09-13 09:45 AM EDT (US)     32 / 104       
My only worry is whether the new leader-related units (goblin crusaders & angels) will make the races feel less unique... Has it been clarified if all units will be influenced by the leader or just some of them?
On the other hand Angel Glutton would finally address some really old suggestions;-)

@Leonaru: Basing on the name of this picture I think Archons may be leaders now - not a separate race. It would explain good Roman-resembling Undead, but would leave room for classic pure evil ones as well...

Swimming out with the open sea... Like the great wild herring...

[This message has been edited by hatifnat (edited 02-09-2013 @ 09:51 AM).]

vicbrother
Member
posted 02-09-13 11:18 AM EDT (US)     33 / 104       
The races from AoW:SM were ok: Every landscape with a good and an evil race is a good concept.

But please: The halflings were too weak! I my opinion it needs more abillities like carmouflage in all terrains and abillities in far fight. Take a look in MoM: Halflingsrush with slingers was a good strategy there.
TravisII
Member
posted 02-09-13 01:26 PM EDT (US)     34 / 104       
Halflings - simply not a warring race...

#7373DE for Humans #EFB573 for Azracs #4AA58C for Lizard Men #9CC6E7 for Frostlings |SM|> #E4ED38 #EBEBEB #CC2D29 #CC29D5
#6BB54A for Elves #EFE773 for Halflings #D6AD8C for Dwarves #EFEFDE for High Men |SM|> #DE8EA4 #F09245 #D2BE92 #BDBDE8 #558CDD
#B563BD for Dark Elves #F74242 for Orcs #BD7352 for Goblins #947B73 for The Undead |SM|> #1DDB38 #83795A #2CAAA4 #AC762A
Colors for AoW1 and AoWSM **A Proud Member of the Unofficial Patch Team!** ~2010 AoWSM PBEM Singles Champion~ http://blog.noblemaster.com/
Narvek
VIP
posted 02-09-13 02:11 PM EDT (US)     35 / 104       
Small note about the 'angels': They're not actually angels, technically.

Yes, they have wings, but they're Exalted (see the released concept art).

Exalted means:
1. Elevated in rank, character, or status.

So it's really those who are the most avid followers, the most fervent fanatics or the most devout.

Maybe it doesn't make much of a difference but to me personally it would: angels are beings of a different order entirely. Beings of spirit and light. Exalted are basically one form of 'elite' and that needn't be positive and/or enlightened. They're just elevated (and, incidentally, even fly).


Greetings,
NARVEK
hatifnat
Member
posted 02-09-13 04:49 PM EDT (US)     36 / 104       
Thanks for the comments Narvek. Can you confirm if my assumptions regarding Archon being a leader type are correct?

Also, when do you think the number of races will be officially announced?

cheers,
borat321
Member
posted 02-09-13 06:06 PM EDT (US)     37 / 104       
So, no archron/highmen? Was one of my fav races.
balance11
Member
posted 02-09-13 09:17 PM EDT (US)     38 / 104       
It seems the Elfs now are going to be very much alike former archons / highmen. Notice that toll men in white and also the following phrase from the announcement: 'Court of the High Elves, founded after the reunion of the Dark Elves and Wood Elves'. So in deed the last two fractions are gone, not the highmen.
Raffa50
Member
posted 02-10-13 04:09 AM EDT (US)     39 / 104       
i'm happy if there where aow:SM races...
i don't think that aow 3 need new races...
(maybe magma race... monsters made of lava, or thecnos = robots)
vicbrother
Member
posted 02-10-13 04:49 AM EDT (US)     40 / 104       
Animal people with centaur, minotaur,... would be nice in the woods.

Two races for the sea with penalties in the desert would be cool too.
Tomipapa
Member
posted 02-10-13 05:13 AM EDT (US)     41 / 104       
And what if they called archons as always but they are undead now?
Also yes a Beastman like race would be great like in MoM. But only for a dlc or expansion because AoW has awesome races on its own already
Narvek
VIP
posted 02-10-13 05:52 AM EDT (US)     42 / 104       
Hi hatifnat,

Just a quick reaction: Archon isn't a Leader type, no.

As for when we will announce all races... well, no idea really, but there will be less (to begin with!) than in the previous games.


