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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW1 Mod Packs » Fozzie's Mod
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Topic Subject:Fozzie's Mod
White Wolf
Member
posted 06-08-05 00:09 AM EDT (US)         
Don't ask about the name, I don't know.

I don't know if I will ever release the mod as there are still several things I am unsatisfied with at the moment. But allow me to tell you steadfast AoW fans a little about it, and hopefully you can provide some suggestions. No suggestion will be too silly or useless.

Most names have been changed for every race. Orc Swordsmen are now Orc Grunts, Humans are now Infantry, Elves are Glade Guard, et cetera. Same with archers and cavalry.

Another addition I've made to the generic units are some relatively useful skills. For example, at Silver every swordsman, archer, rider, and priest will acquire some type of concealment. Elves get regular Concealment, Orcs Steppe Conceal, Dwarves Underground, and so on. This is to exploit the races' inherent adaptations to their homelands. Several lvl 3 units achieve this as well.

I believe Laurentius (sp?) was the creator of some excellent units. I've incorporated many of them. This is one reason I may not release the mod--I don't have the man's permission yet.

-----

Okay, maybe this is my love of history, but I've attempted to boost the lower level units so they are a bit more useful.

Now we all know that the archers in AoW were ridiculous, and to counter this fact, Triumph gave the lvl 1 swordsmen Block. I've increased all lvl 1 warrior defence by 1. Typical warrior stats are 4 att, 3 def, 3 res, and 3 damage. It has influenced the AI that I've played to crank out a great deal more swordsman than before, even the Elfish races with their still-superb archers.

Something else Triumph attempted to fix in AoW2 was the lack of things such as Siege Towers, Ladders, and the simple grappling hook. Therefore, when a swordsman hits Gold, they get Wall Climbing. This goes for a few of the Special units as well. I.E. Highmen Spirit Puppet gets Pass Wall.

-----

I have removed the Ballista from the Race Unit Line-up, because some races over-produce them. As a result, any army going up against them would have to face a hail of Ballista bolts. That's not happy. 80% of an army should not be siege units.

In an attempt to further counter the mass-production of Siege, I have increased the cost of all siege units, except the battering ram. It seems to have helped a bit.

-----

The Halflings blow. Sorry, that's my opinion. Any ideas on helping them out?

I see the Goblins as being about even for Halflings, in stature, strength, and all that. So I lowered their HP by 1. However, Goblins reproduce like jack-rabbits, so their numbers allow for a mass of less-well-trained troops. Hence the Halflings possessing the Parry skill. So Goblins are cheaper. Is that a fair trade-off? I want your opinion.

-----

Changed several lvl 2 and 3 units around. Human Musketeer now level 2, Air Galley lvl 3, and Silver Dragon lvl 4. Air Galley has been significantly reduced in power due to this move.

Azrac Elephant lvl 3, now, gaining Battering Ram instead. Comments?

Lizards kept the Turtle Ballista and Catapult, simply because they are water-borne and racial. Sort of. However, the prices on both reflect the general increase in siege prices, as well as a small extra due to swimming.

Frostlings are relatively unchanged. Gained Winter Fox (wolf-like stats) as lvl 1 scout-type unit. Need a stronger lvl 2 unit. I plan to convert the Mammoth Rider from AoW2, it will be a tougher lvl 3 unit.

---

The Elves gained the Druid as a lvl 3 mage-class. This is only because I was in a bind, but I think I will leave him there. I've balanced the Elf Cleric to coincided with the Druid's strengths and weaknesses.

Halflings, and their Gnomish cousins, have gained the Freezer, a neat little ice-throwing contraption at lvl 2.

Dwarves are little changed: the Berserker is crazier. That's about it. I do plan to alter the cavalry into some type of Ram Rider. I just don't see Dwarves on boars...

For the moment the Highmen have gained the Pheonix as a lvl 2 flyer. This will changed as soon as I fix my converted Archon Charioteer. It wobbles and looks a little off, being AoW2, but I shall do my best. It will be lvl 3, thus negating the need for the Pheonix.

---

Undead now have Doom Bat.

Orcs have Bog Imp (lvl 2). Kept Shredder Bolt (lvl 3). Needs new lvl 4 units. I dislike the Red Dragon being in the command of Orcs.

Goblins have Cave Slug (I think, I forget). Little change.

Dark Elves have the Spider Centaur for the loss of the Shadow. Dark Mistress (Lady of Pain on Dark Unicorn) has joined the ranks, riding and seducing alongside the other lvl 2 units. LoP gains Charm at Gold (one more ATT power); the Dark Mistress has Charm, receives Dominate at Gold.

