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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW2/SM Mod Making » Brave New World v3.2 Available for Download!
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Topic Subject:Brave New World v3.2 Available for Download!
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Kirky Picardo
Member
posted 04-01-08 01:05 PM EDT (US)         

Update: nvc_for_the_soul has created an excellent PDF file listing the stats and abilities of all the buildable units for each of the races. It is available in the downloads section or you can just click here .

Hopefully this is something which will be appreciated not only by those who are already familiar with the mod, but new people who may be thinking of trying it as well.

Thanks a lot, mate!

NOTE: A new Update for Brave New World (BNW 3.2) is now available. It requires previous installation of UPatch 1.4, BNW 2.0 and BNW 3.0 Beta.

You can download the BNW 3.2 update by clicking on the link below:

Click here to download BNW 3.2 Update

Alternatively, if you don't like waiting or deciphering mystical codes, thanks to Iskatu Mesk you can also download the update here. Thanks mate!

The rest of this post was written in regards to the Beta version, but may still be of some interest to newer people who have not yet tried the mod.



Kirky

Greetings,

I have decided to release a beta version of BNW 3.0. Everything is not finished yet, but after such a long time working on it, I felt that enough is finished that I should make it available for those who may be interested.

DOWNLOADING THE MOD

BNW v3.0 Beta is a very large file (696mb zipped) and requires that both BNW 2.0 and UPatch 1.4 are already installed on your computer. When you install this new version of BNW it will overwrite some older ILBs with improved, newer versions. So it is important that BNW 2.0 be installed prior to installing this version. If you install BNW 2.0 after installing BNW 3.0 beta, you will overwrite some new versions of ILBs with old ones, which is something we don't want.

So if you have fullfilled these requirements, you can download Brave New World v3.0 Beta by selecting the link below:

Click here to download BNW v3.0 Beta

Thanks to Iskatu Mesk for making this available on his webspace!

A GREAT NEW MAP!

After you have installed the update, I would very much recommend you head on over to the scenario section of the downloads page and get:


Roger has really knocked himself out on this map and it is stunning. It features beautiful landscapes, fantastic events and stuff you have never seen before! The map is a true masterpiece and I would really like to thank Roger for all his effort in making it. I hope some of you who download the map will also consider taking the time to post a comment there thanking Roger for the wonderful job he has done.

Three Cheers for Roger the Rampant!!!

INSTALLING THE MOD

To install BNW 3.0 simply unzip and run. Then run AoWSM Setup and make the sure the custom resources box is checked, then select BNW 3.0 from the list.

BNW changes the names of some things in game such as races, spells etc., and puts in a BNW title screen. This will be done automatically the first time you install the mod. When you want the normal stuff back in, open your main Shadow Magic folder and run "Disable BNW 3 Extras". When you want the BNW stuff in run "Enable BNW 3 Extras". You can do this as often as needed. One puts in the BNW stuff, the other puts back the normal stuff.

That's it! You are now ready to play, and in this version you no longer have to load and save maps to play them, and you should even be able to play the campaign if you wish.

Special Thanks to PawelS for his Resource.ahr validating program which makes it so you don't have to load and save maps.

Here are some of the features included in this new version:

NEW RACES

The mod now features five new races: Arabians, Asgardians, Immortals, Morlocks and Zulians.

Special thanks to Iskatu Mesk for helping out by writing excellent descriptions for most of the new races.

RE-MADE RACES

As well as new races, the old races that are still used have been re-made and are really like new races as well. How this is done differs somewhat from race to race. For example, Dwarves have new units, but they also still retain most of their default units from the original game (with modified skills and stats). Other races such as Dark Elves have been completely redone.

So you will have to check this out for yourself, but I don't think it's inaccurate for me to say that nearly all the races are like new.

UPGRADED UNITS

Level one and two units for each race can now be upgraded to advanced units at gold medal. This a feature I really love, and feel adds tremendously to gameplay.

I expect this is something that will used to some degree in nearly all mods, and I would like to thank TurboBeholder who discovered how to do this. It was a great discovery and addition to the game. Also thanks to DimaGromyko who I believe first discovered how to mask the changeling ability. I need to also thank my friend, Merkraad, who wrote an excellent guide on this subject which he sent me long ago and has since been posted in the forums and in the modding wiki.

NEW HEROES

It wouldn't be BNW if it didn't feature many new heroes. And this version more than doubles the number of heroes from 2.0!

BNW heroes are advanced and don't all necessarily adhere to a rigid class-based system. I often find that in my opinion at least, such rigid systems often relegate heroes of certain classes to more or less subclasses. And the heroes of these classes can often feel like they are of a much lower level than other classes. So in BNW I try to make all heroes good, and while there are differences in the various hero classes based on a number of factors, there is not a large overall gap between the quality of the heroes classes. All are good.

I think I should mention that while there are five classes of heroes in shadow magic, many BNW heroes don't fall into one particular class, but are more like mixed classes and you have Ranger/Clerics, Fighter/Thieves, Warrior/Priests and so on...

Also, in this version of BNW heroes start with slightly less stats than previous versions. So you will have to be extra careful with them, especially in the early stages of a game. If you do take care and use them wisely, then they will become the mighty champions and true heroes they are meant to be!

All BNW heroes use a high quality unique body graphic and have wonderful portraits. I hope that all will have their own individual stories before I am done as well. Many do, but there is still work to be done in this area.

I think BNW heroes are very special, and if you play the mod, there's a chance you may think so too.

Many new wizards have also been added and some extra ones are included.

NEW UNITS

It probably isn't necessary to also mention new units after already talking about the new races etc. However, as well as new units for each race, there are also many new additional units that appear as independents, as I like to use a lot of these for recruitment structures, quest rewards, guards and so on... Generally, I just like having a wide variety of stuff while playing. So you can expect to see all kinds of new units in this version, with everything from animals to mad ogres and even occasional sci-fi stuff which I know some really enjoy, heh.

RACIAL SHIPS

A long time ago a couple of guys by the names of cowboys94 and RMX suggested racial ships for BNW. Well..it took a while (like three years,heh), but this new version has racial ships. They are in the editor now but are not yet available in shipyards as I have not yet finalized their stats/costs or which ship goes to which race. I also haven't decided yet if they will replace the default generic ships or if each race just gets an additional unique ship. However, in this beta version you can check them out in the editor and place them on maps if you wish.

So anyway, I doubt you guys are still playing this game, but thanks for the suggestions!

NEW MAP STRUCTURES

BNW 2.0 added some nice new map structures and 2.5 (which I imagine most people will never of seen as it was never available in the downloads section) included many more. There are some nice new ones in this version as well and more will be in the final version.

SPELLS & ABILITIES

There have been various additional tweaks and adjustments in these areas as well as some new summon spells. A couple I really like are the Headless Horseman with his firebombs that stun and the frost-blowing magical Snowman!

You will also see more units with advanced skills like Marksmanship V, Leadership IV etc. These type of things are often given at gold medal, but also to units where I just think it fits.

Special thanks to PawelS and his excellent uniteditor2 program which allows mod-makers to give advanced abilities to units.

MAP COMPATIBILITY

The mod was made to be as compatible as possible with maps made for the default rules, with thought and care given to how changes would affect playing maps. This not only includes the actual changes or additions the mod makes, but also the method in which they were made.

