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AoW2 Gameplay Help & Strategies
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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW2 Gameplay Help & Strategies » Wizard Tower Blues
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Topic Subject:Wizard Tower Blues
Dr Lizardo
Member
posted 07-07-01 02:04 AM EDT (US)         
I'm actually rather unhappy to see that AoW II will revert to the old MoM omnisciant Sauron like wizard in the tower. Having your leader out there and vulerable adds a lot to the game.

If that could be a Deity level evolution for the Leader, requiring him to meet several conditions to make the transition, that's exciting.

AuthorReplies:
Black Knight
Banned
posted 07-07-01 04:40 AM EDT (US)     1 / 14       
I agree, I think there could be alternative means to get what they want (a leader-off kinda game ... with the leader on!!)

For example a system where the leader is a member of a royal family - when he dies the successor takes his place (like it is in Shogun)... Leader would have to have childen occasionally ... but that would alter the day-based turn system... or before the kid turns eighteen it would be a thousand turns...

But they could just be undefined "successors" instead than specifically children.

Still something could be worked out in order to get alternative kind of leader... Halflings could elect their leadr democratically, while more magical creature would stick with an immortal leader... that would give us some new options to pick from at the beginning: the kind of government... Of course now the same old BORING people would show up in this tread and say that they don't like it and that's MUCH better use the same system ever seen in every other game blah blah blah...

[This message has been edited by Black Knight (edited 07-07-2001 @ 05:39 AM).]

Dr Lizardo
Member
posted 07-07-01 07:43 PM EDT (US)     2 / 14       
Actually, the idea of a successor is not bad, so long as your faction still has a hero succession could default to the highest level or most popular hero.

But again, the kind of omni present spell chucking deity they propose to make the leader should be something earned thru game play. This creates whole new levels of progression for the players to aspire to and puts AoW way ahead of similar games and the old MoM from which it sprang.

I'm really serious about this and I'd like to hear from other people how they feel about it.

Having multlple victory conditions, shared and faction specific victories is a related desirable change.

ChowGuy
HG Cherub
posted 07-07-01 07:56 PM EDT (US)     3 / 14       
I think you may be missing the point of the Wizard. Aside from the story aspects, the Wizard/Leader as I understand is intended to help play down, rather than enhance the invincible uber-hero killing machine aspect we tend to see in AoW 1 in favor of more reliance on basic combat units. The separate wizard then exists so that the spellcasting aspect can still be retained as well. In a sense, we already have some aspect of this, in that only the leader can research spells and accumulate mana. That spells are cast through other heroes is an anomoly, they still draw on the Leader even if he is not present. This differs from say, the HoMM series, in which each spellcasting hero has his own spell book and mana pool. All AoW2 is doing is fixing an anomoly, not changng the basic concept.

ChowGuy - The LaChoy Dragon - Servant of the Tiger and disciple of the Wanderer
The Hall of Wonders - HeavenGames Fantasy Role Playing and Creative Writing Forum
Dr Lizardo
Member
posted 07-07-01 09:00 PM EDT (US)     4 / 14       
Ahh Grasshopper, I appreciat your view and disagree.

While currently there is only one research track and all critters in in thral under the same sphere set, it is not a simple 'anomoly'. There is a substantial difference in sharing a common mana pool and research effort than in having an isolated uber-being dropping bombs from afar.

The fact is that heros will acend to what ever level of absurdity the map limits allow no matter what the nature of the Wizard. Having a body to move about makes it personal and you could still have evolution to that god like state, thus satisfying both views. Options of coporial body only, evolution and mystical presence could be made in the editor.

(by the way, what is HoMM?)

Actually, if you have a little time, I'd be interested in what you think of IDEAS I-IV.

My basic principle is that options, features and evolution are very important aspects of this kind of game and the more the better. If we eliminate the corporial leader, we lose a whole track of evolution for the character and evolutionary choices that could change the nature of the game in play.

I really want to see some guy with bare feet and a club ascend to god-hood, an arrival that doesn't end the game but opens up more possibilities.

Drop an email sometime and we can compare some notes.

Dr Lizardo
Member
posted 07-07-01 09:04 PM EDT (US)     5 / 14       
Ooops, never mind, one of my more advanced neurons just linked to the HoMM id. How embarrasing, I need an upgrade.
Mikail
Member
posted 07-08-01 11:57 AM EDT (US)     6 / 14       
Didn't someone say that the wizard doesn't have to stay in the tower. I think by him being in the tower he can affect a larger area with his magic.