---

I'm also working on several little Builder's Guilds. Most will feature in the campaign I plan to go along with this. The maps are complete, for the most part, but I need to tinker with several other things first.

Questions, Comments, Complaints? I'd love to hear your opinions!

[This message has been edited by White Wolf (edited 06-08-2005 @ 11:00 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Accusync72
Member
posted 06-10-05 05:09 PM EDT (US)     1 / 22       
I think the darkelf changes are neat.what about haveing a minatour for the orcs as a level 2 instead of the orc heavey calvary?Or is there already a minatour in your conversion?Or maybe make a minatour race,ive always wanted to see that done.

People follow the light, blinded by just cause, but what has the light brought them? It has only caused me pain, while the darkness embraced me and kept me deep within its shadows away from my pursuers and made them suffer for their crimes against me
Into darkness, into night, amongst the shadows we shall fight!
-/X\( ++ ) /X\-L.E.D.- Hand of Malice-/X\( ++ ) /X\-
White Wolf
Member
posted 06-10-05 06:45 PM EDT (US)     2 / 22       
I actually thought about scrapping the Red Dragon in favor of the Minotaur from AoW2. I figured, Hey, Orcs follow strong leadership, and what's stronger than Orcs? Minotaurs!! So might give him over to the Orcs as a lvl 4 unit.

Depends, really. Should I tone up the Warlord for lvl 4, and give the minotaur some sort of non-orcish strengths? What they would be, I dunno. Maybe some sort of Shaman-esque attributes. Minotaurs like nature, right?

Also, working on a campaign to go along with it. Called "Touch of Frost". It's Frostling vs. Undead with a few intricacies, as well. Mostly I just want to show off a few of my favorite units.

Background: Undead need recruits. What's better for a Barracks than a mass grave? Frostlings are in the middle of religious wars, so there are plenty to find. The religious turmoil began when a peace-loving free-thinker known as Azdurain (much like Socrates) helped several lost Frostlings after a decidedly bad blizzard. They listened to him as he mended their wounds and all traveled together for a time. The Frostling authorities became scared as now-Arch-Decon Azdurain continued to preach to his 'illegitimate church of fanatics.' So they planned a mass-assassination. Those not executed were imprisoned. Azdurain just so happened to be away visiting a sick follower. He comes back with massive army, uber-pissed, and wipes out Undead and Frostlings alike. Fun stuff. In the campaign you will play as the Undead, Frostlings, and Azdurain's faction (which, sadly, will have to be Humans since they're can't be two of the same race playing. I wish I could change that.)

Anywho, I'm rambling. It won't be a big campaign, but I hope it's fun. Ciao!

Pink Floyd
Member
posted 06-11-05 04:07 AM EDT (US)     3 / 22       
This is looking pretty good. The Dark Elves are my favourite race, so I'm most interested in their changes,and I have a few small comments.

The only good thing about Shadows was Pass Wall. Well, that's what I think anyway...but, if you're replacing it with a Dark Mistress, then they're losing a (potentially) handy unit. I think that could be evened out by...oh, I don't know...giving the Incarnates Pass Wall? I mean, they don't have a physical form, so it makes sense.

I like Executioners. But I don't think that they were terrifying enough. Cause Fear perhaps?

I like the idea of a Phoenix for the Highmen, but only level two? Flying units have...well...immense power. Even if they are relatively underpowered, I think they should be level three.


A Momentary Lapse of Reason
White Wolf
Member
posted 06-11-05 04:53 PM EDT (US)     4 / 22       
Actually, the Dark Mistress is a lvl 2 unit, filling the spot where the Ballista was nuked. I replaced the Shadow with the Spider Centaur. Both are units from a unit pack that I've altered to my designs.

As for the flying lvl 2 units, several races possess them. Again, to fill the gap of the Ballista. Though I suppose I'm restricting myself to 3 lvl 3 units... I could always change that.

Example: The Dark Mistress is really a mounted Lady of Pain, with slightly reduced stats of a Dark Elf Rider (now called Shadow Runner). She stars with Charm (+1 att than Seduce) and can acheive Dominate at Gold, though being rather weak it would take some careful micromanaging to acheive this. (Also, the Spider Centaur has more combat-oriented stats than the Spider Queen.) Notice that both units are faster than your run-of-the-mill cavalry and fighting lvl 3 units. I did this for two reasons: the Dark Elves, being a (traditionally) subterranean society, would be adept at travelling underground. However, their physical stature makes it less likely that they could get around quite so easily as Dwarves or Goblins. SoI didn't give them cave-crawling. Instead I gave them speed on the surface. Secondly, the Dark Elves have no flyers. The Spiders are the key to speedy sieges while archers can do a better job of keeping those pesky drakes and eagles away.