For example, different sections of the editor you have to be careful with. In some areas it may be fine to do things a certain way (delete and replace, cut and paste etc.), but in other areas this may not be a good idea, especially if you want people to play normal maps with your mod. If the mod is not designed to be compatible with maps then it may not be as much of a problem. However, With BNW I do want people to be able to play maps, and so I try as much as I can to do things in ways which will work well in general, but also work well with maps.

However, that being said, BNW is a mod and not a patch, and when you play a map with it things are meant to be different. Also there's a limit to how much compatibility I can have, and still have the mod be what I want it to be.

In BNW 2.0 when you played maps any custom heroes the map-maker included continued to use the default generic rider graphics. Well I decided to change that and in this version a unique body graphic will be used as the default for the various classes of heroes of each race. Now these won't always match very well tcustom portraits that map-makers may of included for their heroes. However, this was inevitable with the new races, and there is no point keeping the default generic riders in my mod any more.

Likewise, while one can change the text in game (Frostlings become Asgardians etc.), this doesn't affect text that map-makers add to their maps. So text in maps will often still refer to things from the normal game and not BNW.

In terms of actual gameplay, while there are many changes, we do try and keep the basic structure of the game intact. And when I put new units in, I keep in mind the unit it is replacing. So you won't have things like a level four Dark Elf unit being put in a slot used by a level two Archon unit etc.

Now that being said, there are a very few instances where to have complete compatibility with maps, comes into conflict with what I feel is best for my mod. And in these cases I choose what's best for my mod over compatibility with maps.

An example of this is Zulian heroes. Zulians replace Draconians in this version of BNW, and any maps which have Draconian heroes will now have Zulian heroes in their place. This, of course, is how it should be in a mod where a race is replaced by another. If Draconian heroes appeared as heroes from some other race other than the one which replaces them...well, that would be a problem.

The thing is, while Draconian heroes have floating, Zulian heroes do not, and this has the possibility of causing a conflict with maps where Draconian heroes may be required to float around the map in areas not accessible by walking. In fact, if a Draconian hero is placed on lava on a map for example, when you went to play that map with BNW that hero would not appear.

Now I have no idea how many maps like this exist. I suspect very few, possibly even none. However, it does illustrate the point that while I have tried to make my mod as compatible as possible with maps, it is a mod which makes many changes, and in some rare instances these changes may adversely affect the playability of a particular map.

In general though, I think that you will not have many problems playing maps made for default rules with BNW. If you enjoy BNW, and it is a good map, then you will enjoy playing that map with BNW.

WRAPPING IT UP

Let me end by saying that this is a beta version, and of course that means it is not completely finished. Many units still need new descriptions and some still use old ones and in game text still needs to be changed in more areas for example. There are things I just haven't gotten to yet, and there will undoubtedly be many changes and additions in the final version. However I believe most things are setup well and there should not be significant bugs or oddities in the mod.

I plan to try to hopefully release a final version before too long and if you would like to offer suggestions or perhaps even help out a bit by possibly writing a unit description or two, please send an e-mail to:

Capt_Kirk_Picard@hotmail.com

Adios!

Kirky

[This message has been edited by Kirky Picardo (edited 07-09-2013 @ 04:15 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Merkraad
Member
posted 04-01-08 02:46 PM EDT (US)     1 / 792       
Hi Kirk

Just wanted to say congrats my friend!

Artist, Sorcerer, Monk and AoW Series fan
Proud citizen of BRASIL \o/ |o/ \o| \o/ |o| /o/ \o/
Blog with some art
www.the-battlefield.com ex-member with fond memories:Battlefield Player of the year 2003;Battlefield Winner of 4 Tourneys;Battlefield Winner of AoW league 2004
Proud owner of an AoW SM poster signed by Devs!
Please try the fantastic BNW Mod made by my friend Kirky Picardo! The best AoW:SM Mod!
IskatuMesk
Member
posted 04-01-08 05:17 PM EDT (US)     2 / 792       
Hello gentlemen! A great release indeed, but pando is extremely slow in transferring. once I have the file I shall mirror it on my own webspace which should be much faster for future downloads.

edit - And now Pando says it's unavailable.

edit 2 - Woooot, finally finished! Uploading right away.

edit 3 -

ALTERNATE DOWNLOAD LOCATION

www.doack.campaigncreations.org/BNW_v3.0_Beta.zip

Enjoy!

[This message has been edited by IskatuMesk (edited 04-02-2008 @ 01:20 AM).]

Kirky Picardo
Member
posted 04-02-08 08:38 AM EDT (US)     3 / 792       
Merk!

Thanks, my friend. Send me an e-mail when you can to let me know how you are doing!



IskatuMesk!

Thanks for putting this on your webspace. I was online last night with a friend and he had started downloading the mod with Pando when he got an error. He was using an old version of Pando and I was telling him to update it when I saw you had made the mod available on your webspace. So I gave him the link and we were chatting for 10-15 mins or so and then...voila! He had the file!

So we got to play a bit and test some things I wasn't sure about like loading multi-player saves. It went well!

My friend said he will send you a fruitcake for christmas, hehe.

Cheers!

Kirky

[This message has been edited by Kirky Picardo (edited 04-02-2008 @ 08:39 AM).]

The Groll
Member
posted 04-02-08 01:39 PM EDT (US)     4 / 792       
Congratulation Kirky!

You are a driver of AoWSM pushing this game to new limits!
My deepest respect for working so hard on this BNW project.

I donīt like mods a lot because of the changes of gameplay and the incompatiblity of maps. Furthermore I often donīt like the quality of some things in mods but I have downloaded BNW 2.0 and installed it and feel in love with some units.
I loved much stuff from from BNW 2.0.
I hope to see much more new things in BNW 3.0.
Ia am too busy this days and donīt want a fast sneak into 3.0 beta. If I download it I will spend time checking it and for sure loving it.
Maybe itīs time to make a map for it too.
Also, in this version of BNW heroes start with slightly less stats than previous versions. So you will have to be extra careful with them, especially in the early stages of a game. If you do take care and use them wisely, then they will become the mighty champions and true heroes they are meant to be!
Does this mean that you can have heros with for example ATT 1, DAM 1, DEF 3, RES 6, MOV 60 or 70 ?
This is what I am seaching for for some of my maps.
The mod was made to be as compatible as possible with maps made for the default rules, with thought and care given to how changes would affect playing maps. This not only includes the actual changes or additions the mod makes, but also the method in which they were made.

This incompatiblity is why I donīt like mods as much as upatches. The reason is that existing events in my maps for example often use ID from units or structures and if this units or structures change in a mod the map becomes damaged in a kind that this events donīt work anymore.
Therefore I would try to let old things as they are and never change them but add more.
Can you explain me/us a little more about this facts in BNW 3.0?
I plan to try to hopefully release a final version before too long and if you would like to offer suggestions or perhaps even help out a bit by possibly writing a unit description or two, please send an e-mail to:
Take time and do not haste. Itīs a fantastic project and we will still be here in a year or two.
Maybe I have time in future to help you a little if you like. Because this is a fan-mod-project and because you (seams so) donīt care much about copyrights of anything I can maybe give you some stuff in future that we canīt add to upatch 1.5.
Thatīs what your mod has as big, big plus!
I would be happy if we would add more stuff but itīs an upatch and no mod.
But for your mod there can be help from my side if you like. The stuff I think about is more than 40-50 MBīs maybe.
Itīs not time to talk about hat now because I am too busy an I am not sure for now.

