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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW1 General Discussion & Strategies » What is the incarnate/archer cheat
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Topic Subject:What is the incarnate/archer cheat
RogerRabid
Member
(id: Roger the Rampant)
posted 09-10-01 05:44 AM EDT (US)         
please? I haven't heard it mentioned before
AuthorReplies:
Angel Draco
HG Lawgiver
posted 09-10-01 08:58 AM EDT (US)     1 / 24       
It's not really a "cheat," just a strategy. I think Frogman (the Incarnate king) invented it.

Basically, your incarnate can cause a lot of damage against troops with no magic strike as they're physically invulnerable. Their real boon though, is when the possess a unit with movement points, as they can use those movement points to move onto another enemy and kill them, then take those movement points and move on to another enemy....and so on.

I think Frogman mopped up an entire race in just one turn once, since he was just hopping from body to body.

However, the incarnate doesn't have an "unpossess" skill, so if he's stuck in the body of a dwarven axeman, he's stuck in that body until something kills the axeman's body so the incarnate can escape and move on. While the incarnate may have floating and passwall abilitiy, it is limited to the skills of the host body.

So, the best way to ditch that axeman's body is to disband one of your archers and have the incarnate attack it.

The arche will kill the incarnate's host body (the axeman) and then the incarnate is free to once again wreck havok.

Sir Crashalot
Member
posted 09-10-01 09:05 AM EDT (US)     2 / 24       
HeHe

I was just about to ask that.

Crash

ShadowsOasis
Member
posted 09-10-01 05:31 PM EDT (US)     3 / 24       
the "incarnate cheat" is actually just a way to get your incarnate around the map very quickly, like Draco said, get some archers, disband em every space and so, and when your incarnate does come out, you can hop em from body to body all the way across the map in that one turn where he'll really cause the damage , problem is setting the archer distance up, but that isnt that hard, just a pain IMO

People follow the light, blinded by just cause, but what has the light brought them? It has only caused me pain, while the darkness embraced me and kept me deep within its shadows away from my pursuers and made them suffer for their crimes against me

Into darkness, into night, amoungst the shadows we shall fight

Kris Lighthawk
Member
posted 09-11-01 02:09 AM EDT (US)     4 / 24       
"While the incarnate may have floating and passwall abilitiy"

Incarnates don't have passwall abilitiy.

Kris

Frogman
Member
posted 09-14-01 06:36 PM EDT (US)     5 / 24       
I find razing buildings is also a good way to generate units to rid an unwanted shell.

[This message has been edited by Frogman (edited 09-14-2001 @ 06:44 PM).]

Black Knight
Banned
posted 09-17-01 09:46 AM EDT (US)     6 / 24       
personally I am having a lot of fun using the Incarnate that way,but I don't feel it's supposed to be like that... Also there is a bug when trying to possess a wraith -

Wraiths can usually be possesed (which doesn't make much sense, in fact)... unless you are already in someone's body! In fact I have a possessed archer which is trying to attack a wraith but cannot even enter the battle because in normal conditions it could not hurt him...

But now that in fact he is an Incarnate in an archer's body it should be allowed to enter the battle since it could indeed possess him!!

RogerRabid
Member
(id: Roger the Rampant)
posted 09-17-01 09:53 AM EDT (US)     7 / 24       
Sorry Black Knight but I have to disagree with you on this one. A great advantage of the incarnate is that you take on the abilities of the possessed, so if you possess a dwarf mole for example your incarnate can tunnel through earth

Surely it is fair that in return the incarnate gives up the usual qualities of an incarnate??

Caitiff
Member
posted 09-17-01 12:19 PM EDT (US)     8 / 24       
You're both wrong.

Incarnates can possess a wraith directly. I've done it several times.

However, the computer should recognize the possess ability and allow a possessed archer the chance to attack a wraith, rather than see that no magic attack is there to do damage.

The incarnate does give up some things when it possesses something. It probably can't float anymore. It's movement is limited to the pace of its host. It can still transfer bodies and possessing out of one into another, but I don't think magical enhancements transfer to the host, meaning that if I haste an incarnate, it's new host won't be hasted when possessed. I'm not sure about this last part though, since I've not used incarnates enough to practice.