I'd like to give each race a definitive strength and weakness, Dark Elves being speed and weak-aerial, respectively. This way it would require the player to know his race well enough, and the terrain, to pull off a grand victory.

This is mostly for my own pleasure, though giving other people joy is always pleasing in its own right.

Accusync72
Member
posted 06-11-05 05:15 PM EDT (US)     5 / 22       
id say let the orcs have the minatour instead of the the dragon.My favorite race is the Darkelves as well.I always thought the Executioner needed a little help to.Maybe give him parry or something along with the cause fear.

People follow the light, blinded by just cause, but what has the light brought them? It has only caused me pain, while the darkness embraced me and kept me deep within its shadows away from my pursuers and made them suffer for their crimes against me
Into darkness, into night, amongst the shadows we shall fight!
-/X\( ++ ) /X\-L.E.D.- Hand of Malice-/X\( ++ ) /X\-
Pink Floyd
Member
posted 06-12-05 01:13 AM EDT (US)     6 / 22       
I can see your reasoning there. Blow my argument out of the water why don't you. :P. Seriously though, those are good points. I do think that flying units should require a touch more effort to get though.

A Momentary Lapse of Reason
White Wolf
Member
posted 06-12-05 11:52 AM EDT (US)     7 / 22       
I'll see what I can do about that.

Any more suggestions, questions?

Troyer IV
Member
posted 06-21-18 09:03 PM EDT (US)     8 / 22       
Well. 13 years. And I return. Reborn, as it were, because damned if I don't have that email or login anymore, but I am the would-be modder formerly known as White Wolf.

I do doubt many are still around, but I've found myself returning again and again to this game every couple of years. And I will say that, about 4 years ago, I finally settled on a real name for the mod I have long envisioned:

Requiem.

Perhaps too late, perhaps a bit sad, but there it is. I have hopes - delusions really - that I'll be able to play this game as I once did with my brother. It is for him that I have continued work on this thing. (Though in truth he may never know.)

Or rather, restarted work on it. See, life over the course of 13 years tends to throw curve balls. I'm now into my 30s and have a kiddo who rules the roost. So I've been through a half dozen computers in that time, a college degree, and numerous Real World obstacles.

But also experiences. I do hope I am able to parlay those experiences into a well-considered mod for the core game. I've never been a fan of guilds and extra workshops, because I've always felt the core had so much untapped promise.

So. Fozzie was a name of some silly youthful fun. This is the Requiem Mod.
Ziggurat Mason
Member
posted 06-23-18 05:36 PM EDT (US)     9 / 22       
Remind me, are you one of the guys I enticed into PBEM over at GoG.com?

Anyhow, I'm very interested in modding myself - like you say, this game has significant untapped potential. Would you still be following the maxim you posted 13 years ago - each race has a clearly defined strength and weakness?

[This message has been edited by Ziggurat Mason (edited 06-23-2018 @ 05:38 PM).]

Troyer IV
Member
posted 06-23-18 06:30 PM EDT (US)     10 / 22       
That was not me. I've actually never played a PBEM game.

Yes, each race will have some clear (and subtle) strengths and weaknesses. And these goals and visions have evolved tremendously in many ways in the interim, while others have remained the same.

Archons (Highmen) have better speed and superior siege than most, along with their usual heavy-hitters, but some stat and rank shuffle mean they need to be a bit more prepared and less cocky.

Azracs have more mobility than before, and some surprises I'm still tinkering with. Gain a real flying unit, and flexibility at lower tier that isn't just an elephant Zerg rush.

Dark Elves will see some shuffled units and an introduction for a real flying unit, greatly expanding their options. They get the Shredder Bolt, too, stealing it from the Orcs.

Dwarves lose their Dirigible, losing their mobility, but making up for it in more stalwart defense and range options. Overall the toughest true racial units.

Elves get some really impressive speed, with every unit now enjoying forestry for maximum home field advantage. Extra magic, extra attacks, but still frail.

Frostlings I'm mixed on at the moment, but mostly because I want to deliver on a Mammoth, but having to restart many times and comb through years old records... Well, yeah.

Goblins are now much, much cheaper for their baseline forces, so it will be easier to mass. As well as more poison dealing potential to even the field.

Halflings get the (Gnome) Dirigible to more adequately accommodate their pint-sized stature and movement options. But they get a new warmachine, compliments of their Gnomish cousins.

Humans don't change much, really. The charlatan is empowered, the musketeer drops a tier, and the siege moves. See? They are meant to be sort of the baseline with their own style.

Orcs lose all finesse. No flying units save for level 4 dragon, assassin becomes basically a lvl 2 skirmisher, and overall the Orcs just get a refocus on brute brawn.