Again congratulation for pushing it so far and never give up!
I know how it feels if a project becomes hard to finish and how it feels to think it will never become done.
I am waiting and doing my own work but then download your (for sure) fantastic mod.

Let me dream a little. It would be nice to merge upatch and mod power togerter one day - when copyrights are no longer exist and the world becomes a place of anachy
Than maybe we will even push the gamesize of games like crisis

Cheers!
The Groll

AoWSM Maps: 1. Marlenes Welt 2. Marlenes Schatten 3. Marlenes Gnade
Up.1.4 Maps: 4. Secrets of Marlenia (UPatch 1.4 Map - update) 5. Gates of Elocin - Part I (Mapmaking Competition - Winning Map) 6. Davidīs Winter Wonderland 7. Fairy Wedding
8. Marleneīs_Laughter 9. The Gods Arena Of Magic And Power 10. The_Wilderness 11. Kayland (AoW I Mod) 12. Mia-Mina_&_The_Seadrake
11. AoW I Sound Set for AoWSM 12. Gentleman Rules Set
Need Help? The Conqueror's Fieldguide to The Groll's Universe
Proud member of the Upatch 1.4 & 1.5 Team
TruePurple
Member
posted 04-02-08 01:43 PM EDT (US)     5 / 792       
Wow, I thought you had left us, this is really cool. (checks menial HDD space)
Level one and two units for each race can now be upgraded to advanced units at gold medal. This a feature I really love, and feel adds tremendously to gameplay.
You mean they upgrade to more advanced units that are also recruitable from that race directly? I've been considering making a mod that did that very thing.

Is this meant to be done all tactical like previous? Will it work to do it FC like is usually done & needed for larger games?

These new races, they replace old races right? What old races have been replaced by what new race? Or did you find a way to add new races and keep the old ones?

Cool pictures btw.

[This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 04-02-2008 @ 01:46 PM).]

Kirky Picardo
Member
posted 04-03-08 01:27 AM EDT (US)     6 / 792       
Mister Groll!

I have to say seeing your post was one of the nicest surprises I have had here! You know, for some reason when I started to read I thought it was Firegolem who had posted. I have no idea why I thought this. He is someone who I always liked from here (not that I really knew him well), and I know he has helped you with some projects. But then I saw it wasn't Firegolem...it was Mister Groll! I was so surprised! I just assumed you didn't like my mod at all, lol. I know you never said so, but it is just what I thought. It made me sad too because I really like your work a lot. In fact, recently I was admiring the graphic you made for the germany map project and was going to tell you so. But I thought he will just think I am giving him some candy, so he might make a map for my mod, lol.

Anyway, thank you very much for the nice words and all respect back to you for all the hard and great work you do for this game!

I'll try to compose myself and answer the questions you asked now.
Does this mean that you can have heros with for example ATT 1, DAM 1, DEF 3, RES 6, MOV 60 or 70 ?
This is what I am seaching for for some of my maps.
Well, except for the movement, it isn't a problem to add such heroes to a mod. In BNW for example, every hero has his or her own resource, and it's not a case of one resource for all heroes of a particular race and class. So it just be a matter of adding a few resources with those base stats. I don't think you can give more than 50mp in the editor, but someone like PawelS might know how to make that more.

I'd have no problem adding one or two heroes like that to BNW. I would make them higher than level one (level two perhaps), so people wouldn't start with them on random maps, but they would only show up in taverns there. For default maps you'd never see them, unless it was a map made for the mod and the map-maker had purposely placed them on the map. Many BNW heros you actually will never see on maps made for default rules, so if I made a couple heroes like this, it wouldn't be a problem.

You could also make your own small mod for this. This is something people can do, wether it be a modified version of an existing mod or just a small mod made for default rules with some things like this in it. I'd be happy to help with this if you wanted.
This incompatiblity is why I donīt like mods as much as upatches. The reason is that existing events in my maps for example often use ID from units or structures and if this units or structures change in a mod the map becomes damaged in a kind that this events donīt work anymore.
Therefore I would try to let old things as they are and never change them but add more.
Can you explain me/us a little more about this facts in BNW 3.0?
Well...what often happens is someone might decide they want a new resource in an existing resource slot. For example, maybe someone wants a new windmill that gives more gold. So they copy the new windmill into the old windmill slot thinking it will work fine. Unfortunately, all that does is give you a missing resource.

The better way to do this would be to open the old windmill resource and select edit images and change them to point to the new windmill graphic. You can use ctrl-c and ctrl-v here. Then change the money the windmill gives and now you have the new windmill in, but you didn't delete or replace the old one, so it works fine.

The same is true for Heroes and Wizards library. People often copy and paste into existing slots, and shuffle the heroes around like a deck of cards. This just results in complete chaos when you play a map made for default rules.

Now the heroes resources part of the editor is different still. Here you can copy and paste into existing resources, but at the same time, you can't just go arranging these into a new order if you want to be able to play normal maps with the mod. I'd recommend modders leave the default hero resources where they are. You can change them to point to new bodies if wanted or change their base stats, but you can't start moving them around. Better to add new resources for your heroes after these.

There are quite a few other things too that will cause problems. I discovered while making this version that whatever unit is in the slot used by the shadow demon brain needs to have magic relay skill or many maps (Gates of Elocin included) would not even start properly. That one was unexpected and took me a while to find as I had to go through all the races and of course, shadow demons are the last race, heh.

I hope no modders who may of done these type of things take offense. If the mod is not intended for maps made for the normal game it may not be as big a deal anyway. And not all mods have to be for default maps. It is troublesome and there may be good reasons for a mod not to do this. With BNW though I want people to be able to play maps. So I try as much as possible make it so they can play them and I think play them well too.

So let me end by saying thanks again, Mr. Groll. It was a very nice thing for me to see your post. I guess my friend may not be the only one who has to send out extra fruitcakes this christmas!



Kirky

Mister Purple!

My old sparring partner!!

Let's get ready to rumble!!!



The advanced units aren't recruitable. They often have very nasty things. In the preview of a few units you can see an engineer who upgrades into a forge guardian. The forge guardian has increased stats and extra marksmanship, plus fire cannon. At gold medal the fire cannon stuns when hits as well. So he is a real nasty bugger when upgraded and you be invincible if you have a pack of them. Unless of course someone else has a pack of even nastier creeps in which case you wouldn't be as invincible.

Wether it's all tactical is really up to players and maybe always was. Guards are stronger than the normal game on a random map but I think they are in most mods too now really.

The new races replace old ones, yes.

Thank you for the nice and polite comments.

Adios!

Kirky

[This message has been edited by Kirky Picardo (edited 04-03-2008 @ 02:22 AM).]

The Groll
Member
posted 04-03-08 05:40 AM EDT (US)     7 / 792       
Hi Kirky!

