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AoW2 Gameplay Help & Strategies
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Topic Subject: Help SikBok
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posted 05-01-02 03:25 AM EDT (US)   
Hija,

I'm testing like mad to remove all bugs and balance issues from AOW2 ... ... I'd like to see some suggestions on what you feel I should look into ... So go ahead ... tell me ... but please ... constructive comments only ...


>>>Delete Yourself; You've got no chance to win<<<

Atari TeenAge Riot

Replies:
posted 05-02-02 09:01 PM EDT (US)     41 / 63  
Tower building would be good although now they probably should concentrate on other things.

Anyway I don't think one pioneer should just be able to make one, instead I think they should have a cost and keep the builder busy for a few turns (who makes a builder does that in order to eventually build a city so keeping it from doing that would already be a waste of time\money.)

[This message has been edited by Black Knight (edited 05-02-2002 @ 09:02 PM).]

posted 05-02-02 10:47 PM EDT (US)     42 / 63  
I'm a fan of engineers and settlers being discrete units. MOM, Kohan, and most recently CivIII *shudder* did that, and I think it added to the game...

It doesn't make much sense to make a huge segment of population go out to build roads or rebuild some building in the boonies. And engineers could get other abilities that don't make sense to settlers, like the repair machine and wall crushing, and also be able to melee (see Pipe Wrench in System Shock 2 for details).

I think the dwarves already have an engineer... but personally, I think it should be made availible to all races after building the basic "White" building, and relegate the Pioneer to building cities, and nothing else.

Making roads and towers with the engineer could have a time and monetary cost...

-Saber Cherry

posted 05-03-02 09:36 AM EDT (US)     43 / 63  
morello:
>>because your opponents are creating 3-4x as many units as you, see if you think it's still not a worthwhile investment.<<

The only one who is going to lose, time after time is YOU, morello.
At least Elquein is happy with the current poineer because it _doesn't_ allow players to build many cities. YOU, however, think you get the chance to actually build more than 75% of all the cities you own, which is simply rediculous, even with the old rules.

To make things clear to the world once and for all:

*430 gold, people!! One lousy outpost.
For that amount you can:
1)bribe 1 or even 2 settlements to join you, giving you anything between an outpost and a complete city PLUS some units.
2)build 14 crossbowmen, and with a generous 5 crossbowmen to capture one independent city this gives you three (almost).

*4 to 5 production days LOST
In that time you could have build 4 or 5 crossbowmen which is more than enough to capture one average defended independent city, which then can be anything between an outpost and a complete city.

So even if you do have the money, there are more useful ways to spend it on a generic map. Even if you have the time, it can be used far more efficently.
Remember, to earn your investment back, it takes roughly 20 days days now. A couple of troopers, used properly, earn themselves back in a matter of days.

If that wasn't enough: there's also a basic principle behind all this. Logic demands that
it is better to conquer surrounding independent cities than to found new ones, because:
*it's easier (5*30 gold instead of 430 gold)
*it is likely to be more beneficial: maybe a village instead of an outpost.
*it prevents your enemy from taking it (very important).
*it extends your military front

Logic also suggests that it's better to conquer the cities of your enemies than to make new ones because:

*you get a city
*your enemy loses one city, making the absolute difference twice as big.

In a fair fight with two equally powerful empires, the conqueror will have a bigger army, and there more likely to succeed than the defender who is wasting resources on outposts instead of troops.
The defender is therefore actually building cities only for his enemy to take them!
Just as soon as the conqueror finds out the enemy is using a _significant_ amount of resources on outposts (and even one cost of 430 gold usually is VERY significant) he must attack, and will likely win.

With three players (one settler; two expanders), it would get even BETTER! Logic suggests that both expanders should both attack the weaker settler, and try to grab as many of his rich structures as possible, before it falls into the hands of the enemy.
Because both expanders must attack the settler, because and both know it, the defender becomes then basicly twice as weak, making it free shopping for the agressors: get it while you can.

The settler always loses.

Exception to this rule is a player who starts somewhat isolated with no (or few) independent cities around to conquer. Even then, the old rules were already balanced and now, the investment is just too high.

So there. Still, cities might get build, even now and on a normal MP map, but more like one or two in the mid phase of the game, making only a slight difference.


Steel Monkey

[This message has been edited by JAT (edited 05-03-2002 @ 09:38 AM).]

posted 05-03-02 12:12 PM EDT (US)     44 / 63  
All i'm pointing out that if you refuse to build pionneers for extra cities, on the principle that they don't give you gold in due time, you will lose to a better player.

Now if the issue is you don't build them because the 4 turns to build one is not worth the investment of another town, that's a whole different story. But I doubt it.

That's my point. Complaining it's too expensive is not necessarily the smartest thing, especially when you may very well have 1000s and 1000s of gold left over around halfway through the game, and your opponent has 3 or 4 more towns then you, with a much better balance of money.

posted 05-03-02 12:17 PM EDT (US)     45 / 63  
I think Pioneers will have there use, but only on the larger maps during long games. When you and your opponents are fairly entreched and at a stalemate, the only way you may be able to get the upperhand is by adding new cities to your empire. I can see there use here, but not in smaller games. But I don't think that's a bad idea. I kind of like it that way.
posted 05-03-02 10:54 PM EDT (US)     46 / 63  

Sikbok : B U G

When a AI unit enter the Haste berry Tree it looks like it has got the fruit, but it's not resetting its speed immediately. i am not sure wether in the following turns it uses the extra speed, but in the very turns it gets it it does not, that's for sure.

(I have seen it happen twice in two different games)

[This message has been edited by Black Knight (edited 05-03-2002 @ 11:02 PM).]

posted 05-06-02 03:30 AM EDT (US)     47 / 63  
THNX all ... not that you've made my job any easier ... but that wasn't the point anyway ... I'll try to look into as many of the "bugs" as possible ...