Saurians (Lizardmen) see lite changes, but lose the ram, so the slug gets a boost. Siege is shifted to level 3, and overall they get more than a water-washed treatment.

Undead gain the Doom Bat at level 2, see some shuffled, get slightly weakened, but still the same solid flavor and power.

ALL units save a few see an increase in HP and a drop in price. The idea being bigger battles, more survivability of lower units, and a further attempt to neuter Super Hero units.

And this is before I get into messing with the magic side of things.
Ziggurat Mason
Member
posted 06-25-18 07:28 AM EDT (US)     11 / 22       
That all sounds really good. It's devedit you're using right? I don't know if there's other data modding tools (other than for graphics)? Anyhow I will keep an eye on your mod and download it in time

I doubt you have a lack of ideas, but I had a load of ideas for a mod of my own knocking around - here are the more interesting ones. I'm sure you already did other stuff instead in many cases, but I might as well share.

Pikemen could gain ATK/DAM, lose DEF, increase in price, to differentiate from Swordsmen a bit
Actually, did you blanket buff swordsmen/blanket nerf archers? Especially in PBEM archers totally overpower swordsmen except for Orcs.
Kobolds could get Wall Climbing and Underground Concealment
What exact nerf did you deliver to Elephants? They really needed one, I'm just interested to hear how you approached it. How about switching slots with the scorpion so they need to be installed?
Sandworms could do with wallcrushing.
Scorpion, Goblin Beetle, and lizardman turtles, Basilisk could get Physical Protection for thematic reasons representing a hard shell, although I'm sure they'd need a nerf to compensate.
Yaka Avatars could do with Call Flames and some elemental immunities for thematic reasons - it *is* an avatar of the God of Fire after all. Would probably need compensatory nerfs
Beholder could get Vision II/III/IV (medals).
Lurkers could get Dominate, I saw a mod that did that and thought it was cool. Maybe also Gas Breath.
Halfling Rogues could get invisibility at gold medal as a Lotr reference. Shadows could get invisibility at base. Dark Elf swordsmen and riders could get Magic Bolts at gold medal as a Master of Magic reference.
You already mentioned buffing Charlatans, so maybe you already did some of this - but I think Vision, Magic Strike, Magic Immunity would fit.

[This message has been edited by Ziggurat Mason (edited 06-25-2018 @ 07:29 AM).]

Troyer IV
Member
posted 06-25-18 10:29 AM EDT (US)     12 / 22       
Replies in Red:
That all sounds really good. It's devedit you're using right? I don't know if there's other data modding tools (other than for graphics)? Anyhow I will keep an eye on your mod and download it in time
Yes, DevEdit and AoWCGE are likely to be my key tools.

I doubt you have a lack of ideas, but I had a load of ideas for a mod of my own knocking around - here are the more interesting ones. I'm sure you already did other stuff instead in many cases, but I might as well share.
I love opinions!