Thank you for explaining all this so well and for the flowers about my work.
It realy seams you know what you do and that you try to make your mod as compatible as possible to original or upatch maps.
I wonder a little why you thought I did not like your work.
Itīs only that I donīt like mods a lot because of the incompatible settings. But here you explain very well that you thought about this (windmill and hero examples) and it seams you left the old things as they are.
I like that a lot!
And another reason why you maybe thought is because I never wrote anything about your mod or LotR Project.
I donīt tell people about their work if I have no real knowledge about it. This would be silly and unfair. I canīt give comments if I donīt know exactly of what I am talking And I am always busy with so much AoWSM stuff. I realy hope to finish Marlens Laughter soon.
The Germany MMBEM Project runs slowly but we hope to finish it with the team one day.
But it demands me not to much because the map is often away.
After my Marlenes Laughter map is released I have a little more time - hopefully and I often need to break free and do some grafic work for passion, like the logos in the PBEM games or the logos for the MMBEM Project Germany. Then I also create some new item pictures or simply nice images. So if you ever need some help feel free to ask me.
Btw. Nice Picture too. Do you made it yourself? With tools do you use for it? I made such space pictures too some times ago. Was a nice work.

The reason why I want this 'small and weak' heros is that I want to play games where Item Teleportation is OFF. Why need this special heros than?
My idea is to have hereos that are no powerfull magicans or paladins but very small and weak but fast item transporters for their masters. With item teleportation off it will be difficult to move items from one hero to another but with some item tranporter heros it would be possible. They need to be fast, weak, maybe sometimes invisible, can fly, have nightseeing ability and some other things depends of their race. Elven heros have of courase woodwalking but goblins have dungeoncreeping.
Tehy only shall be small sneakers that fly by and vanish again in the trees but if an enemy catches them they are lost - and the item too. I love such things.
The idea to give them lv 2 is good and shows you have good understanding of the game and itīs technics
For me they can have lv 2 or also lv 20. No real need to level them up but why not. Why not let such a hero try to hit a death reaper that canīt move anymore and level him up to lv 3 to get one more ATT point (useless anyway) or another ability (maybe spellcasting or healing - nice idea).
I have talked to PawelS about this and he said Mov 60 max but with some abilitys like hast they can be very fast item servants for their masters.
Would be fantastic to see such heros some day and it would give the game a new tactical note!

Ahh... The reason why you thought I was Firegolem is maybe because we are both german boys and have a poor english?
Fire Golem has helped me with a modification of Gates of Elocin and he got a reward hero for this. It was a nice work together. He has disapered some time ago and he told my about it before he leave. I was very sad about that but I canīt change it. I miss him too a lot and allways when I open one of my PBEM games I see his email address again. Was nice to work with him. Btw. He made a nice screenshot from my Gates of Elocin map running in your mod I would like to send you that image if you like and I will send it to Swolte too to upload it to the HG main page soon. Itīs just in my folder for upload. It allways reminds me at Firegolem. Ahh... I just see you post your address here. You got an email soon

Sorry for my long postings but it is nice to talk about this project adn finaly to you.
check your email account, please.

AoWSM Maps: 1. Marlenes Welt 2. Marlenes Schatten 3. Marlenes Gnade
Up.1.4 Maps: 4. Secrets of Marlenia (UPatch 1.4 Map - update) 5. Gates of Elocin - Part I (Mapmaking Competition - Winning Map) 6. Davidīs Winter Wonderland 7. Fairy Wedding
8. Marleneīs_Laughter 9. The Gods Arena Of Magic And Power 10. The_Wilderness 11. Kayland (AoW I Mod) 12. Mia-Mina_&_The_Seadrake
11. AoW I Sound Set for AoWSM 12. Gentleman Rules Set
Need Help? The Conqueror's Fieldguide to The Groll's Universe
Proud member of the Upatch 1.4 & 1.5 Team
TruePurple
Member
posted 04-03-08 12:01 PM EDT (US)     8 / 792       
So these units would be found in recruit structures & gotten from quests?

What old races have been replaced by what new ones? (since factors like whether it might start UG in RMG & what land it can crop on remain, even stuff like whether its "draconian" thus dragon slaying bonus applies or not, I think)

[This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 04-03-2008 @ 12:04 PM).]

Timelord
HG Cherub
posted 04-03-08 01:15 PM EDT (US)     9 / 792       
Great news, Kirky! I, for one, can't wait to download this - especially since it is compatible with existing maps. That is, IMO, one of the most thoughtful features added to this mod!

I used the image in your top post for the BNW News item, hope that's ok

2009 1v1-Mapmaking Champion, Former PBEM Singles Champion, Proud contributor to the UPatch 1.4 and 1.5 effort
War of the Twins- 1 vs 1 PBEM map, Too Much Water - 1 vs 1 PBEM map, winner of 2009 1vs1 Mapmaking Challenge
My Dragon Age development blog
Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 04-03-08 07:48 PM EDT (US)     10 / 792       
Wow, this looks very exciting!

Congratulations, Kirky! I can't believe I missed it the last few days. I am going to take a close look this weekend!


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
Kirky Picardo
Member
posted 04-03-08 07:53 PM EDT (US)     11 / 792       
Hi Mister Groll!

Yes I understand your idea about these weak, but fast, heroes. I think of an imp or gremlin who is the slave of an evil wizard. He lurks about and flinches a lot as his master beats him all the time and makes him go on quests to retrieve magical artifacts. Very good stuff for story-driven maps!

I have an imp unit in this new version of BNW. He doesn't belong to any race and just appears here and there in some recruit sites. I could make him a hero and I think he'd be a good slave to Master Thanos of the Morlocks for example.



Maybe UPatch will add some unique heroes. More than just for ones where the race doesn't have that class yet. I don't see any real downside to it. You can make these resources for the special heroes after the normal ones. Then just place the normal resource again after that. So these heroes would be only available for the map-makers who want them. If they are higher than level one they won't show up much on randoms either, but only now and then in a tavern...and that's not bad.

I don't know why I thought you were Firegolem. Maybe just a case of seeing what one expects to see. Firegolem did a lot of nice work here too. I used the program he made for converting the ship units from civ and it worked really well. I also learned to use the coloring program by looking at his scripts and some units he had re-colored. Firegolem made some nice stuff when he was with us!

I am very happy you posted here. I like being wrong now and then, hehe.

I will e-mail you soon!



True Purple!

Tigrans -> Arabians
Frostlings -> Asgardians
Goblins -> Morlocks
Nomads -> Immortals
Draconians -> Zulians

The upgraded guys are sprinkled about a bit in their upgraded form. Sometimes as guards, a few indexes in certain recruitment sites and prisons, but mainly you get them by advancing the base units to gold medal.

Timelord!

Thank you very much for posting that. Two nice surprises in two days now!



Kirky

Edit:

Thanks Swolte. I posted this then saw you sneaked one inbetween, hehe.

Anyway, thanks

Kirky

[This message has been edited by Kirky Picardo (edited 04-03-2008 @ 08:05 PM).]

vampyreking
Member
posted 04-03-08 09:18 PM EDT (US)     12 / 792       
Great News. You are my Hero Kirky.
I thank you for your contribution to the AoW SM community and your dedication to your work. I hope you have some spare time in the future to play some epic BNW games again.

i am the vampyre king i can do anything
TruePurple
Member
posted 04-03-08 11:29 PM EDT (US)     13 / 792       
Well my idea for a mod (and feel free to rip this off for BNW)

Each level recruitable unit upgrades next level, up to level 3.