And ... Arnout ... egh ... Hou je Kop joh ...


>>>Delete Yourself; You've got no chance to win<<<

Atari TeenAge Riot

posted 05-06-02 07:00 AM EDT (US)     48 / 63  
>>THNX all ... not that you've made my job any easier ... but that wasn't the point anyway ... I'll try to look into as many of the "bugs" as possible ...<<

Thanks? Thanks for nothing. We, myself included, basicly hijacked your thread. I realise we should've gone and continue the pioneer discussion somewhere else.
Sorry.


Steel Monkey
posted 05-06-02 02:51 PM EDT (US)     49 / 63  
umm... it was posted a while ago in this topic , BUT,

#3 is a VERY VALID POINT!!!!

i also like the new pioneer, but think the cost for a new city is a little high...

10 hexes is enough when you consider there are ALOT of places on a map naturally where you can not build a city because of geography anyway.

and according to Josh,

building towers is something they want to implamnet, but it MAY NOT make it into the game in time for release.

posted 05-06-02 06:42 PM EDT (US)     50 / 63  
It has been shown that holy bolt does fire damage and black bolt also does physical damage.Josh is aware of these issues and is correcting themn.

Maybe you could test them again and also test the other kind of bolts to make sure they only do the type of damage that they are supposed to.

ie. Magic bolts do only magical damage etc.

Crash
Whoever says that being a game tester is easy has never tried it


Honoured member and Doughnut supplier of BTOOIC
posted 05-07-02 07:17 AM EDT (US)     51 / 63  
egh... sikbok houd je kop?? ga testen!! Ook die 2 nieuwe advanced features!
posted 05-07-02 08:16 AM EDT (US)     52 / 63  
Welke nieuwe advanced features?
posted 05-07-02 08:31 AM EDT (US)     53 / 63  
Hoe, nou wordt ik ook wel nieuwsgierig. Can you tell us more about it SikBok, or Wazzz maybe? Pleazz?

A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.
posted 05-07-02 09:38 AM EDT (US)     54 / 63  
Yes, what two new advanced features?

Why don't you come over to the new BTOOIC Bay Hotel at the retaken Valley of Wonders and we'll have a nice talk? Hehe..

(same password)

()



Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
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Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 05-07-02 09:40 AM EDT (US)     55 / 63  
Fisenflycht and Bobcat I was referring to the teleport and build outposts advanced options!
posted 05-07-02 09:59 AM EDT (US)     56 / 63  
Oh, just teleports...
I thought you were talking about some new, hot issue, not that old insignificant detail, but thanks anyway...
posted 05-07-02 11:16 AM EDT (US)     57 / 63  
Teleports and build outpost advanced options, hmmm... Interesting. *comes in with a plate full of donuts* Hey Arnout and Sikbok, how about a nice mind alte - errr, jelly donut?

"I wanna be Sultan instead of the Sultan!" - Grand Vizier Iznoghoud, 2nd and honoured member of the BTOOIC (Buildable Teleporters Off Option in Cities)
Admin of the BTOOIC site and forum.
posted 05-07-02 11:53 AM EDT (US)     58 / 63  
Hehe well we thought it was a hot issue; buildable Teleporters Off Option in Cities. Remove it again??

[This message has been edited by Arnout (edited 05-07-2002 @ 11:53 AM).]

posted 05-07-02 12:29 PM EDT (US)     59 / 63  
Yup, I suggest that you remove it. Or at least make it possible to disable this optional off option with a new option… I will probably need a ‘turn BTOOIC gloating off option’ too, when these guys realise what you have done.

[This message has been edited by Fisenflycht (edited 05-07-2002 @ 12:32 PM).]

posted 05-07-02 12:33 PM EDT (US)     60 / 63  
Hmmm, it looks like the mind-altering donuts are working... A direct response about "Advanced features" from a Dev... But wait... What did he say... Buildable Teleporters Off Option in Cities??? Removing it again? Nah, he wouldn't...

BTOOIC members rejoice! The Devs are testing a Buildable Teleporters Off Option in Cities!


"I wanna be Sultan instead of the Sultan!" - Grand Vizier Iznoghoud, 2nd and honoured member of the BTOOIC (Buildable Teleporters Off Option in Cities)
Admin of the BTOOIC site and forum.

[This message has been edited by Iznoghoud (edited 05-07-2002 @ 12:34 PM).]

posted 05-07-02 05:46 PM EDT (US)     61 / 63  

Quote:

Hehe well we thought it was a hot issue; buildable Teleporters Off Option in Cities. Remove it again??


You were kidding, right?!
DO NOT REMOVE IT!!!!!
I repeat, do NOT remove it!!!!
because if you do, I'm going to...to...

*looses his breath, passes out*

*wakes up*

what was I doing? oh, right, now I remember it...
I'm going to...!

*passes out again*


Tell me, Lucifer Morningstar... Ask yourselves, all of you... What power would Hell have if those here imprisoned were not able to dream of Heaven?
posted 05-12-02 03:22 PM EDT (US)     62 / 63  
*BK enters covered in sweat with still a few flyers saying "Join BTOOIC" in his hands, the leftover of a long day of campaining*...

"Uh? Anything new today? Whay is everyone looking at me?"

*Everyone stares at him. Then someone tells him.*

*He starts crying*

posted 05-12-02 03:57 PM EDT (US)     63 / 63  
LOL! I appreciate your hard work of campaigning for BTOOIC though.

"I wanna be Sultan instead of the Sultan!" - Grand Vizier Iznoghoud, 2nd and honoured member of the BTOOIC (Buildable Teleporters Off Option in Cities)
Admin of the BTOOIC site and forum.
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