Pikemen could gain ATK/DAM, lose DEF, increase in price, to differentiate from Swordsmen a bit
Actually, I'm torn on what to do with the Pikeman, and I'll tell you why. I *could* swap it as the level 1 primary footman (and thus the swordsman as the special level 1), because spears were actually much more common than swords in the medieval record and considered useful and cheap. OR, I could leave it as the level 1 special and alter his stats a bit. I've always considered the Pikeman to be a more defensive unit, so I actually considered dropping his attack, but boosting his defense. It's likely to be one of those two options.
Actually, did you blanket buff swordsmen/blanket nerf archers? Especially in PBEM archers totally overpower swordsmen except for Orcs.
All units get +HP, excepting archers. That's part of it. I'm also considering giving swordsman a blanket +1 Defense, too.
Kobolds could get Wall Climbing and Underground Concealment
Way ahead of you
What exact nerf did you deliver to Elephants? They really needed one, I'm just interested to hear how you approached it. How about switching slots with the scorpion so they need to be installed?
I need to complete some playtests, but basically the Azracs need a reason to invest in other units. Elephants, bang for their buck, just do more and are worthier of the focus. So it's less about nerfing the elephant, but making the infantry as valuable as the elephant.
Sandworms could do with wallcrushing.
Again, already ahead of you.
Scorpion, Goblin Beetle, and lizardman turtles, Basilisk could get Physical Protection for thematic reasons representing a hard shell, although I'm sure they'd need a nerf to compensate.
Nah, unneeded. I see where you're going with it (chitin/shell armor), but that's already sort of built-in with the defense score, in my opinion.
Yaka Avatars could do with Call Flames and some elemental immunities for thematic reasons - it *is* an avatar of the God of Fire after all. Would probably need compensatory nerfs
It's funny you should mention that. The Yaka Avatar will get a nice little revamp that *should* put it more thematically as a Fire God's "avatar."
Beholder could get Vision II/III/IV (medals).
That's not a bad idea. I've been debating with how one might make the Beholder better, and I actually think giving it Dominate (instead of giving it to the Yaka Avatar, btw) makes a LOT more sense.
Lurkers could get Dominate, I saw a mod that did that and thought it was cool. Maybe also Gas Breath.
Eh. Don't know about that, personally. The Lurker strikes me as a sort of Trapdoor Spider unit. Probably slower-moving compared to others, but a serious bite from places unseen. The AoE is a neat idea, which I've considered - with several Lizardman (Saurian) units - but I've never thought Dominate worked with them. They are the lest *humanoid* of all the races, and thus unlikely to actively seek to convert enemy units. Having no units in their ranks that can Seduce/Charm/Dominate was, I think, a wise choice.
Halfling Rogues could get invisibility at gold medal as a Lotr reference.
We seem to think alike, you and I.
Shadows could get invisibility at base.
Close, but no. Shadows make sense to have Underground Concealment and (general) Concealment at start, but Invisibility might should wait for Silver or Gold. Probably Gold because I'm bumping them down to Level 2... maybe.
Dark Elf swordsmen and riders could get Magic Bolts at gold medal as a Master of Magic reference.
Dark Elves overall DO get a more magical focus, just like their like-skinned brethren on the surface.
You already mentioned buffing Charlatans, so maybe you already did some of this - but I think Vision, Magic Strike, Magic Immunity would fit.
Truth be told, I hate the Charlatan. Always have. I'm still not sure what to do with him, and he's the one Human unit I halfway want to just replace in total. But... with what? What thematically and balance-wise makes sense in that slot? I'm bumping the Musketeer to level 2, the siege to level 3, and that leaves a spot at level 3 for a magical user, sure, but the Charlatan as-is simply feels... bland and flat.

[This message has been edited by Troyer IV (edited 06-25-2018 @ 10:39 AM).]

Ziggurat Mason
Member
posted 06-25-18 04:29 PM EDT (US)     13 / 22       
In Aow2 there's a lot of cheap spearmen which are weaker and cheaper than the sword-and-board tier buddies - like the feudal levies you mention. Coming to AoW1 and seeing Pikemen as a more elite unit - they seemed more Renaissance-era, and made me think of the Swiss, or the spanish tercio. I prefer to think of them as a passive-aggressive unit, defensive only inasmuch as first strike is a deterrent, and sometimes engaging in mass charges like the Swiss did. But maybe I'm just biased because I recently read some military history from that era. The renaissance theme would fit with the Musketeer too.

If you make the Pikeman the default and the swordsman the elite, you could rename the Swordsman to Man-At-Arms. Personally I'd also give the man-at-arms physical protection but evidently that sort of thing is less to your taste.

Oh, and on the topic of feudal spearmen, I think you could get away with Goblin Spearmen having no upfront cost at all. You still have opportunity cost of not training a stronger troop from that town, and the maintenance cost.

I really disagree about elephants not needing a direct nerf. if you have other race's towns, the elephants outshine those too - they're a real nightmare in PBEM and still great vs AI (where outmaneuvring with 30 movepoint wallcrushing is less important). I love them thematically but you could double their cost and they'd still get made. That said, the rest of the Azracs could do with a touchup, I agree.

In my AoW2 mod, which I keep restarting from the beginning, I tried making an entire new class of units, - heavy "ogre" infantry with very high ATK/DAM/HP, low DEF/RES, and low movespeed. I think it'd be interesting to experiment with the Lurker - just how slow can you make it, and make it stronger at the same time, while it's still a viable/interesting part of the game? 16 movepoints? Of course this would be rather dubious and experimental, but nothing wrong with trying new stuff.

Funny, I also bumped down Shades (ie dark elf shadow, t3 infantry with concealment) to tier 2 in my aow2 mod.

I like charlatans thematically, but in terms of gameplay, I agree, it was hard to think of stuff for them. What about a sort of 'spellsword' theme with Parry, -1DEF, very high ATK, but low DAM? Or even Lightning Strike? But I guess your mod is trying to avoid typical 'modder bloat' giving everything 5 not really appropriate abilities. Uh, maybe Trail of Darkness, to fit with their theme of deceit? But Trail can be counterproductive on a concealed unit....

[This message has been edited by Ziggurat Mason (edited 06-25-2018 @ 04:32 PM).]

