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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » General Discussion & Suggestions » What I would like to see in NEXT patch
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Topic Subject:What I would like to see in NEXT patch
Climber
Member
posted 07-26-02 06:47 PM EDT (US)         
I hope I can see this in forthcoming NEXT patch, in order of preference. Game balance/unit changes is omitted here. It's mostly a compliation of what I read in this board

City Building
- Editor control in each city over what structure can be built in each city
- Editor control in each city on population growth rate (prefered)
(e.g. 0/default/very high for encouraging hurrying in certain city)
OR Editor control in each city on max population

Pre-game option:
- No hurrying option for building
- No hurrying option for unit
- If too difficult to implement, just no hurrying for everything is good enough.
e.g. by presetting the population decrease level to a huge number

The old fashion Previous/Next unit hot-key (WITHOUT move)
The old fashion Previous/Next city hot-key

TC Combat
- Add "Skip Animation" option, especially the whole CPU move! Speed up the boring move in MP!
- Make combat log completely scrollable for the last opponent turn
- Surrender button means Fast combat, instead of all unit dying immediately.

Variable Migration Time Option
- Allow map makers have complete control on race distribution; require greater player skill to play
- 5(Default)/10/15/25/100 day Migration
- As a pre-game option
- AND in each city in editor (if possible)

Make any spell triggable event in editor (hope if this is easy)
- Not just storms
- beside Global spells, units spells too (e.g. like the hospital)

More ability awards for Silver/Gold units

Pioneer
- does not destroy itself, after rebuilding (except city); and a cost of say, 100 gold for rebuilt is needed
- Pioneer rebuild city ruin in X days, where X is the level of city

Pre-game option
- No Spirit/quests intervention
- No Teleportable artifact

AI Alliance less willing to trade city

AuthorReplies:
JAT
Member
posted 07-27-02 02:54 AM EDT (US)     1 / 28       
What we, everyone who has this problem, like to see is for the memory leak to be fixed. That is the most important issue, still.

Your city building options and pre-game options seem like nothing more than niceties to me.

Quote:


The old fashion Previous/Next unit hot-key (WITHOUT move)

*sigh* you can turn auto move off in the game options menu you know.

TC Combat

- "Skip Animation": issue doesn't really bother me. I usually have unit animation, in the menu, set on Fast.
- combat log completely scrollable: I don't use the log myself.
- Surrender button means Fast combat. Now that is an obvious improvement to the current situation. Surrender is a silly command right now, because you can't win anything with it, save real time. The units should keep on fighting, but the wizard shouldn't have to stay and finish it. I suggest one difference to real auto combat though: no spells.

Your migration and trigger event suggestions I think are extras.

I agree that more units should get more ability awards and I also agree with your suggestions on improving pioneers and AI trading. But these are balance issues though, and you said you had omitted those.

[This message has been edited by JAT (edited 07-27-2002 @ 02:55 AM).]

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph
posted 07-27-02 06:11 AM EDT (US)     2 / 28       

* Haste upkeep increase

* Swamps consuming 6 movement points instead of 4 (like grassland).



Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
psykitty
Member
posted 07-27-02 09:04 AM EDT (US)     3 / 28       
-make concealment work(I'm pretty sure the first patch didn't fix this, I didn't see it on the list of things changed).
Falagar
Member
posted 07-27-02 09:25 AM EDT (US)     4 / 28       
-more Hero/Wizard-pics

There is a feature from HoMM4 I would like to see in the game: Prisons (for Heroes).
Don't know if it will work, but it sounds cool.


Tell me, Lucifer Morningstar... Ask yourselves, all of you... What power would Hell have if those here imprisoned were not able to dream of Heaven?

[This message has been edited by Falagar (edited 07-27-2002 @ 09:31 AM).]

Xeno
Member
posted 07-27-02 12:46 PM EDT (US)     5 / 28       
-An event that razes/(re)builds a structure

And I begged, 'Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?'
And the angel said unto me, 'These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots!'
Climber
Member
posted 07-29-02 12:53 PM EDT (US)     6 / 28       
JAT, I personally do not have any memory leak problem. Yes, I miss that auto-combat option.