So for example, a pikeman recruitable at barracks, upgrading to a calvary (with polearm) also recruitable at war hall which upgrades to a knight which is also recruitable at champion guild.


Most all the upgrades are to other units recruitable from that town and rarely past level 3.

So players have a option of either getting their level 3 units via combat, or building. Both are equally valid. It solves the issues of low level units becoming obsolute and having to simply disband them.

Another idea of the mod I've been formulating in my head is, each race has two or three unique strands of unit types. At each level there would usually be at least one of each (including level 4)

Like elves would have trees which are slow but strong and regenerating(maybe a lower "virtual" level for cheaper upkeep because they are slow, but same stats, building and recruit cost as a higher level) and elves of course, great vision and range.

Undead would have fleshy undead, which would have higher HP and fire weakness, and bony/etheral undead which would have physical protection and holy weakness.

The idea is that you can build units appropriate for your situation. And in the case of weakness, you can build units that avoid being weak to what your enemy has lots of.

Anyways, maybe this won't fit BNW 3 at all, but thats what I've been thinking.(may I use BNW stuff if I I were to make my own mod?)

Now I need to learn how to use morph.

BTW that red unit looks great! Great idea behind it too.

[This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 04-03-2008 @ 11:37 PM).]

nvc_for_the_soul
Member
posted 04-04-08 05:00 AM EDT (US)     14 / 792       
This is a nice surprise - i havent downloaded it yet, but i am curious because i like BNW v2.0 a lot.
I hope there is a Readme included with all the units, stats, spells etc, like the beautifull one in v2.0 because that was so awesomely helpfull while playing .

Thanks to the creator and all who helped him!
Gandalf_DK
Member
posted 04-04-08 02:02 PM EDT (US)     15 / 792       
Hi Kirky.

Your new mod looks awesome - and I haven't even installed it yet. I used to play BNW though, but don't have BNW 2.0 anymore, so I'll need to install and dl that too, before I can test the 3.0 version. I have always been particularly impressed by the excellent graphics in BNW

I have a question for you:
a) Will you allow me to use graphics from the BNW mods for the Gandalf mod?
b) If you allow me this - will they be usable directly by simply copying and pasting from one editor session to another, or will I need to include other files, ILB files for instance, with the Gandalf mod? Perhaps I could also find out about this by simply testing, though.

If you like we can continue the correspondance pr. email. My email address is: mikkelkc@ruc.dk

You can see the current status of the Gandalf mod at:
http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=30&tn=5262&st=recent&f=30,5262,0,60

Cheers,

Gandalf_DK

"It is better to discuss a subject without deciding on it, than to decide on a subject without discussing it" - Herbert Spencer.
Kirky Picardo
Member
posted 04-04-08 06:06 PM EDT (US)     16 / 792       
The King!

Hehe, let's not get carried away.

I'd love to get some games going if possible. I will look for you on messenger.

Nice to hear from you and thanks, my friend.



True Purple!

When I started working on the upgrading of units, the original plan was that level ones would go all the way to level threes something like you describe. However, after trying this I abandoned it. With the units keeping their xp after upgrading they are nearly ready to upgrade again right away. The transition here was too quick for my tastes. If someone figures out how to reset xp to 0 after upgrading it may be worth re-visiting.

Having the upgrade versions as buildable units is interesting. For me though, the fact the upgrade versions are not recruitable gives these lower units even more value. As the only way to get the upgraded version is by recruiting the non-upgraded unit and building it up.

Though your idea is fine too.

nvc_for_the_soul!

I am sorry, but there is not yet complete documentation for the mod like that found in version 2.0. This is a beta version and so it just doesn't include this. Only when stuff is more finalized will I write docs with illustrated tables and such.

I am glad to hear you found the 2.0 documentation useful and thank you for the comments.

Gandalf!

Replied to via e-mail.

To all who may be interested:

Iskatu Mesk has answered to call for unit descriptions with a vengeance! He has sent me many nice descriptions for units and I thought perhaps some out there might like to check a few out.

So here are two unit descriptions that will be in the official release of BNW 3.0 from the creative mind of Iskatu Mesk:

Seer

When a man can foretell your birth, does that make it a coincidence? Does the fall of empires and kings seem any more likely when they have been foreseen? The power to determine the outcome of a particular battle may empower a man and gain him respect. Among the Dark Elves such men are known as Seers, gifted mages who have gained the power to see through powerful magical windows and gain glimpses of the future. They can even harness this energy into material form, where their very gaze will paralyze any who dare to look them in the eye, or change the fate of a man sentenced to death. The power of Seers is well known among the Dark Elves, enough to earn them a direly fearsome reputation.

Arsonist

Orcs love to destroy things. Orcs love to set things on fire. What's more inviting, then, than a giant gun that destroys things by setting them on fire? Truly, an Orc's wildest dream come true! The Arsonist is such a lucky Orc to wield this kind of a weapon, merrily prancing around launching enormous balls of fire at anything that moves. With experience, he'll become extremely proficient at this type of activity, given that such a hobby now takes up all of his time.

Cheers!

Kirky

[This message has been edited by Kirky Picardo (edited 04-04-2008 @ 06:42 PM).]

Jean_Luc
Member
posted 04-05-08 12:38 PM EDT (US)     17 / 792       
Wow Kirky, this looks awesome! I dare not ask how much effort it took to convert and adapt all those ilbs. The Morlok race is especially hilarious, love the weird woman and the blob.

Two questions:

1. Are you open to suggestions? Just a few examples:

- don't like how (almost) all lvl1 shooters end up with mark IV and seeker, makes them feel a bit uniform and it also makes Elves look average when it comes to archery/shooting.

- Necromanser without 'animate dead' doesn't feel right.

- BNW3 Halflings should be called Gnomes imo.

- The 'Female Assassin' unit seams a bit shallow in concept (just like a 'male assassin' would). Plus there is nothing to differentiate her as a "Female" Assassin from the myriad of thief/assassin/ninja units (both buildable and neutral) that already exist in the mod. Maybe a 'Female Spy' with concealment, vision II, seduce, wall climbing, and maybe fire pistol (but no mark at start prolly) would be a more interesting option. She'd be something like Jane Bond. She could even 'morph' into a Femme Fatale (with invisibility and god knows what else) at gold.

- Mutant Militia could use something to make him more distinct from other typical lvl1 "swordsmen". Maybe less defense (crappy/salvaged equipment) but more hit points and/or regeneration (mutant toughness and resilience).

As I said, these are just examples, there are quite a bit more 'issues' (not sure what to call them) similar to those. But I realize this is a beta and that many of the issues could be argued to be subjective.

2. Hypothetically speaking , if one wished to create a map for BNW3 would it be ok to start now or should one wait for the full release? Could there be compatibility issues as BNW progresses through different versions?

"With the first link the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably... "
- Jean-Luc Picard

[This message has been edited by Jean_Luc (edited 04-05-2008 @ 12:41 PM).]

TruePurple
Member
posted 04-05-08 01:22 PM EDT (US)     18 / 792       
You missed a question/request picardo. May I use your very nice graphics/ideas for my own mod?

One can stagger it, have some level 1's that upgrade to level 2's and some level 2's that upgrade to level 3s.