Frogman
Member
posted 09-18-01 00:20 AM EDT (US)     9 / 24       
You are right Caitiff, the host will not pick up any enchantments from the incarnate. I believe the bug about the possessed archer not being able to enter into combat with a wraith is probably right. Once you get into tc combat you can possess the wraith directly, or just kill it outright once the wraith kills the archer shell.

Interestingly, an incarnate only gains experience by possessing a unit or killing a unit as an incarnate. Otherwise the experience points go the the shell. So you can have a gold medal incarnate in an unmedaled shell or you can have an unmedaled incarnate in a gold medal shell.

Caitiff
Member
posted 09-18-01 10:37 AM EDT (US)     10 / 24       
Frogman,

Have you observed whether or not incarnates retain enchantments after leaving a host? If I give it stone skin and it possesses a swordsman, I know the swordsman won't have it, but will the incarnate still have it when the swordsman is killed?

Black Knight
Banned
posted 09-18-01 12:31 PM EDT (US)     11 / 24       
Regarding this I have noticed another bug, I am not sure wether it only regards incarnates or not:

Incarnate possess a hero -
I put an enchantment on the hero
The hero gets killed
The incarnate doesn't have the enchantment anymore

BUT

The enchantment is still present in the list of my active spells and it is sucking up mana from my reserve anyway and it has to be manually disactivated!!

I have just noticed that, and I am not sure wether it is a bug that has only to do with incarnates.

Nojd
Member
posted 09-18-01 12:44 PM EDT (US)     12 / 24       
That's a bug with heroes in general. Spells can continue to cost upkeep on a killed hero, or they can pause for a number of turns and then suddenly start to cost upkeep.

As soon as the spells has been manually cancelled, they're removed for good. An extra inconvenience is that the spells can only be removed when they are costing upkeep, so it may not be enough to check the spells tab immediately after your hero dies.

[This message has been edited by Nojd (edited 09-18-2001 @ 12:44 PM).]

Frogman
Member
posted 09-19-01 00:49 AM EDT (US)     13 / 24       
Caitiff, I believe the incarnate will not take any enchantments that are on the host. The incarnate virtually disappears while it is inside the host. It gains no experience and its enchantments do not show up on the host. An incarnate can possess enenmy units that are enchanted by the enemy and if its the ai or a human who doesn't check the spells will continue to be supported with your enemies mana. They do not transfer to the incarnate when the host dies though.
Cay
Member
posted 09-19-01 10:40 AM EDT (US)     14 / 24       
But I think Caitifff was asking:

What if the Incarnate has an enchantment BEFORE possessing the host? The enchantment of course disappears from our view while the host is alive, but after the host is killed does the Incarnate retain (regain) the enchantment?

-Cay


Cay
CayMack on Xbox LIVE, PlayStation Network, and Steam. CayMack#1436 on BattleNet.
Visit: TrueAchievements|TrueTrophies
Aqualung
Member
posted 09-19-01 09:37 PM EDT (US)     15 / 24       
I sent a wad of Incarnates after the Lizards on After the Fall. Through a Wizard's Tower, he had Summon Fire Elemental. He had hordes of them (on that little island near his start... wads of FE's and 2 small cities).

Anyway, my Incarnates posessed 6 Fire Elementals before I killed the Lizard Leader... All of them dissapeared!

Another time, in the Campaign, I posessed the Elven Leader's summoned Water Elemental. When I won that game, I was offered the chance to take the WE over. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough points (I had to take my hero), so I can't say if the Incarnate would still have been inside it.

Frogman
Member
posted 09-20-01 00:34 AM EDT (US)     16 / 24       
Yes, an incarnate will retain any enchantments he had prior to possessing another unit. If your going to camp out in a hero or some other unit for an extended time, you should remove your enchantments.