Troyer IV
Member
posted 06-25-18 05:22 PM EDT (US)     14 / 22       
Responses in Red.
In Aow2 there's a lot of cheap spearmen which are weaker and cheaper than the sword-and-board tier buddies - like the feudal levies you mention. Coming to AoW1 and seeing Pikemen as a more elite unit - they seemed more Renaissance-era, and made me think of the Swiss, or the spanish tercio. I prefer to think of them as a passive-aggressive unit, defensive only inasmuch as first strike is a deterrent, and sometimes engaging in mass charges like the Swiss did. But maybe I'm just biased because I recently read some military history from that era. The renaissance theme would fit with the Musketeer too.
At that point, though, I don't see them as merely level 1, special slot or not. That sounds more like level 2 at least. And, funny enough, I've something in mind for that for the Elves.

If you make the Pikeman the default and the swordsman the elite, you could rename the Swordsman to Man-At-Arms. Personally I'd also give the man-at-arms physical protection but evidently that sort of thing is less to your taste.
I'll admit, it's been a minute since I've looked at the particulars of Physical Protection. I might consider using it more, because it certainly isn't used much at all. I think maybe Dragon Slaying is used less... ha!

Oh, and on the topic of feudal spearmen, I think you could get away with Goblin Spearmen having no upfront cost at all. You still have opportunity cost of not training a stronger troop from that town, and the maintenance cost.
Nearly all units are discounted (again, thinking for larger battles here), but Goblins are *deeply* discounted. I won't say they're free, but they are certainly ridiculously cheap.

I really disagree about elephants not needing a direct nerf. if you have other race's towns, the elephants outshine those too - they're a real nightmare in PBEM and still great vs AI (where outmaneuvring with 30 movepoint wallcrushing is less important). I love them thematically but you could double their cost and they'd still get made. That said, the rest of the Azracs could do with a touchup, I agree.
Fair points. As said, I'll need to playtest some with the Azracs to see.

In my AoW2 mod, which I keep restarting from the beginning, I tried making an entire new class of units, - heavy "ogre" infantry with very high ATK/DAM/HP, low DEF/RES, and low movespeed. I think it'd be interesting to experiment with the Lurker - just how slow can you make it, and make it stronger at the same time, while it's still a viable/interesting part of the game? 16 movepoints? Of course this would be rather dubious and experimental, but nothing wrong with trying new stuff.
It's all about balance. The heavier-hitting, one has to consider dropping defense, speed, or boosting costs or somesuch. Unfortunately, in AoW1, I believe the most costly units can only be about 250 gold. Which is a real shame...

Funny, I also bumped down Shades (ie dark elf shadow, t3 infantry with concealment) to tier 2 in my aow2 mod.
It just makes sense!

I like charlatans thematically, but in terms of gameplay, I agree, it was hard to think of stuff for them. What about a sort of 'spellsword' theme with Parry, -1DEF, very high ATK, but low DAM? Or even Lightning Strike? But I guess your mod is trying to avoid typical 'modder bloat' giving everything 5 not really appropriate abilities. Uh, maybe Trail of Darkness, to fit with their theme of deceit? But Trail can be counterproductive on a concealed unit....
Well, at least glad I'm not the only one puzzled by that guy.
Ziggurat Mason
Member
posted 06-26-18 05:03 AM EDT (US)     15 / 22       
Yeah, the lack of physical protection in the base game is why I thought it'd be nice to introduce it.
Troyer IV
Member
posted 06-26-18 08:10 AM EDT (US)     16 / 22       
Hmm. I suppose it's certainly worth a try. I've simply never really played around with it. We talking just the Lvl 1 Swordsmen to keep them breathing a bit longer? Especially against archers?)
Ziggurat Mason
Member
posted 06-26-18 09:21 AM EDT (US)     17 / 22       
I was thinking just the human swordsman, if you switch it with the pike to become a more elite-styled tier 1. It might be an interesting buff for all swordsmen though - instead of any stat boost, I guess - rather like aow2's granting swordsmen Block.
Troyer IV
Member
posted 06-26-18 10:54 AM EDT (US)     18 / 22       
Definitely worth playing around with, either way.

Also, because I abhor the Dire Penguin, what are your thoughts on the Frostlings? A small part of me just hit on an idea that... could sort of work.

Frostlings are basically a Halfling-Goblin Eskimo hybrid. They're small, right? Well, Halfling level 1 specials are their Pony Riders. What if I bumped the Frostling Wolf Rider down to the Level 1 Special and replaced it with the Werewolf at level 2? Sort of a middle-point between the wolf rider and the yeti on speed and durability, giving it Regeneration to better tie in with the Raider style of the Frostlings.
Ziggurat Mason
Member
posted 06-27-18 06:50 AM EDT (US)     19 / 22       
I don't mind Penguins, but don't love em either. Agreed on maybe replacing them with wolves, like the Pony Rider. If the Goblin Wolfrider remains tier 2, maybe it could be renamed to Warg Rider or something, just to differentiate from the lesser wolf rider of the frostlings.