Everything I said above CAN be regarded as extra. But if most of them can be implemented quite effortlessly by developers in a patch, AOW2 can become a Classic. Most sugguestion I have mentioned above have big impact on how 'DIFFERENT' a game can be played even on the same map OR how much more choices are given to map makers to change the game feel.

I can imagine if there is a city can only produce Incanate, with very very high population growth and allow Hurrying will make a very interesting map/play.

'No hurrying' allow SOME games focus more on lower level units. Also it set the pace of the game, in some/all part of the map, RASHing units are allowed; all decided by map maker. Players need to make sure they make the most from the few high level unit they produce OR the map maker willingly provide (if any).

'Skip Animation' is save a lot of time, esp. when fighting with AI in MP games.

'No/Slow migration' for certain city is great for Map makers. Map maker should have the COMPLETE control on the what races players play when map makers need!

Just Storms are too limiting, I just guess the AOW2 engine can do more with minor modification in Editor! And it would allow some much creativitive map making using all those global spells! Playing with Tornado as a triggable event should be very fun!

Salad
Member
posted 07-29-02 03:46 PM EDT (US)     7 / 28       
You might not have experienced the memory leak yet, but it's bad; I've had the game crash due to some sort of "insufficient memory" error when it was the only non-background program running (and I've never had this error in any other case; it's not the computer). The time it takes to restart and save the game so much more often gets annoying. Also, I sometimes experience serious game slowdown if I play it awhile (though I can't be sure a memory leak is responsible). Regardless, they need to get the memory leak fixed.
Climber
Member
posted 07-30-02 06:29 PM EDT (US)     8 / 28       
One more important non-balance-related suggestion for the next patch:

When enemy entered my domain, put it to log.

I was annoyed lately that enemy units (without concealment) sneak in my domain. I do not notice them until they occupy a city, which can be easily prevented if I know their existence. This is important in MP, thay you don't have the time to scan each inch of your XXXXXL empire to try looking for enemy.

Hm... AOW2 never crash on my machine 384MB RAM on Althon 800. But I indeed have a virtual memory error when playing it, when may or may not be related.

I hope the people in this board can give more feedback all sugguestions above, either agree or not! Thanks for those who reply!! More replies please!

These suggestions are what I really want (although most of them are not my ideas). I want to make a consenus that these are what WE want!

Of course any developer's comment will be excellent!

SmegInThePants
Member
posted 07-30-02 08:26 PM EDT (US)     9 / 28       
turn off all background programs, INCLUDING ZONEALAEM (my old roommate w/almost an identical system just discovered that was the culprit for him) they use memory even inthe background, memory and resources aow2 needs a lot of. Plus, get Ad-aware from http://www.download.com , ya might have a lot of spyware on your machine (spyware is perfectly legal and ya can get it just by going to the wrong websites, ad-aware gets rid of it, and its free). In win98SE at least, go to the run menu and type 'msconfig' to see a checkbox list of everything that gets started up automatically w/windows, including all the things that have no icons or any visual evidence that they are running and using up resources (ya can just uncheck anything ya don't want started up automatically).

Plus if ya have winxp, winxp itself is a memory hog all on its own, especially if ya have an animated desktop (switch to a non-animated one). Turn off screen savers, turn off power saving schemes, turn off winmx or kazaa or whaterver ya use. The fact that other games work fine doesn't mean its not a problem w/your set up, every piece of software draws upon different resources in different amounts. Anything running in the background at all could well be drawing from a resource aow2 needs, slowing it down. If it were a memory leak, I think it would effect everyone w/the same hardware and o/s and system specs pretty much the same, but it doesn't. The fact that its a creeping problem, doesn't necessarily mean its a memory leak either. Most damning is that a number of people have solved it by turning off screen savers, or turning off a proggy like my old roommate (in his case, zone alarm). Also, make sure ya update your drivers for all your hardware, most especially your sound card, and your video card (just because other games work fine, doesn't mean your drivers are updated). Make sure ya have the latest directx too.