EDIT, I was wrong, an incarnate loses his enchantments upon losing his shell. I just had it happen. Enchanted weapon prior to possession, possessed a unit, lost the shell, and the incarnate lost enchanted weapon on the same day I cast it.

[This message has been edited by Frogman (edited 10-01-2001 @ 10:32 PM).]

Alphax
Member
posted 10-11-01 06:50 AM EDT (US)     17 / 24       
Try this one:

1. Possess a hero.
2. Get the hero killed.
3. Resurrect or animate the hero.

The resurected/animated hero is possessed! But your Incarnate is still yours! Qu'est que e?


===================================== Alphax =====================================
============= LASFS Operative #4 =============
The VoW Inn
"I'll bribe you to change the inn link in your sig." -- TDK
================================================================================
Frogman
Member
posted 10-11-01 07:51 PM EDT (US)     18 / 24       
Resurrect hero is not that reliable to be able to raise a dead hero. Also, unless it is of the proper alignment, it won't offer to join you at all at any price. The advantage of possess is that your new hero will not have morale problems. Your plan is just not workable.
Alphax
Member
posted 06-30-04 09:57 AM EDT (US)     19 / 24       
Ahh.. old thread...

Yes, the Incarnate/hero thing... IIRC I was not trying to get a new hero, but I managed to generate another incarnate, because the hero was possessed, so there was an incarnate in it, but I got mine back after the hero died! I know ressurect hero/animate hero doesn't work, I was testing it with the cheats.


===================================== Alphax =====================================
============= LASFS Operative #4 =============
The VoW Inn
"I'll bribe you to change the inn link in your sig." -- TDK
================================================================================
Strategic Fox
Member
posted 06-09-05 08:35 PM EDT (US)     20 / 24       
There is another bug. Every so often an incarnate loses its medals after leaving a host. It doesn't make a big difference since it can regain them quickly.
A Qatigattuusara
Member
(id: Dvorak)
posted 06-10-05 02:50 PM EDT (US)     21 / 24       
The spell upkeep being left on dead heroes might mean that they keep them on resurrection - this is supported by the hero still being posessed when resurrected.
Alphax: Qu'est que e? Qu'est-ce que c'est?
Alphax
Member
posted 06-11-05 00:58 AM EDT (US)     22 / 24       
I have no idea, I posted that 4 years ago.

===================================== Alphax =====================================
============= LASFS Operative #4 =============
The VoW Inn
"I'll bribe you to change the inn link in your sig." -- TDK
================================================================================
Strategic Fox
Member
posted 06-11-05 08:06 AM EDT (US)     23 / 24       
Well, the thread was only originally about the incarnate/archer technique (that one is rather easy to figure out - abusing the archers as transport vehicles). So it soon turned into a discussion of the incarnate bugs - and there are lots of those. I just pointed out that there is another incarnate bug and Strauss reread that thing about getting an extra hero after resurrecting a killed one that was previously possessed.

There seems to be a general inability of the program of properly keeping track of an incarnates attributes (having to deal with the attributes of the host as well).

What I came across was the incarnate losing its medals in the endscenrio of the campaign when he was mopping up amongst the humans. There was a big battle with three stacks of humans and with three priests in them. So I had to try to get the incarnates hitpoints back up by possessing units. I remember that the incarnate was very low on hitpoints when possessing the last priest. I think it was after that that he lost his gold medal when he left the host again. But I have seen it happen several times. Not only with low hitpoints on possessing.

Also if it does keep the gold medal it only has 10 out of 12 hitpoints when it leaves the host again. The program just generally brings him up to 10 hitpoints and takes no regard of the medals that he has. So it's actually not surprising if he loses the medals alltogether when leaving a host every so often.

IniochReborn
Member
posted 05-23-18 06:08 PM EDT (US)     24 / 24       
Not being able to attack a Wraith with a possessed Archer isn't a bug... The reason being that neither a defending AI nor a Human player would ever want to attack the possessed unit with their Wraith. They would just wait and end their turn until you abandoned the Tactical battle. It's the same principle as not being able to attack Walls if you can't breach them. Unless the other player rushes out for no reason, the battle would never end.
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