As for what occupies the new tier2 slot, what if Frost Witches were moved to tier 2 (with a nerf of some kind, likely stats), and werewolves we introduced as tier 3 unit, that combines wallclimbing+concealment?

Just throwing ideas out there. Your tier 2 werewolf is probably the safest bet. But the Frostwitch is the most interesting unit of the race, however I feel it gets overshadowed at tier 3 by Nordic Glows.
Troyer IV
Member
posted 06-27-18 07:04 AM EDT (US)     20 / 22       
My only concern with putting it at tier 3 is that it's then sort of competing with the Yeti. And if the Witch moves to tier 2, it's half competing with the shaman.
Ziggurat Mason
Member
posted 06-30-18 09:51 AM EDT (US)     21 / 22       
Yes, very true.
Troyer IV
Member
posted 07-02-18 05:10 PM EDT (US)     22 / 22       
I'm shelving the Frostlings for the moment. Need to reconsider how to balance their raider style of warfare. Might need an all new unit, but that's gonna be a while before I engage in that stuff...

Instead, I'm looking at the Halflings.
The Halflings are the least likely of all the races to go to war. It sort of goes against their whole raison d'Ítre. They avoid war, adventure, and generally the most violence they see is mischief in stealing the neighbor's hogs for a prank.

But they are much more community minded than most of the others, so it is with zeal if not happiness that they will March tk war to the betterment of their kith and kin. Thus they have this theme of being unprofessional, but willing to jump to if need be. And as a result, they have beastly allies that share in that symbiotic relationship.

Tier 1 - mostly the same, with minor modifications as they level.
Militia (swordsman) fairly unchanged
Slinger (unchanged)
Ram (same as most everyone's ram)
Watchman (Pony Rider) mostly unchanged

Tier 2 - almost every race will lose their standard T2 siege equipment, and the Halflings are by far the main one that abuses ballista in the 1.36 version.

Priestess (Cleric) All female to stand them apart a bit from all other races, since they would need all their fighting men in the militia.
Valesong Satyr A little bit stronger than before, with Charge and Dominate as he levels up.
Gnomish Engineers This funky thing resembles a ram with attachments, and it levels curiously; with no medal they have wall crushing and fire musket, silver gets hurl Boulder, and gold finally gets fire ballista; also might be a Builder... Not sure. New gfx needed. Need to check Laurentius' units?
Gnomish Balloon More gnomes?! Yeah, remember the Halflings are cosmopolitan with other races. This is merely the Dwarves Balloon, granting the smaller, weaker surface-dwelling Halflings more escape options.

Tier 3 - the 3rd tier is meant to really crank up the diversity, though my changes hopefully alter that earlier balance a bit. The Halfling 3rd tier is mostly unchanged.

Lightfoot Rogue - sneakier and deadlier, but also more fragile. Can lay down some serious damage, but a misstep and he's toast.
Skysentry Eagle - (eagle rider) mostly unchanged
Wildwood Centaur - brings some staying power, for sure, as well as good balanced damage and support; still can't stand up to folks like the Orc Warlord.

Tier 4 - the end

Leprechaun - perhaps one of the most boring T4 units in the game, I'm unsure how to give him more pizzazz and more purpose. The AI almost never builds them in my experience, and it's easy to see why. Hmm...


And because I feel like adding to this, but can't doiblepost, I give you the Elves:

Elves
Besides the Halflings, you should expect the Elves to be the least likely of all the races to go to war. Trade immortality for worldly riches and honors? No thanks! But if they must war, they want to keep their does off balance and at arm's length. So more maneuverability, more ranged options, and slightly more resistances help offset their physical frailty.

Tier 1 - to be one with nature, right? Then let's take it up a notch.

Glade Guard (swordsman) fairly unchanged, extra strike at higher levels
Warden (archer) rather unchanged
Dryad Sentinel essentially a Nature Elemental lite, it is an Ent that has forestry and wall crushing. All new graphic (if I can tweak it right), durable enough to serve as T2 primary siege as well. New gfx needed. Have one ready to be converted.
Water Nymph add swimming, Charm at Silver, Dominate at Gold

Tier 2 - with the Elves being more shooty than most, and less siegey, they lose the catapult, but retain a version of the ballista.