Unlike other tbs strat games which are usually outdated in the multimedia sense and run great on everyone's machine, this one uses a lot of the latest stuff out there (which as ya can see, is a double edged sword), which means users have all the probs getting it to work ya might have w/say, the latest most system intense FPS, ya need to have all the updates, patches and fixes for both windows, your software and your hardware just to ensure it runs well.

Try all that before assuming its a memory leak, otherwise ya haven't ruled out other possibilities.

Ashnak
Member
posted 07-31-02 05:32 AM EDT (US)     10 / 28       
on the subject of spyware be aware that if you have Kazaa installed that comes with a whole suite of spyware that sends your info to various US companies (and no you cannot select to not install them when installing Kazaa) - check google for "kazaa lite" for more info...


Sergeant, pass me another elf, this one's split...
Tashimura
Member
posted 07-31-02 07:11 AM EDT (US)     11 / 28       
AI using boats and not ignoring concealment
Climber
Member
posted 07-31-02 06:16 PM EDT (US)     12 / 28       
Hi,

My order of preference changed, non-balanced related sugguestions:

City Building
- Editor control in each city over what structure can be built in each city
- Editor control in each city on max population:
Right now, every city is the same which is boring!
- Editor control in each city on population growth rate
e.g. -200/-100/0/default/100/200/500 per day
Encourage hurrying in specific city, if map maker wants
(-ve population growth is interesting, but not a necessity)

Triggable Event enhancements in editor
- Not just storms, any Global and unit spells can be used as trigger
e.g. freeze water allow Moses like miracles of parting water and other limitless possibility
e.g. create places that curses everyone etc, instead of hasted/healed
- Allow independents trigger events
- An event that razes/(re)builds a structure

Previous/Next City hot-key:
City information screen will pops up automatically, not just centred the city
It cycle according to the sequence of sort of the city summary panel

Hurrying Pre-game option:
- Allow presetting Pop. decrease level for hurrying building and/or unit to -10/20/30/40/100 per 10 production point hurried:
Allow map maker control the usefullness of lower leverl units
If too difficult to implement, just no hurrying for both

TC Combat
- Add "Skip Animation" option, especially the whole CPU move!
Speed up the boring move in time limited MP, every second counts
- Make combat log completely scrollable for the last opponent turn
- Surrender button means Fast combat, instead of all unit dying immediately.

MP focused enhancement
- When non-concealed enemy entered my domain, put it to log:
Relieve players from scanning for intruder; avoid surprise attack due to negligence under time limit
- AI Alliance less willing to trade city:
It quite cheesy for player to exchange towers with City with AI
- Allow players to manage city/units in Global map when other players engage in TC

More ability awards for Gold units:
Just gold, not silver due to the Shrine of War
Refer to other excellent thread for detail

Race Migration Option
- 5(Default)/10/15/25/100 day Migration:
As a pre-game option AND as an option in each city in editor (if possible)
Map maker
- Mandatory Migration to Wizard's race imediately
Require player greater skill if stuck at specific race
Map makers can have complete control on race distribution;

Pioneer
- does not destroy itself, after rebuilding (except city);
- gold cost of say, 100 gold for rebuilt is needed
- Pioneer rebuild city ruin in X days, where X is the level of city

AI fixes
- AI use Boats
- AI build more level 3 units, slightly less machines:
Fighting garrisioned AI with 20+ ballistica is boring, although challaging.

Pre-game option
- No Spirit/quests intervention
- No Teleportable artifact

--------------
I accept AI cheating a bit for seeing concealed unit. I can imagine AI can be easily beaten if they cannot see them (a problem in MP)
I accept AI not building level 4 units for various reasons.