I don't know about you guys, but I don't plan on sitting up in a tower shooting spells down on the dwarves, orcs, and highboys....I plan on being in their faces shooting fireballs or ice shards..hehe

Look forward to seeing little old Mikail running around the battlefield razing hell just like always.

RogerRabid
Member
(id: Roger the Rampant)
posted 08-14-01 08:00 AM EDT (US)     7 / 14       
Mikail, hopefuly you venturing down from your tower will give us a better chance to whoop your ass, boy

May your towers be trembling

BLOODYBATTLEBRAIN
Member
posted 08-18-01 09:45 AM EDT (US)     8 / 14       
Razing hell Mikail? Doesn't that mean burning down hell...? Interesting concept.

Seems I was wrong on the discussion about seaside cities....


Anyway, as I understand it, it will be incredibly difficult for the new type of leader to be anything near as tough as what we are used to.

Which is ofcouse a good thing!

Josh AoW
VIP
posted 08-18-01 12:04 PM EDT (US)     9 / 14       
In melee, expect a Wizard to go down faster than a two-dollar... ummm... faster than the Cincinatti Bengals' playoff hopes...

Wizards are definitely NOT front-line units, and anyone who tries to use them as such, will be sitting around watching the game unfold for the rest of people who still have empires.

Additionally, Heroes themselves have been tweaked for greater balance. While they are still your most powerful combat units, they are no longer nearly as able to take on large groups of enemies on their own, especially at lower levels.

Heed these words, so that your first game of AoW2 will not be a short one... :P


Josh Farley
Programmer
Triumph Studios
Aqualung
Member
posted 08-19-01 03:37 AM EDT (US)     10 / 14       
Creamed up kitten
screaming for her next injection
dead dog in the driveway
protien for infection

The most impressive restraunt
have few uninvited diners
don't worry if you're underage
we've special schemes for minors

Wizard Tower Blues

Wizard Tower Blues

TalonThorn
Member
posted 08-20-01 02:14 AM EDT (US)     11 / 14       
I actually applaud the changes to AOW2 and the move toward a more MOM-type atmosphere. I've taken these statements (rumors?) to heart, so I hope I'm not disappointed. :-/

One thing that stands out with MOM is the uber-powerful spells. They don't give you super powers over the enemy to make the game unbalanced, but they do give you a real feeling of ultimate wizards at work. That is MOM's brightest shining feature (it sure isn't the AI).

The other thing I like about it is, I really got turned off with heroes becoming the army themselves, in AOW1. I remember players talking about this and that special ability used to gain an ungodly advantage (and unbalancing the game too, I think). It will be nice to have heros be powerful only through the minions they lead, and minions without a hero still have a pretty good position in the battles to come.

Urm, HoMM = Heroes of Might and Magic (that's versions I, II, and III, but you won't see a lot of difference between the three besides depth of graphics and number of creatures to choose from).

QUESTION: Are you saying that wizards WILL be a unit on the map? This would be nice (even if they don't enter into tactical battles in person).

RogerRabid
Member
(id: Roger the Rampant)
posted 09-20-01 08:39 PM EDT (US)     12 / 14       
I always found it a little odd in AoW that all heroes fighting for the same race had the same spells, especially when you dominated an enemy hero

Unless they were already part way through casting a spell, you did not have access to any enemy spells

I would expect each hero to have their own magic that they had collected through their own personal experience and research. Perhaps that would make the magic side of the game too cumbersome

RobSF
Member
posted 09-21-01 01:16 PM EDT (US)     13 / 14       
MOM uber-heroes were much more unbalanced than even the worst of AoW uber-heroes. Anyone remember Torin the Chosen, Roland the Paladin, and/or Mortu the Black Knight? Give them the right artifacts, and those heroes could conquer the entire map single-handedly.

Revisit the old MOM heroes!

Even in the very first AoW demo, when leaders could start the game with First Strike, and Life-Stealing could steal huge amounts of hitpoints ... AoW heroes were still less powerful than their MOM counterparts. By the endgame in MOM, I would frequently have an uber-hero running all over the map and conquering everything. In AoW, I don't feel safe unless my hero has a support team of regular units to reinforce him.

Of course, MOM had a number of game-balance issues like that. Eight ultra-elite Paladins with Adamantium weapons and armor could kill anything....

Caitiff
Member
posted 09-22-01 00:13 AM EDT (US)     14 / 14       
And let us never forget the invisible flying warships. Those were always fun.
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