Druid (Cleric) because why the hell is a crazed old wizard in the woods a druid, but the elves have merely a cleric?
Deepwood Scout faster, faster! Gains archery at higher levels.
Longthorn the Elves are fragile things, so why do they not utilize polearms? Heavy Elf infantry with reach. New gfx needed. Just Elf swordsman w/ Human Pikeman spear, really.
Heavy Bolter ballista with marksman; New gfx needed? Thinking all racial siege should have a unique color shade...

Tier 3 - the 3rd tier is the likeliest of any race to go mostly unchanged in line-up, but rebalanced in costs and stats

Skyshroud Fairy - weaker, but more able to elude direct combat, more magical option, including magic bolts at Gold, making it a serious threat
Sylvan Ranger - about the same, I'd a little more badass as he levels
Unicorn - mostly unchanged

Tier 4 - ya know, mother nature

Nature Elemental - a little bit tougher, but overall the same beast

AND MORE!

Dwarves
Let's be real, the Dwarves are a contentious and arrogant lot, always ready to throw down, and with the stout hearts and iron constitutions to do it. As a result, they are one of the tougher races, and this will now be reflected in their army line-up. I am not sure yet if that means more defense or more HP than their counterparts, but it's going to be one or the other.

Tier 1 - Hard as nails!

Warrior (axeman) just tougher
Quarreller (archer) gonna try to change the gfx a bit to be a crossbow, just for more thematic reasons, otherwise about the same
Deepmine Drill why, oh why, were Dwarves - Lords of the Undermountain?! - pushing around wooden battering rams? Nah, this baby is a freaking tank, because Dwarves are basically masters of siege warfare by sheer virtue of living underground in veritable fortress tunnels. New gfx needed. Racial unit coloring
Berserker now faster and scarier!

Tier 2 - more or less the same as before, but with a definite trade-off in some siege options.

Runesmith (Cleric) Lighting Crackles and Snaps as this guy is just as likely to beat you down as cast magic at you.
Longbeard Tusker (Boar Rider) I *may* see if I can change the Boar to a Goat, but maybe not, too. More or less unchanged otherwise.
Bombadier good old Dwarf cannon, with Marksman now that there's no ballista for balance (?)
Irondrake (flamethrower) essentially a flamethrowing tank, with more armor than your usual flamethrower so it can stand a bit more combat than the original.New gfx needed. Racial unit coloring

Tier 3 - with the loss of the ballista and the balloon, the Dwarves need a bit more ability to stand their ground...

Hill Giant - slightly less damage output, and wall-crushing instead of hurl boulder (though he gets it at higher levels), meant to be your heavy shock trooper
Ironbreaker Mole - more or less the same
Thunderer - depending on gfx ability; the Dwarf's (rightful) predecessor to the Musketeer, supplementing the Giant's lack of immediate hurl boulder, and good fire support for the Bombadier New gfx needed. Dwarf Archer w/ Human Musket

Tier 4 - a little tricksy this one...

First Born - if I use this one, he'll remain largely unchanged

And the final Good Guys:

Archons
Being somewhat mysterious and curiously better than everyone, I perceive this to mean (in addition to their backstory) that they are attentive to all sorts of micro-detail and stupidly rigid professionalism. This is why, for example, their foot soldiers can march farther than most in a single day. This also means they are splendid in siege warfare for having studied advanced mathematics over the ages, and so forth.

Tier 1 -

Legionaire (swordsman) - about the same
Sagittari (archer) - also about the same
Capped Ram - the Archon version, second (?) best racial ram in the game New gfx needed. Racial unit coloring
Soulsworn Spirit (spirit puppet) - name change because, well, a spirit puppet makes it sound like it's an unwilling and coerced combatant, which isn't exactly "Good," eh? This guy also gets pass wall at Gold, though is otherwise weak if resistant.

Tier 2 - for these guys, unchanged. They are about the only ones to keep their T2 siege in place.

Disciple (saint) - about the same
Paladin - loses Healing, until he get Gold anyway
Scorpion - Archon version of the Ballista; slightly better than the original New gfx needed. Racial unit coloring
Mangonel - Archon version of the Catapult; also slightly better than original New gfx needed. Racial unit coloring

Tier 3 - in truth, there's little need to change up the Archon army roster too much...

Avenger - about the same, gets Wall Climbing as he levels
Valkyrie - slightly nerfed for the costs, largely so it's a) not going to outshine other racial flyers so hard, b) it doesn't give the pre-T4 Archons *everything*, and c) because it was a little bit broken.
Sun Titan - more fire!

Tier 4 - by far one of the better T4 candidates, but not without some balancing

Astra - also loses Healing at the start, but otherwise mostly the same

[This message has been edited by Troyer IV (edited 07-03-2018 @ 12:24 PM).]

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