Drakken
Member
posted 07-31-02 06:41 PM EDT (US)     13 / 28       
I may be wrong, but I think we're spitting into the wind when it comes to more editor enhancements. I'd settle for letting the independent player trigger events, and more spell events, other than a storm...those 2 would seem to be the easiest to implement. It's still a shame that you can't script a structure raze/rebuild event...at least rebuild.

I'd wish Josh would tell us if you can use the "Spawn Campaign Hero" event or not, I couldn't get it to do anything on the new day trigger.

Josh AoW
VIP
posted 07-31-02 08:10 PM EDT (US)     14 / 28       
Well, considering that you're not making a campaign, I'd guess that it wouldn't do much...

Josh Farley
Programmer
Triumph Studios
Drakken
Member
posted 07-31-02 10:04 PM EDT (US)     15 / 28       
Well heck, I guess not then. I was hoping it was just a spawn hero event and that I was doing something wrong. Sooner or later someone will figure out how to make a campaign...unless you guys say no.
Climber
Member
posted 08-01-02 10:41 PM EDT (US)     16 / 28       
WOW Josh is looking at this thread!!

Josh, any comment on those suggested changes? Are they reasonable to expect in next patch? Especially the first few one or some other minor ones that developers can easily change?

Josh AoW
VIP
posted 08-02-02 00:50 AM EDT (US)     17 / 28       
Most things that fall under "new features/options" are unlikely, simply because of the extra time and effort needed to implement and test them. As for other things, I don't make the decisions as to what gets implemented, I simply pass along what I see...

Josh Farley
Programmer
Triumph Studios
LonelyTower
Member
posted 08-02-02 02:19 AM EDT (US)     18 / 28       
Josh, please allow map-maker to limit the population of towns and to ban the building of any buildings within each town and I promise you -- the AoW2 community will thrive till the next century!! (Ok, ok, maybe not that long...)
Polaris X
Member
posted 08-02-02 02:31 AM EDT (US)     19 / 28       
All i want is this.

City Structures: OFF.

Thank you. bye.

SmegInThePants
Member
posted 08-02-02 05:36 AM EDT (US)     20 / 28       
All I want for christmas are my two front teeth
Drakken
Member
posted 08-02-02 08:55 AM EDT (US)     21 / 28       
Josh, in your opinion, how hard would it be to allow independents to trigger events? You can see my wants are dropping by the second.

Adding a drop down down spell event may not be worth it to your company, and limiting a city's size/structures would seem fairly difficult.

[This message has been edited by Drakken (edited 08-02-2002 @ 08:58 AM).]

Kilyr
Banned
posted 08-02-02 02:09 PM EDT (US)     22 / 28       
Like the "Surrender" and "Objectives" options in Patch1.1:

1 An in-game delete save game option. This is what I consider to be very handy and more user friendlier.

2 A restart mission option.

3 In the campaign: The chance to see inter-mission briefings again, to be able to go to the campaign screen again and again seeing your mission briefing and cutscenes.Maybe this can be done with the restart mission button mentioned in number 2(above)or otherwise in another way.
I especially like the system in Warcraft 3, everyone their own profile, you can just see cinamatics again restart which mission you like. Alo in Warcraft 3 , you can delete save games and restart mission.In this respect Warcraft 3 is perfect.
Now I don't say it has to be like in Warcraft 3, but AOW2 sure misses this here and these points made above are the only things I don't like in AOW2. AOW2 should have this.

Drakken
Member
posted 08-02-02 05:58 PM EDT (US)     23 / 28       
Bah, I'll be back when someone makes a devEd for aow2, I'm going to play WC3.
DaBomb2000
Member
posted 08-02-02 11:32 PM EDT (US)     24 / 28       
The main thing i would like to see is some of the DIPLOMACY aspects changed.

I think the computer values watch towers/reflecting pools too much. Considering you can still see everything they can in an alliance they still are willing to give up a mine for a watchtower and few extra gold pieces or mana points.

They are also far to willing to trade away cities in alliances. I once bought a city level city for 700 mana.

