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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW3: General Discussion & suggestions » [EXPANSION] Golden Realms
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Topic Subject:[EXPANSION] Golden Realms
nvc_for_the_soul
Member
posted 08-22-14 05:22 AM EDT (US)         
In case you missed it: Golden Realms Expansion is announced with Halflings, Empire Quests, New victory conditions and lots of other new and improved stuff.

http://ageofwonders.com/golden-realms-expansion-announced/
AuthorReplies:
Queen Jenny the Mediocre
Member
(id: neo222)
posted 08-22-14 08:26 PM EDT (US)     1 / 12       
Looks like they're going for multiple relatively small bits of DLC. Not the model I was hoping they'd follow, although I suppose I can accept it if it's cheap...

I could move to a small town, and become a waitress...
PawelS
Member
posted 08-23-14 04:45 AM EDT (US)     2 / 12       
Well, one race + one campaign + some other new stuff is not that small, there are games where it gets much smaller...

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
Queen Jenny the Mediocre
Member
(id: neo222)
posted 08-23-14 06:19 AM EDT (US)     3 / 12       
It's not bad as DLCs go. In terms of the amount of content, it's certainly no more than, for example, the DLC you get for Fallout New Vegas. Like I suggested, it really comes down to how much it costs. 5 DLCs, each with just a single race, for 5 each is a bit excessive and would beg the question, why weren't they included in the first place. It would suggest that they deliberately released a nerfed (for lack of a better term) game. Which is hardly an ethical business model.

I could move to a small town, and become a waitress...

[This message has been edited by Insincere Endorsement (edited 08-23-2014 @ 06:20 AM).]

COCONUTKNIGHT
Member
posted 08-23-14 08:31 AM EDT (US)     4 / 12       
That's an easy accusation to make, but the counter to that is that perhaps this is stuff that they decided to create once the initial game went. Also, judging that from April to September we get one new race + dwelling, I'm inclined to think that there is a 6 month turn around for each new thing/dlc.


Furthermore, apparently they started work on AoW3 sometime in 2010, so by that logic, to get your "full" game we would have been waiting until 2017 (for 12 races).



I would say we should be embracing this model, because they released a very solid initial offering, and the feedback from fans directly informs how the expansions work, but to get feedback you need to release the thing in the first place.

Take an old, dirty, hungry, mangy, sick and wet dog and feed him and wash him and nurse him back to health, and he will never turn on you and bite you.

This is how man and dog differ.
Queen Jenny the Mediocre
Member
(id: neo222)
posted 08-23-14 01:43 PM EDT (US)     5 / 12       
I know you're not being literal, but you can't equate each race to a certain amount of time taken to produce it as we're not privy to how and when the races in this game were produced. It's certainly not a simple equation of each race = 6 months production time. The halfling race could have already been made months ago (before the game ever went on sale). You're right in that it may have been decided to create a halfling race after the game was released, but I honestly can't imagine Triumph thinking that short term. Also I think it it's unlikely that in the 4 years that it took to produce the game, that creating races took up that much time compared to everything else involved.

Furthermore, there's a difference between releasing a full-game, a 'standard game' and a game lacking in content. Fallout New Vegas is an example of a 'standard game'. Although there is DLC, there is enough content in NV that it's still a perfectly decent game which doesn't feel like the developer's skimped out. The DLC is extra, but it's not necessary and it can easily stand alone without it. The 'Game of the Year' version is, I guess, the 'full' game.

AoW conversely in its vanilla form is, I'm afraid to say, IMO a game lacking in content. Heck, I even said that this game was screaming out for extra content in my Steam review.

I could move to a small town, and become a waitress...

[This message has been edited by Insincere Endorsement (edited 08-23-2014 @ 01:55 PM).]

PawelS
Member
posted 08-23-14 03:01 PM EDT (US)     6 / 12       
I don't think there is anything "unethical" in selling "incomplete" games as long as the company doesn't lie about the content of the game. If you know what you're buying, then it's OK for me, regardless if the DLC content is ready at the time of release or later.

Having said that, I don't like the DLC model that is dominant in the gaming industry lately, but it's not because of ethical reasons. It's because I think that dividing the game into small pieces is not good for its integrity, and causes problems with multiplayer gaming, modding etc. So a few big expansions is better than dozens of small DLCs.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.
vota dc
Member
posted 08-23-14 08:07 PM EDT (US)     7 / 12       
This expansion introduce the luck mechanic.
If they introduce the anti-luck mechanic (chance to hit = anti-luck - luck) we have old combat back.
Then we just need true fly mechanic.

Micronazione Impero
ArkhanTheBlack
Member
posted 08-24-14 11:14 AM EDT (US)     8 / 12       
It doesn't look like the expansion will change anything about the soulless bland races. And the halflings were always my least popular race in AoW2, mainly because they looked like bunch of clowns. I think I'll pass on the expansion, though I might give it a try if a Steam sale comes along.
Sunicle
Member
posted 08-25-14 03:43 AM EDT (US)     9 / 12       
Even if you give the expansion a pass you'll see a difference to your game from the free update that is on the way and planned for release simultaneously with the expansion.

Graphics have been tweaked, structures, units, even unit abilities have been added. Only the stuff that was made from scratch you'll have to pay for.

With the Seals of Power - part of the actual expansion - you'll have different gameplay opportunities. You can win by gaining victory points from holding seals; you don't need to be a bully and kick other players off the map to win the game anymore. You've become free in your diplomacy; you can be a mister nice guy and not being punished for it anymore.
This will be very important for some players, depending on favoured style of play.
Queen Jenny the Mediocre
Member
(id: neo222)
posted 08-25-14 12:05 PM EDT (US)     10 / 12       
You can win by gaining victory points from holding seals; you don't need to be a bully and kick other players off the map to win the game anymore.
But wouldn't other players come and try to kick you off the map if you're holding seals?
I don't think there is anything "unethical" in selling "incomplete" games as long as the company doesn't lie about the content of the game. If you know what you're buying, then it's OK for me, regardless if the DLC content is ready at the time of release or later.
Did Triumph ever say that they were selling an 'incomplete' game, or something along those lines?

I suppose 30 is relatively cheap for a new game nowadays, so maybe that was the intention all along?

I could move to a small town, and become a waitress...
Sunicle
Member
posted 08-26-14 06:12 AM EDT (US)     11 / 12       
But wouldn't other players come and try to kick you off the map if you're holding seals?
Yes, I would count on that, at least in the case of human opposition. The victory point progression can be followed, so others can see you gathering points and they would get alarmed. You could be forced into a defensive playstyle.

The AI will likely understand less of the new victory condition.
PawelS
Member
posted 08-29-14 03:09 AM EDT (US)     12 / 12       
Did Triumph ever say that they were selling an 'incomplete' game, or something along those lines?

I suppose 30 is relatively cheap for a new game nowadays, so maybe that was the intention all along?
I didn't mean that they should have admitted that the game was incomplete. If you can play a game and win it, it's technically complete, you can feel that it's incomplete because it's missing some features you would like to see in it, but it's your subjective opinion. What I meant is that they shouldn't advertise features that don't really exist in the game they're selling - if you know that the game you're buying has 6 races, 6 classes, two campaigns and so on, I can't find anything unethical in it. Also it was known long ago that there probably would be DLCs, so it's not a surprise. If they had some extra content ready at the release date or not is irrelevant for me, as they are not obligated to sell everything they have immediately.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

[This message has been edited by PawelS (edited 08-29-2014 @ 03:17 AM).]

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