Greetings,
NARVEK

[This message has been edited by Narvek (edited 02-10-2013 @ 05:54 AM).]

Tomipapa
Member
posted 02-10-13 11:41 AM EDT (US)     43 / 104       
What do you guys think which race is this(the right one)It surely some kind of reptilian so maybe the draconians are also in
Tomipapa
Member
posted 02-15-13 02:30 PM EDT (US)     44 / 104       
Only 6 races at the beginning!

First i asked if its true because on the somethingawful forum Gerblyn( a programer working on AoW 3) said it
Then on the official forum Narvek replied:
Yup itís legitimate ^^
http://www.ageofwonders.com/aow3live/topic/aow3-races/page/3/

So no draconians, frostlings or halfings at the start
balance11
Member
posted 02-15-13 03:29 PM EDT (US)     45 / 104       
I think 6 races is a wise decision:

1. When the devs have the first feedback, they would adjust 6 races before / along with introducing others. It's better than deal with 10 or 15, right?

2. 6 is enough to start with. While waiting for DLCs the community will have more space for forecasts, expectations, discussions and all we are doing here now And when some new race is finally added it would be like one more holiday for fans.

BTW isn't the number of races equal to the number of classes? It's kind of a speculation, but I see some conformity between them:
warlord - orcs
rogue - goblins
technocrat - dwarves
druid - elfs
theocrat - humans (correlates with their imperial role)
wizard - undead? (see that skeletal figure in wizard's artwork)

[This message has been edited by balance11 (edited 02-15-2013 @ 03:56 PM).]

Leonaru
Member
posted 02-16-13 03:31 AM EDT (US)     46 / 104       
Well, I guess I'll just wait a year anyway and then get the game's complete edition.
Draxynnic
Member
posted 02-16-13 04:08 AM EDT (US)     47 / 104       
Here's a crazy thought that struck me earlier today. I'm not sure I think this is something I actually want to happen, but it could certainly fit the evidence (namely, that we've seen signs of both orcs and draconians):

In Age of Wonders 1, orcs worshiped red dragons. In Age of Wonders 2, this link appears to have been lost with the red dragons moving to join their draconian kin and orcs got the Gluttons instead - a creature that has received mixed reviews at best. What if by the time of Age of Wonders 3 the dragons recultivated their former relationship with the orcs, bringing both the orcs and draconians under their wings as one faction?

If this was the case, this would generate the following list of races, which would cover most if not all of what we've identified so far:

Humans
Elves (unified)
Dwarfs
Goblins (including trolls)
Orcs (including draconians)
Undead (including former archons)
ArkhanTheBlack
Member
posted 02-16-13 04:27 AM EDT (US)     48 / 104       
So that's pretty much 5 races since Orcs and Goblins are almost identical. Actually, I hoped for some more unique race like the Tyrani...um Shadow Demons, Beastmen (nothing beats a cool minotaur) or Lizards/Draconian. Well, maybe it's possible to mod Goblins to something cooler like Gnolls or Beastmen.
Acheron
Member
posted 02-16-13 10:20 AM EDT (US)     49 / 104       
What about the Avian race hinted at in the Christmas teaser? That could be our missing neutral race...

My Guess:

good:
-Elves
-Dwarves

netural:
-Humans
-Avian (with a tier 4 cockatrice)

evil:
-Goblins
-Dark elves

State based units
-Undead


The elven court:
elves, dwarves, and darkelves.

The consortium:
humans, goblins, avian.

[This message has been edited by Acheron (edited 02-16-2013 @ 08:05 PM).]

naecO
Member
posted 02-16-13 10:48 AM EDT (US)     50 / 104       
There won't be Halflings to start with? That's very sad sad news!!! I love the Centaurs and Leprechauns! The game is just too weird without them. They are a classic race of epic fantasy genre. The idea of delivering them in DLC is not wise IMO. Without the Halflings, AOW3 would look incomplete. And DLC only means providing additional contents, it does not mean complete the missing parts of the game!

In general, I do not like the idea of adding more races in DLC unless the race is brand-new or something like "The comeback of the lizards". Otherwise, people will have the feeling that they buy an incomplete game.


Tired of manually receiving/sending your PBEM turns everyday ? Try out Dave's PBEM Wrapper!
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