But for say a level 1 that upgrades to a level 3, we wouldn't need to reset the XP, just make the level 2 and 3 stage morphs actually level 3 & 4. (no difference in stats to the actual buildable unit, and the actual buildable units would still be level 2 & 3) With a bit of a bonus (1 or 2 skills perhaps the normal version wouldn't have) to compensate for the higher level. But not too much.

See I don't want upgrading lower level units to become so profitable with conquest that one doesn't have reason to directly build level 2's & 3's. Thats why I want the upgrades buildable too. Different paths to the same goal.

P.S. Great pics and descriptions!

And you should show up in GS some time, I don't think I've ever played you before, I can't even recall ever seeing you there before.

[This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 04-05-2008 @ 01:34 PM).]

Kirky Picardo
Member
posted 04-05-08 07:22 PM EDT (US)     19 / 792       
Jean_Luc!
- don't like how (almost) all lvl1 shooters end up with mark IV and seeker, makes them feel a bit uniform and it also makes Elves look average when it comes to archery/shooting.
The elven and dark elven guys actually end up with mark V. Nevertheless, you may have a point here, and I will consider other types of upgrades for at least some of these low level shooters.
Necromanser without 'animate dead' doesn't feel right.
Agreed. I seem to remember I gave him animate dead, but then when I added the Lich King I removed it as I didn't want both to have it. But a Necromancer should have that, so...
- BNW3 Halflings should be called Gnomes imo.
Eh, I like 'em as Hobbits.
- The 'Female Assassin' unit seams a bit shallow in concept (just like a 'male assassin' would). Plus there is nothing to differentiate her as a "Female" Assassin from the myriad of thief/assassin/ninja units (both buildable and neutral) that already exist in the mod. Maybe a 'Female Spy' with concealment, vision II, seduce, wall climbing, and maybe fire pistol (but no mark at start prolly) would be a more interesting option. She'd be something like Jane Bond. She could even 'morph' into a Femme Fatale (with invisibility and god knows what else) at gold.
I would call that a "for now" unit and there are some others like it as well. I sometimes just don't know what to give a unit or have a good name, so i give it something "for now". I like your "female james bond" concept. That could also work for her as a Hero. It certainly fits the graphic.
- Mutant Militia could use something to make him more distinct from other typical lvl1 "swordsmen". Maybe less defense (crappy/salvaged equipment) but more hit points and/or regeneration (mutant toughness and resilience).
Well, this is probably the dullest Morlock unit. He doesn't really strike me as a unit that should have high hit points. However, something along the lines you suggest might at least make it a bit less dull.

I am happy to get suggestions from others. I am only one person and I do the best I can, but part of the idea of a beta release is to hopefully get some input from others too. I may not always agree with someone's suggestions, but I will always consider them as long as they are given in a friendly manner. Which 99% of the time they are, as is the case here.

Um..."hypothetically speaking", most things are at least in the slots they will be in I think. So probably so, but someone might have to make some changes at least after the official release.

Interesting name by the way.

True Purple!

You can use some stuff for your own mod. However, we would need to discuss this. I think if you are planning on releasing a mod next week here that includes in its package large amounts of stuff from this beta version that would be a bit unfair. So it would depend on a number of factors and this is something best discussed in a friendly e-mail.

Glad you like the units and the wonderful descriptions by Iskatu Mesk!

Cheers!

Kirky

[This message has been edited by Kirky Picardo (edited 04-05-2008 @ 07:28 PM).]

Boojie Boy
Member
posted 04-05-08 07:27 PM EDT (US)     20 / 792       
Thanks Kirky Picard!

As soon as I installed your update I began playing the original AOWSM Campaign. How refreshing it was! Keep up the great work and thanks again for breathing life (again) into this wonderful game. The only thing that could be better than the Mods and Patches this community produces would be AOW3 from Triumph Studios themselves. Overlord doesn't have this kind of following. I hope that TS sees this.

I would be happy to write a few character descriptions if you need me to. I will be as clever as you want me to be.

Once again, THANKS!

Boojie Boy
Kirky Picardo
Member
posted 04-05-08 07:36 PM EDT (US)     21 / 792       
Boojie Boy!

Heh, you are a brave one to jump into the campaign. I also started playing it myself. If you have any problems let me know. I see your e-mail is listed and if you feel like writing a unit or hero description or two, I'd be grateful for the help. I'll write you a short e-mail in a couple of days if okay.

Meanwhile, good luck with the campaign and thank you for your post!



Kirky

[This message has been edited by Kirky Picardo (edited 04-05-2008 @ 07:37 PM).]

Timelord
HG Cherub
posted 04-05-08 08:43 PM EDT (US)     22 / 792       
I've just started playing Battles of Creation with the beta and one thing I noticed right away is that the Voodoo Priest preview graphic doesn't show up on the right pane when you click Monastery. I'll post more feedback as I play on but so far, its been good...the morphing paths are really cool

Reg the installer, when it finishes, it automatically runs the Enable BNW Extras but doesn't actually switch resources. Can lead to some confusion (I hastily exited out since I was playing a PBEM game only to discover that I was playing with the default resources!)

2009 1v1-Mapmaking Champion, Former PBEM Singles Champion, Proud contributor to the UPatch 1.4 and 1.5 effort
War of the Twins- 1 vs 1 PBEM map, Too Much Water - 1 vs 1 PBEM map, winner of 2009 1vs1 Mapmaking Challenge
My Dragon Age development blog
Kirky Picardo
Member
posted 04-05-08 09:38 PM EDT (US)     23 / 792       
Hi Timelord,

I am trying to see what the problem could be with the voodoo priest but I see it here fine. I would ask if you ever loaded and saved the map under another mod?

The instructions do say you have to select BNW 3.0 Beta in AoWSM Setup, but if it did that automatically it would be nice, yes.

Cheers!

Kirky

[This message has been edited by Kirky Picardo (edited 04-05-2008 @ 09:42 PM).]

vampyreking
Member
posted 04-06-08 02:14 AM EDT (US)     24 / 792       
The morphing path of units are very cool. Graphics are superb. I found one missing the other day shadow hydra. That made for an interesting battle. If you need any extra hand with description send me an email. I dropped one your way today.
The spell changes are good. I noticed stoneskin and healing both go up to 12 mana. As I believe heroes are the bread and all the new units the butter, would you consider perhaps uping more enchantments. I would suggest moving some of the very good ones to lv 2, bless, stoneskin, darkgirt. Anyways enjoying playing an finding all the new creatures. Great news about the campaign, I might give it a whirl sometime too.

i am the vampyre king i can do anything
Low_K
Member
posted 04-06-08 06:26 AM EDT (US)     25 / 792       
Hello Kirky,

Mod looks good (from what I saw from this forum) and will download it after I get home from work, but just to make a few things clear;

I am currently working on a new scenario (which is rather massive, like Lords of Celederion only almost 2 times bigger!) using the standard 1.4 patch. If I use your mod, the units will be "morphed" automatically right? Will the already placed structures etc. also "morph", or do I have to manually add them in the editor?

Furthermore, do I have to de-select the mod in the Setup file when I want to play with the standard 1.4 version or does it do that automatically when I launch the disable-BNW program?

Thanks in advance for the answers!

Kind regards,

Low

[This message has been edited by Low_K (edited 04-06-2008 @ 07:11 AM).]

