You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

AoW2/SM Scenario Design
Moderated by Swolte, Ziggurat Mason

Hop to:    
loginhomeregisterhelprules
Bottom
Topic Subject: AoW2Ed: A serious step backwards
posted 06-15-02 10:56 PM EDT (US)   
I just started working on a map and have discovered that some clown on the AoW2 dev team has decided to remove a map designers ability to customize guards or rewards in crypts and the like. All guards and rewards/troops are now totally random. I never used random rewards on an AoW1 map because I didn't want to have to remove all the unbalanced munchkin items that the developers put it.

We patiently explained that we wanted more control of options in the AoW2 editor but as is becoming apparent we have actually lost options that we had in AoW1Ed. I am beginning to feel that the AoW2 devs are hostile to the concept of players using the editor because they seem to want to screw it up rather than enhance it.

Replies:
posted 06-15-02 11:11 PM EDT (US)     1 / 11  
Not quite. Here's how you do it:

1. set defense to "None"

2. Set up trigger for entering the site (2 hex distance). Should warn playe about the site and add roleplay message.

3. set up trigger for entering center hex. On trigger, set up spawn units to attack.

4. Place any items at center hex, so they can be retrieved if battle is won.

So, it isn't the same, but it does what you want.

posted 06-16-02 02:56 AM EDT (US)     2 / 11  
Triggers may work, but I agree the lack of control over the defenders and items sucks. I only pray the patch fixes this, although I doubt it.
posted 06-16-02 03:45 AM EDT (US)     3 / 11  
Yeah, the editor is very glitchy and is missing many features. DEFINATELY needs to be fixed. I hate that you cant edit crypts and such, and there is no easy way around it. The editor may be better at creating better looking terrain, but many of the great features of the original are gone. Can't set a maximum size for a city, giving heroes pre-set items doesnt work (they get jumbled in the wrong slots, and when you remove them and try again it says they are still in use), can't edit crypts/lairs/campsites/similar structures very well at all, etc.

This stuff needs to be fixed; the editor isnt very polished and is missing some features that are desperately needed.

posted 06-17-02 07:08 AM EDT (US)     4 / 11  
sigh, best Alex...

please listen carefully and promise me you will never call us clowns again, please...

here is the solution:

If you place an exploration site on your map, he defaults to average defenders, which means he will pick one race of the races available on the map and randomly select average strenght units.
Now, if you want to put your own defenders on this site, set it to 'none' (no (random)defenders)and place the units you want on top of the site, these will then automatically become the defenders of the site and will be invisible on the map, just like normal defenders. !
about items: if you place an item on a site, it will replace the random item in the site with the item you picked.

also, in this way: you can also add units to the random defenders, ie: if you place a kharagh on an average defended site, you will find there the random units PLUS the khargh.

now please calm down everybody and get your spirits up!
the editor is great, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with it, but, as with all editors, first you'll have to know the tricks.

glad to be of help, Wazzz

posted 06-17-02 09:11 AM EDT (US)     5 / 11  
I'm glad you came to help Wazzz, people are just being bit hasty with their opinions.

- All you need is love -

The Wizards of Creation

posted 06-17-02 09:54 AM EDT (US)     6 / 11  
Sorry Wazz... but the editor from the original Age of Wonders was better because the map builders didn't have to do work arounds such as this.

Not to mention that those creatures placed onto the structure could become part of a battle if someone is standing next to them when a computer/human attacks.

That is only one of the flaws with the so called work around you provided.
I would have to agree with Alex that the AgeofWondersII editor has been weakened in many ways.


There can be only one.
Highlander
posted 06-17-02 02:07 PM EDT (US)     7 / 11  

Quote:

please listen carefully and promise me you will never call us clowns again, please...

Sorry, I won't do that again. The red wig and rubber nose really fooled me.

Quote:

the editor is great, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with it, but, as with all editors, first you'll have to know the tricks.

That is an interesting opinion. Can you join us at the following thread and give us some your perspective on our comments?

http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=26,15,0,60

posted 06-17-02 03:22 PM EDT (US)     8 / 11  
In my humble opinion, I have had no problems/issues with creating custom designed exploration sites with user-selected guardians/rewards. Following Wazz's advice seems to work, and I actually find it easier to use than the Aow1 editor.

I also hope people continue to keep feedback and discussions useful and constructive. Calling the devs or other forumers names and posting criticisms multiple times on multiple threads without actually taking the time to play the game thoroughly and explore the game's options and gameplay does not seem particularly helpful.

I have seen other threads were people complain, particularly about the editor features, where their complaints are unfounded and its actually just seems to be the case that they haven't taken the time to figure out how the game works yet!

Cheers!

posted 06-18-02 12:29 PM EDT (US)     9 / 11  

Quoted from Alex:

Wazz: Please listen carefully and promise me you will never call us clowns again, please...

Alex: Sorry, I won't do that again. The red wig and rubber nose really fooled me.

Alex, I know you're an adult and this sort of badgering and name calling is beneath you. I know you can express your opinions in a more professional manner. Please be more repectful in the future.


posted 06-19-02 04:33 PM EDT (US)     10 / 11  
I have the game now, and I dive into the editor with "great expectations".

Positives and negatives.

+: Enourmous potential for terrain editing - great! Wonderful graphics, and good tools. The same goes for the item-libraries. I haven't gone deeper into scripting yet, but it looks promising. I was also surprised to see that the interface of the editor was the same as AOW, I think that's good.

-: The towns take up much space and are un-containable, they will all grow to city-size eventually (right?). Flexibility in map-making suffers, as there are no other production-sites available. The hero/wizard libraries are adequate at best, they give you about 3(!) choices of faces for each race (and with 3 classes, there is no room for variety). The class level-up concept is cool though. But it seems that map-makers are supposed to keep map-sizes at a minimum, what is that about? I was disappointed in the lack of a second underground level, that was one of THE major tools in creating big maps that could simulate a campaign-feel.

I'm also somewhat disappointed in the lack of traditional units in the game. What independent units can I put in caves except spiders? I miss Trolls..

Remedies:
I think someone said in a post somewhere that one should not complain without coming up with an alternative solution. So here are my suggestions:

Bigger libraries, all around. Variety is GOOD, not BAD. I am noe especially eager to play the game, as I know the devs used this same editor. But they can combine maps into campaigns.. that helps.

Let us have some control over city-growth. Why can't we grey out buildings? (Thanks for the optional teleport by the way)

And the "go around" tricks, that's just silly. Do we have to be experts to be able to make a decent scenario?

Lastly: these comments have been based on my experience with the editor after 2 days use. They are, in my impression, not subject to lack of testing, as they are "yes or no" problems straight out. Please prove me wrong, nothing is better than my being at fault.


posted 06-19-02 08:14 PM EDT (US)     11 / 11  

Quoted from Rorschach:

And the "go around" tricks, that's just silly. Do we have to be experts to be able to make a decent scenario?

It helps.

Actually, I think the way the editor works allows for more freedom than a preset way of setting things up. The drawback is you do need to be pretty good to make a good map. If you want events, some programming experience will always help (thinking in terms of procedures and analyzing problems).

Now, you don't have to use events at all.

Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW2/SM Scenario Design » AoW2Ed: A serious step backwards
Top
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register
Hop to:    
Age of Wonders 2 Heaven | HeavenGames