The AI should also judge structure transactions based on their postions on the map. A strategy i employ is sending out a scout into deep enemy territory and taking a few watch towers and mines (knowing i or my alliance won't be able to hold on to them) and then i trade them away for more stable resourse postions my alliances have.

I don't think it would be to hard to make the AI demand more for such trades.

Fingers
Member
posted 08-03-02 00:53 AM EDT (US)     25 / 28       

Quoted from Josh:

Most things that fall under "new features/options" are unlikely, simply because of the extra time and effort needed to implement and test them. As for other things, I don't make the decisions as to what gets implemented, I simply pass along what I see...

Josh, please for the love of God try to implement those editor options for cities in a patch. If it is in any way possible, I beg of you. While I don’t mean to suggest you haven’t created something brilliant with AoWII, frankly its whole open-ended, “mapmakers’ hands-off” approach to city-size, unit- production (i.e. the ‘hurry’ button) and upgrade levels is proving hard to cope with. Not to be apocolytic, it is probably even reason enough for me to move on to something else unless there are those changes, ere long. All work has ceased on my project simply because none of my ideas can work without certain cities having their size and upgrades limited throughout the game. What's truly maddening about it is that there’s all the other new stuff you’ve put in that I would love to play around with, like events, which because of mushrooming cities tend to be spoilt wretchedly with bathos and run amuck. Hey, we're all grateful for everything you've given us and for your coming around to post. Tell your more silent friends who plot and scheme the big decisions that we are grateful for their efforts as well, but that there are some recurring issues here. Judging from the last couple of months in the forum, they're a really big deal to a lot of hopeful mapmakers who feel more or less as I do -- that any old hole in the ground potentially growing into a metropolis complete with wizards tower and forcefield after so many turns, producing high-level units and whatnot is okay as the default setting, but if the system is completely unalterable, then many ideas that were staples of old AoW-goodness are rendered impossible or less doable, which isn’t good. I believe what is done regarding all of this will have an impact when it comes to the longevity of AoWII and its mapmaking community. The steady stream of suggestions for the editor along the lines of Climber’s post has convinced me, as I’m sure it must be some kind of indication to you as well. The game is Triumphs’ baby, you’ll do with it whatever you please. With respect, I am hoping you’re open to a few non-minor tweak type changes for us.

Please.

~Fingers~

[This message has been edited by Fingers (edited 08-03-2002 @ 01:08 AM).]

Climber
Member
posted 08-03-02 02:13 AM EDT (US)     26 / 28       
Have you guys feel Josh is very fuzzy about those City suggestions? There was a long thread about that and he never reply. I believe they know it's important for map makers, I hope that they do not found this City change too difficult. If they are spending effort on RMG, I really prefer them improving the list above instead. Constructed map can be amazing, RMG maps can only be above average at best.

My really trimmed list for the NEXT patch, in priority:

MUST have:
1.Limitation of ALL city structure contruction & max. pop size
2.Allow most spells, if not all, as Spell Trigger

Very nice to have:
3.Cycle city hot-key that pop up City info., not just centre the city:
Save tons of unecessary mouse click when checking city, EVERY turn

Nice to have:
4.Control of city population growth rate
5.Make various MP improvement above, if not time consuming for DEVs

That's all I say!

Schattenzauber
Member
posted 08-03-02 09:20 AM EDT (US)     27 / 28       
i would like to see, all magic improved on high levels

1.
make the summon spells cheaper they are WAY to expansive now!
i would love to see high level summoned units in action!

2.
i also miss a water domain spell for the water sphere, wich should grant physical protection and swimming, it should be available

3.
improve water and fire elementals, there are to weak, give fire elemental physical protection and boostet attack stats, and water elemental physical protection and static shield

thanks!

Breschau
Member
posted 08-03-02 01:23 PM EDT (US)     28 / 28       
Just wanted to add a note of support to the suggestion of a pre-game option to disable production hurrying (unit/structure/both). It's probably the single biggest alteration I'd like to see.
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