Kirky Picardo
Member
posted 04-06-08 11:43 AM EDT (US)     26 / 792       
The King!

Thanks, can always use an extra hand. I don't see an e-mail from you yet.

If you check in the editor you will see that I also slightly increased the upkeep of a lot of these enchants. Moving some to level two might be good.

In regards to the shadow hydra, I could say the reason you don't see it is because it's a shadow! But that would be a lie, hehe. I'll make sure it is included in the official release and maybe make it available at a filesharing site before then too. If you see anything else like this let me know.



Low_K!

Structures aren't overwritten in the mod. They are placed after ones the UPatch added and won't appear in place of normal ones on maps. Some do when you play random maps though. So for a mapmaker they are there as extras. And there are quite a few too.

Units are changed and get BNWized so to speak.

You do have to run AoWSM Setup to de-select the mod when you want to go back to standard play. Timelord mentions something like this as well, and maybe it would be better and less confusing for people if the enable and disable programs did this automatically.

Thanks for the comments!

Kirky

[This message has been edited by Kirky Picardo (edited 04-06-2008 @ 12:21 PM).]

Jean_Luc
Member
posted 04-06-08 04:30 PM EDT (US)     27 / 792       
Hey Kirky, I see you already have a good number of volunteers but feel free to send some of those units/heroes needing descriptions to picard@neobee.net (there's that name again ). I've done around 10 of 'em for Stranger's Dwiggs mod so I can provide samples too if you want. Anyway, here's a more...umm, "detailed" list of suggestions and similar stuff. Don't worry, I won't expect you to respond to them in such detail (or at all) like you did the first time, thanks for that btw. Here goes:

1. The reason I mentioned Halflings should be called Gnomes is because they have a good number of gnome-like machine units and you used a lot of gnomish WoW images for their units/heroes but, yes, many of their units retained their Halfling form. Actually this concept of Gnome/Halfling alliance came to mind (short folk sticking together ). Maybe something like GAHTO (Gnome and Halfling Treaty Organisation ). Still, this is hardly a big deal, next!

2. Concerning lvl1 shooters. Sorry, didn't notice elves went up to mark V. Anyway, should you still want to diversify the shooters a bit more maybe something like this could work. Gunpowder shooters (riflemen/musketeers) go up to mark V but don't get seeker (more power but less accuracy + seeker is more than just an att bonus, it's "very magical" so to speak, shots go around corners, ignore obstacles, height penalties, that kind of magic seams out of place on 'technological' weapons like muskets/rifles). Elves go up to mark III (or IV) + seeker (very accurate, even more than "pistol" with mark V but less damaging, compared to before at least, and in tune with the elven nature). "Lesser but good archers" (like arabians/immortals) could get seeker (for balance reasons) but go up to mark II (or III if elves get IV). "Poor archers" like Orcs shouldn't get seeker imo but could go up to mark III and fire arrows already have a small advantage. To compensate their melee nature could be more pronounced. In Dwiggs, the basic Orc Axeman has charge which is a good representation of Orc brutality and it makes the axeman different than other basic "swordsmen", you could do the same. There are just examples, all those mark lvls could be shifted either way, I was just suggesting the mark lvl ratios.

3. A small after comment on the Mutant Militia. Regeneration really reminds me of your typical concept of how mutation alters your metabolism and body chemistry (kinda like in the comics) etc. That's why I argued for it.

4. Human Champion unit. Too bland, gets dragon at silver slaying but Knight already has it. Seams redundant tbh.

5. Not enough 'drain will' in the mod imo (or any that I've seen). It's really needed especially now that all those low lvl units get crusader when they advance. EDIT: Oh yeah, crusader can't be "drained" but still, more DW plz. :P

6. Elven swordsmen. Give them/him extra strike (even human infantry gets it). Elves are nimble and fast (more att, extra strike etc., less hits/armour), humans/orcs are stronger but not as agile (more damage, especially orcs, more armour -primarily for humans who are better craftsmen- and more hit points -this time more for orcs who are naturally tougher-) etc.

7. Entangle strike for the Grove Master (no elven unit has it I think)? At medal maybe...

8. Seduce for the Wood Nymph(I don't know if she gets it at medal but she should have it at the start imo)? She is a Nymph after all...

9. Diversify unit names. For example there are quite a few units called thief or assassin.

10. Bard's Skills for the Temple Virgin? The pure good Archons could use it and she doesn't have many abilities as she is (no seduce). Also, Cardinal better than Saint? Does the saint evolve into a Cardinal? Give the saint a miracle or two like resurrect and/or resurgence or maybe change his name to "Good Samaritan" because his current abilities don't justify the saintly designation imo.

11. Ressurect/animate dead for the (Dark) Angel?

12. Voodoo Priest. Make him more Voodoo-like with energy drain and/or life stealing (drop the poison strike) maybe animate dead at medal. Diversify, not every priest unit needs to have "turn undead". Ironically the Cleric unit doesn't have it.

13. Ninja. Give him wall climbing at start (he's a ninja after all) and move phase to the 'master ninja' stage. Phase seams more like a skill for the master rather than the "apprentice" ninja.

14. Slave Master. Trap instead of entangle (strike). A 'slave'master should have trap imo. Now, I know trap isn't as good at immobilizing as entangle is and balance needs to be taken into account. Can't the attack of trap be increased like in Dwiggs with trap II etc.?

15. Colossus. Such a big guy should have wall crushing imo.

16. Free movement for the Pilgrim/Navigator?

17. Poison darts for the Hydralisk? I shouldn't have to explain. Instead of black bolts he could have death strike. Maybe death strike for the Slayer too if the demons need more different types of attacks. Or black breath (instead of gas) for the Fiend? Would even be more fluffy imo.

18. Spelling error, Leviathon -> Leviathan

19. How about a transport for the Morloks other/"instead of" than the Balloon which doesn't really fit them imo. Use the Goblin Tank. Rename it to Kobold Tank. Both units use "pistols" so it fits even better.

K, that's it (for now...). Sorry for all the pain.

"With the first link the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably... "
- Jean-Luc Picard

[This message has been edited by Jean_Luc (edited 04-06-2008 @ 04:37 PM).]

vampyreking
Member
posted 04-06-08 06:40 PM EDT (US)     28 / 792       
email is unholyvampyre@yahoo.co.nz

i am the vampyre king i can do anything
Jean_Luc
Member
posted 04-06-08 08:01 PM EDT (US)     29 / 792       
A few more things Kirky,

20. The Night Runner's description says it morphs into "The Silent Assassin" but the unit's name is 'The Silencer'. Also the Shadow Hunter's description says he becomes a Demon Hunter but the unit is called the Demon Stalker.

21. The Silencer doesn't get mark IV at silver (as stated in the description) but does get mark V and seeker at gold. Did you maybe intend this? I haven't been paying much attention but I have a feeling this happens with other morphed archers/shooters too.

22. Dark Warrior and the Shadow Hunter have completely identical abilities (stats are different of course) and for the same price of 80gold the Black Robe seams like a much better option than the SH. Now maybe the SH could get death strike (to differentiate him more from the Dark Warrior) and or the round attack could be moved from the Black Robe onto the SH (after all the SH is a dedicated warrior while the BR is more of a fighter/wizard + the staff and especially those curved dual blades he gets when he morphs seam perfect for executing round attacks). Another option to make the SH more interesting would be to give him holy champion (at medal or maybe even only after he morphs). It would be an interesting take on an "evil" unit I think and he does 'hunt shadows' and later evolve into a 'demon' hunter. Doesn't mean he's good, only that he specializes in hunting down "dark beasts".

"With the first link the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably... "
- Jean-Luc Picard
Kirky Picardo
Member
posted 04-06-08 08:22 PM EDT (US)     30 / 792       
Jean_Luc

I'll answer other stuff soon, but I wanted to answer one thing now. Morphed units never get the silver medal attribute. You can read about it in the guide Merkraad wrote in the wiki. Now I often with these shooters and such still put it as a skill as they may also be purchased in a recruitment site for example. And in that case where they start off with 0xp they will get the silver medal bonus when they attain silver medal. So it's a bit of a quirk with the morph thing that because the unit already has the xp of a silver medal it doesn't get that.

Oh ya, hah. If you save the game and then load it they do get the silver medal bonus, heh. So this is something I am aware of and just haven't decided what would be best. Maybe no silver medal skills for these units probably is best solution.

Cheers!

Kirky

[This message has been edited by Kirky Picardo (edited 04-06-2008 @ 08:30 PM).]

Jean_Luc
Member
posted 04-06-08 09:33 PM EDT (US)     31 / 792       
Yeah, I had a feeling it was a "feature" and not a bug. It just feels a little weird to suddenly jump from mark I or II to mark V + seeker. In my earlier musings about ranged units I failed to take into account pistol's 16 att vs. archery's 8 but it doesn't change my opinion much, in fact it shows how much more archery needs the seeker enchantment (despite its higher damage potential imo.).

"With the first link the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably... "
- Jean-Luc Picard
Kirky Picardo
Member
posted 04-06-08 11:16 PM EDT (US)     32 / 792       
Jean_Luc!

Heh, it's not suddenly jumping from mark I or II to mark V. It skips the silver medal one and so will go from II to IV or III to V at gold medal. Now this isn't ideal I agree. Ideally the unit after morphing would reset to 0 xp then we wouldn't have a problem. However, it is not a feature from the actual game, but rather one that a fan (in this case Turbo Beholder) discovered. A great feature too in my opinion, despite its imperfection. I think just dropping the silver medal upgrade and lowering the gold medal down one level so there's no skipping might be best for now.

Cheers!

Kirky
Low_K
Member
posted 04-07-08 05:39 AM EDT (US)     33 / 792       
Hello Kirky,

First off, I applaud you for the mod. After installing it yesterday, a friend and I immediately started a LAN session and were very enthousiastic about what you done to the units. On a sidenote, you might want to put in a warning that the mod doesn't work on games-in-progress with the original 1.4 installed (after end turn, we got a CTD).

We started afresh and played around with a few empires and they all work excellent. Good animations too! I see you were heavily influenced by World of Warcraft

Some units I don't really like, maybe I am picky but the Snowman, scarecrow and Melon-man are really not my cup of tea. However, overall I am very excited about your mod and the disable/enable function works very well.

I am a bit cross with you, while I have to redo parts of my new scenario to implement some features of the mod! I will make the scenario using 1.4 (for people who don't like mods) and make sure when they play it with BNW, they'll get a few nice features of it.

Again, very good work and I recommend people downloading it immediately.

Found a spelling error though;

Matiarch has to be Matriarch.

Kind regards,

Low
Kirky Picardo
Member
posted 04-07-08 10:57 AM EDT (US)     34 / 792       
Low_K

Awww, I thought the snowman be a winner! Oh well. I am not sure which unit the melon-man is actually, lol.

Anyway, people have different tastes and such. I have had people tell me they hate the ships and small amount of futuristic things in past versions of BNW for example, but I also heard from peeps who say they love that stuff.

Good point on games in progress. Sometimes I think people will just know this automatically, but maybe not. I would even add that people shouldn't use the new version for BNW 2 games in progress really. The game may continue to play but there be some oddities too.

If you made a version of your map that took advantage of some of the extra goodies in BNW that would be fantastic. I won't hold you to it, but it will be appreciated if you do.

Thanks.

Kirky
NEHZ2
Member
posted 04-07-08 11:34 AM EDT (US)     35 / 792       
Repeater balista only has archery. I take it this is a mistake, as it's really a sucky unit like this.
When I bought the toy robot from a one of those mercenary hideouts, I used it to build an outpost. The hideout-in-making wouldn't properly show everything, units moved onto it became invisible and the turn wouldn't end.
Also, typo in fire elemental discription: Hold instead of Gold.
Low_K
Member
posted 04-07-08 11:44 AM EDT (US)     36 / 792       
Hello Kirky,

Yeah taste differs. Personally I am neither so fond on futuristic things (as well as guns etc.) The Melon Man is called Jack something btw.

Anyway, these minor distates of me don't hold me back playing the mod! Again kudo's!

Another question;

Did you change anything about the AI? Like the wizardtower building cpu etc.?

Haven't got much time to playtest some more, while my scenario is massive and gulps up all my time atm. But I await the final version with baited breath!

Kind regards,

Low
Oakbow2
Member
posted 04-07-08 01:38 PM EDT (US)     37 / 792       
Hey Kirky!

I have to be Oakbow2, because Im not sure what I did with Oakbow.

Anyway, I cant wait to try this! I need to hit you and Rethwen up again on MSN and get in some games with you guys again!

You are the man! I love BNW, so to see 3.0 released, beta or not, makes today a great day!

Thanks for all your work!
Kirky Picardo
Member
posted 04-07-08 01:41 PM EDT (US)     38 / 792       
NEHZ2,

The balista is sucky with archery and needs something else, I agree.

The build outpost on the Toy Robot is a mistake, sorry. Because the unit does not belong to a specific race the game doesn't know what kind of outpost to make. I will fix it.

Thanks.

Low_K!

Well, let me just say that maybe it's a good that I never did put in the civfantatics Kool-Aid Man, hehe. I thought the Jack O'lantern was a sure winner as well!

I haven't changed the ai at all. At least not in any significant way that is needed. That's beyond my knowledge, I am afraid. So you will still things like the comp building nice units only to send them running off in various directions under some master plan known only to the comp.

Cheers!



Kirky
Kirky Picardo
Member
posted 04-07-08 01:43 PM EDT (US)     39 / 792       
Oakbow!

Hey, thanks a lot! Hope to get a game in with you soon.



Kirky
Jean_Luc
Member
posted 04-07-08 05:26 PM EDT (US)     40 / 792       
I love the Jack o' Lantern (give 'im entangle at gold?) Kirky! Jack, Blob(morphed) and Weird Woman are my favorite Morlok units. Too bad we can't have an actual Gelatinous Cube with swallow whole (absorption/engulfment) . Hmm, maybe Giant Slime should have it...

I love the new Dark Elves too. I didn't like them at first glance because I'm used to that Dark Elven warrior and wizardly regal/noble/elite concept. Even though I still prefer it I've found that this tribal/shamanistic take on them is quite interesting too and they're actually fun to play. The only problem is that I constantly want to refer to them as Nelves. There is room for improvement though, as always.

"With the first link the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably... "
- Jean-Luc Picard
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